Knot Sites

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Auxillary Coast Guard site i don't think i see listed.

Also i got my copy of Ashley book of Knots from Walmart.Com $46 instead of $75, after Tom and Tim saying like everyone should have it... ; that is darn good classic; that noone has been able to come close to the work, comprehensiveness of this volume. Lots of decorative knots, all 3900 knots aren't working knots, but a wealth of examples, proper terms, history etc.

Big, with enough pictures, short descriptions to make light reading or thumbing thru. i think better on coffe table than a lot of books ya might see for that purpose.
 
Does anyone else here see what I see when I think about that Black Panther Org. website for knots?
 
Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder
MyTreeLessons.Com Friction Hitch Page

Good show! Thanks for alerting me to this. :)
Let me contribute some thoughts etc. to this fine effort.

"Kleim" => "Klem" --bump the count of CORRECT names over the wrong.
(Maybe it was your cited "climbing" site's mistake you're echoing. Note though that that site includes a revealing hint:

> The Kreutzklem name (cross-clamp) was applied because the original inventor
> (Chet Hedden) got lost somewhere along the way

Chet didn't get lost, but the re-namers did. In the German one can see how "Klem" fits (and it's not "kleim")--a key term for a set of gripping knots, I think! ("klemnottens")

And, of course: 'Heden' => 'Heddon'. And you tuck out through the lower bight in the opposite direction to Chet (cf. e.g. Clyde Soles's Outdoor Knots Book. As for the Klemheist, I don't know why it's typically pictured with the
SParts reaching up to get the opposite bight, 'cause instant it's loaded, bingo, the bight comes down & around!? --a way of setting it, maybe, but kinda misleading.

"Stevedore" => "Fig.9"--the former has yet one more half turn (aka "Fig.10")--you got Ashley & Day, check! :blob2:
(Btw, Ashley's Stopper (aka "Oysterman's", but it isn't that) is a good one to promulgate--quickly formed, secure, and a wonderful 3-sided stopper face! Need a bigger one still? --tie it w/doubled rope!


The Anchor is a dependable, self trap of a Round Turn
sitting on it's own tail. Very clean and simple, positive lock!
In your photo of the knot tied around a limb, one can see a danger in it: were the tyer on the left, and setting the hitch towards the left, the initial load downwards
would mostly pull out the nipped end--for there'd not be sufficient tension
on the round turn yet! (I surmise that this is why one knot-strength data of old shows this hitch as
stronger than 2-Half-Hitches on larger dia objects,
though weaker on a ring (slightly, in both cases): the SPart is able to pull out the end's collar to run more nearly
straight around the large object, whereas the 2HH will sooner bind/hold and begin weakening.

The Constridor is so secure, it is trustable in its slipped form, too
A better knot qua hitch is formed by bringing the end OVER the crossing turn and then tucking it out under the SPart
--go away from the knot for the Groundline H., or into the knot (as for Constrictor) for a surer, stabler knot (Ashley's #1688? (recall)).
A 2nd turn before this finish gets you the "Double" of either C. or my suggestion.
An advantage to the knot described is that hauling back/away on the end can help pry out some SPart and enable loosening;
with the Constrictor, you need to jerk either end a bit up & away to
try to get some gain of material.

... so that the break before the primary bend is a result of back pressure ...
Hmmm!? What gives you the idea that the break in fact IS before the bend? This doesn't make sense to me. :confused:
[And, consequently, I get to employ another one of those smilies! :-]

Well, you've given a lot to look over and think about, thanks.

--Knots in the Knude
 
Originally posted by knudeNoggin
> (Chet Hedden) got lost somewhere along the way ...

And, of course: 'Heden' => 'Heddon'.

Of course NOT (ooooops :rolleyes: )--my fingers betray me, again with this mistake!
=> 'Hedden'.
(But then "Prussik" => "Prusik', --single consonant-- and ... .)

:)
 
Wellllllllllllllll Knude one,


i guess i can handle that;

Just finally sprung for ABOK, found a deal at Walmart.com that i listed on site, for years Cyrus Day's "The Art of Knotting and Splicing" by the Navy institute press, plus some climber's usualties, Brion Toss; sopme of the names are different.

Stevedore for sure(gonna redo that section, and prolly all of it fro one reason or another); i do have oysterman, thaought that was going a lilfar, but it is probably properly illustrative and complete...

Not sure which limb thing ya meant, but i know ith the angles of pulls, camera anlges, self trapping representation some got lost etc.; next time gonna do all in smaller stuff (white 3 strand was this 1" stuff trying to get across this strength idea).

Have to look up that quo hitch dealy for sure!

