Lanscapers I hope you don't LEARN your TREES !

[talcott]

been at it for awhile

hello

i started doing line work in 1967 and i am still at it. i have done a little line clearance work and it can be dangerous at times.

i work for a rural electric now and cut almost daily and work by myself. rus specs state that any trees that can get into the primary lines that are within 15' of either side of the line must be removed. sometimes you run into a problem with land owners. "can't you just trim it?" you have to trim a mininum of 10' back from the line. you end up side trimming and just cutting a hole or pathway through the tree depending on the circumstances.

it is pretty damn hard to make it look good!

i do not like the way it looks but if you try to kind of form the crown up to make it look good...i have at times got some real unhappy landowners.

my job is to clear the line and i try to explain to the people that our project is 120 miles across from coner to corner and it is my job to try to keep the trees out of the line and to get their power on. i also tell them that those trees can cause major power outages and can start fires.

i kinda hint that we want to keep the rates down and it would be very costly to have to constantly trim and that they should be removed.

it is pretty damn hard to trim the same tree every so many years to keep it out of the power lines and to make it look good.

yeah...i get my Irish azz chewed out on a regular basis.

do you want lights or do you want trees?

i just do the bestest job that i can.

talcott

 

[grizzly2]

I'm rather confused by all the banter on this post. I understand that the topic morphed from being about landscaper, designer, and homeowner knowledge and placement to being about line clearance. OK, that's what conversations do. What I'm confused about is how some people consider their job of tree work to be vastly more dangerous than the other jobs involving tree work. What we need to remember is that tree work is dangerous, no matter what. Yes, the utility guys have to worry about lines and getting electrocuted, that's a major hazard. But, what about the residential/commercial arborist who is worried about climbing Mrs. Johnson's 90 foot N. red oak, that her grandfather planted and must be saved and made to last for another 50 years, despite the large cavity at the base? You know, if arboriculture was a pissing contest, we'd all be wet. Respect the other facets of this industry, work together, and we can all benefit from it. Furthermore, line clearance guys might have to strip out half a tree, what shows poor work to me is when they do this and leave large stubs and just bad cuts. Not the overall appearance of the tree, the appearance of the work. Also, for those that feel ISA Certified Arborists are a joke, or not worth the time, then what do you recommend? Maybe we should just go back to the times when a pick-up and a chainsaw made you a 'knowing professional.'

 

[clearance]

What I'm confused about is how some people consider their job of tree work to be vastly more dangerous than the other jobs involving tree work. What we need to remember is that tree work is dangerous, no matter what. Yes, the utility guys have to worry about lines and getting electrocuted, that's a major hazard. But, what about the residential/commercial arborist who is worried about climbing Mrs. Johnson's 90 foot N. red oak, that her grandfather planted and must be saved and made to last for another 50 years, despite the large cavity at the base?

I'll clear up some confusion for you, the power must stay on, or our society collapses, think about it. Mrs. Johnsons oak tree should be cut down if its that dangerous, where do you get this "must be saved" b.s. from? Who says, the customer? Let me put it this way, if you risk your life to save a tree, you are an idiot. Your comparison doesn't make sense.

 

[kennertree]

I'll clear up some confusion for you, the power must stay on, or our society collapses, think about it. Mrs. Johnsons oak tree should be cut down if its that dangerous, where do you get this "must be saved" b.s. from? Who says, the customer? Let me put it this way, if you risk your life to save a tree, you are an idiot. Your comparison doesn't make sense.

I've done line clearing and residential work. Both are dangerous so I can't argue which is more dangerous or who is better, that makes no difference. You said if you risk your life to save a tree you are an idiot. Wouldnt that make us all idiots? Have you ever risked your life to cut a tree down? Anytime we go up a tree to save it or to kill it we are risking are lives.

 

[clearance]

I've done line clearing and residential work. Both are dangerous so I can't argue which is more dangerous or who is better, that makes no difference. You said if you risk your life to save a tree you are an idiot. Wouldnt that make us all idiots? Have you ever risked your life to cut a tree down? Anytime we go up a tree to save it or to kill it we are risking are lives.

I think you know what I mean, I am talking about climbing hazardous trees that are unsafe, not the day to day dangers, saws, falls, electrocution etc. that are present with every tree.