Breaking before the bend is what i always see; when such things have happened. i have the imagery that at high loading the nylon fibers become more glass like (strong but stiff), and the flexing into the inital bend is peritnent to strength, in that is most leveraged point of load to bend, and break seems to me to come about where i would imagine the 'glass ' fibers 'back pressure' inital bend hitting the inside of the rope 'tube' a few inches before the bend's inital sharpness. So, knots have more of a fixed strength, hitches, primary arc is dependant on what they are mounted on.

i think a knot like a barrel that has a coil, the loops around ad stretches through that coil, takes dynamic loads better, has a shock system in it to an extent. i think this is a plus of the DBY over single ring bowline, also the softer inital arc that reaches over a ring instead of loading directly like a single turn bowline. Static properties are never the whole story!


Thanks for the entymology, will prolly check with ya about proper names and whom they relate too in futre re-vision; so stay around longer this time!;) i found from reading Tom's link that foreign words in drawings don't get crunched through the translator like text on a page, so look to be removing words form drawings, and presenting on pages anyway, to handle that potential problem on this end.


Thanx,
-KC
:alien:
 
Just finally sprung for ABOK, found a deal at Walmart.com that i listed on site, for years Cyrus Day's "The Art of Knotting and Splicing" by the Navy institute press, plus some climber's usualties, Brion Toss; sopme of the names are different.
Day is pretty good. OTOH, another old book w/loads of "knots" often cited,
Encyclopedia of Knots & Fancy Ropework is incredibly lousy
--unless one likes looking at lots of decorative stuff.
Stevedore for sure(gonna redo that section, and prolly all of it fro one reason or another); i do have oysterman, thaought that was going a lilfar, but it is probably properly illustrative and complete...
In stoppers one had various needs: simplicity, ability to be drawn up
snug against surface, bulk, assured staying tied, ease of UNtying.
If you're tying off the end of some whipping or seizing, e.g.,
the Overhand stopper is easiest to set tight against whatever: one can
get it pretty snug against the surface by tying, and then using some
thin/needle/forcep pliers forked on either side of the end,
and another thin-nosed pliers to nip and turn-tighten that end,
set the knot both more snug and of course ???? tight.
--probably the hardest knot to untie is a jammed Overhand: there is just
so little material to get any purchase into, any give from!
A Fig.8 in such an up-snug-against application doesn't cut it.

The Ashley's Stopper (prefer this to "Oysterman", as that name though
given by the knot's *inventer*, is wrong in implication) can be tied
easily and pretty tightly, hauling hard to set the Overhand component
before drawing down the SPart to nip the end. There are some other
stoppers that work pretty well to stay tied.

Have to look up that quo hitch dealy for sure!
Oh, that was a "qua" as in "as": the Constrictor is best as a binder
--both ends untensioned--; qua hitch, it gets distorted (indeed, it's one way
to loosen it for untying).
Now, my recall was wrong: #1674 (#1244) is the knot I described.
(#1688 is a too poorly known hook hitch, formable in the bight
--which Ashley didn't mention.)
Breaking before the bend is what i always see
Hmmm, in 3-strand laid rope breaks that I've seen the results of,
it appears that the strand that breaks (it is usually one, sometimes
two, strands that break on a slow-pull, and then the loading
is stopped) is the one under greatest COMPRESSION at the point
of rupture. It isn't those on the outside of the bend, as is often conjectured.
(I'd sure like to see some good work done to really address this
question!) Breaking away from the bend seems to question how variance
in the bend can affect strength (why one knot is stronger than another,
or stronger in one rope than another).
Btw, a good thing to picture in your shots of various knots re strength
is LOADED knots--you likely can get some decent shots of the knots holding
a sizeable chunk o'wood, and it's THERE that things matter (what appears
bent after tying can change a lot with the load). Oh, and that Clove H.
around the trailor hitch wrongly brings the loaded part high on the ball,
gaining dangerous leverage.

--knudenoggin
 
Good Deal....

i was refrencing braids breaking, i think the mechanics of 3 strand isolating each of the strands to hockle perhaps then break would be different.

Overhand is tightest leveraged arc seating in work, and gives less leverage to re-lease i think of it as.


Thanx,
lots of werk to do.

The Cyrus Day Book can be had for $10 used on link on climber's hitches page of site (refrenced in signature); 2 other books listed that are very good for knots, are free full book size downloads; excellent examinations by mountaineer/rescue men of these same or similar knots and strategies that we use. Namely the "Life on a Line" Download (knots start on pge 26 in part 1, 2 and 3 have rig discussions) and "Industrail Rope Access" pg 91.
But both cover cams, anchors, ropes etc.

Edit: Check your messages here pleaz knude one!
 
Last edited:
The Bachman site that Tom sited, now has text that a translator can negotiate. Also, on the drop down box on the main page, there are 3 pages of Bachman friction hitches; but to go to them, the translator must be off/ or set to original language, then go to the page and turn translator back on to see the Swiss inventor's hitches that brave the rigors of ice and snow ont he lines.

Another link Tom just posted to led me to these similar strategies and a flood of climbing toys for mountain rescue, with all kinds of pictures to id gear etc.

Display at a Glance ShowRoom
 

Latest posts

Back
Top