 

[kennertree]

I think you know what I mean, I am talking about climbing hazardous trees that are unsafe, not the day to day dangers, saws, falls, electrocution etc. that are present with every tree.

I'm just pickin at ya, but have you ever removed a tree that had a major trunk defect where no equipment could get to it? I have, I'll call myself an idiot. Luckily it turned out ok and I'm still here. Now that I'm getting older safety is becoming more of an issue. I guess when you're young you dont realize as much. That's one good thing about getting older is that you get wiser.

 

[clearance]

I'm just pickin at ya, but have you ever removed a tree that had a major trunk defect where no equipment could get to it? I have, I'll call myself an idiot. Luckily it turned out ok and I'm still here. Now that I'm getting older safety is becoming more of an issue. I guess when you're young you dont realize as much. That's one good thing about getting older is that you get wiser.

Yeah, I have climbed some sketchy trees as well, and sawed them down. What this chap is speaking of is climbing a danger tree and preserving it, exactly the kind of thing some ISA guys do, instead of cutting it down.

 

[kennertree]

Yeah, I have climbed some sketchy trees as well, and sawed them down. What this chap is speaking of is climbing a danger tree and preserving it, exactly the kind of thing some ISA guys do, instead of cutting it down.

Some trees are worth saving. If its too dangerous to climb its probably not worth saving or can't be saved. If it can't hold the weight of a climber it wont hold the wind load.

 

[treeseer]

Yeah, I have climbed some sketchy trees as well, and sawed them down. What this chap is speaking of is climbing a danger tree and preserving it, exactly the kind of thing some ISA guys do, instead of cutting it down.

Yup, that's us! :rockn:

Just one detail to clarify--us "ISA guys" carefully assess tree risk and act accordingly. We don't throw out phrases like "danger tree" and "hazard" without inspecting and communicating tree risk before decisions are made.

Us "ISA guys" try not to shoot our mouths off before our brains are loaded. And most of us do not live in BC where trees are plenty, and grow like crazy.

Tree owners decide how much tree risk they will accept, depending on: how much they value the tree, what condition the tree is in, and how much they value the nearby people and property—the “targets”.
Our assignment, should we choose to accept it, is to calculate and clearly communicate to the owners the risk associated with their tree, and what they can do about it.

 

[clearance]

Yup, that's us! :rockn:

Just one detail to clarify--us "ISA guys" carefully assess tree risk and act accordingly. We don't throw out phrases like "danger tree" and "hazard" without inspecting and communicating tree risk before decisions are made.

Us "ISA guys" try not to shoot our mouths off before our brains are loaded. And most of us do not live in BC where trees are plenty, and grow like crazy.

Tree owners decide how much tree risk they will accept, depending on: how much they value the tree, what condition the tree is in, and how much they value the nearby people and property—the “targets”.
Our assignment, should we choose to accept it, is to calculate and clearly communicate to the owners the risk associated with their tree, and what they can do about it.

Don't lump yourself in with all ISA guys, you are a lot smarter than many of them, much chaff amongst the wheat in that club.

 

[treeseer]

Don't lump yourself in with all ISA guys, you are a lot smarter than many of them, much chaff amongst the wheat in that club.

Thanks, I try not to lump myself with anybody; gotta keep movin'.:biggrinbounce2:

The chaff in any club that chafes me is those who hit a level, be that CA or PhD, and figure that they can stop learning and start lecturing.umpkin2:

re landscapers and planners, right now there is a best practices manual being developed, to inform that audience about tree management. Long overdue imo. Some of our Tree Fund money hard at work.

 

[alanarbor]

I'll clear up some confusion for you, the power must stay on, or our society collapses, think about it. Mrs. Johnsons oak tree should be cut down if its that dangerous, where do you get this "must be saved" b.s. from? Who says, the customer? Let me put it this way, if you risk your life to save a tree, you are an idiot. Your comparison doesn't make sense.

[sarcasm]And..............welcome to arboristsite Dave!

It's a friendly kinda place. where everyone respects each other's opinons and all.[/sarcasm]

 

[ScottTree]

You know, i missed that phrase about the electric chainsaw. Maybe scott is the real thing-most treemen i know consider electric chainsaws a joke. or, maybe............
Scott's thinking that since these guys work around power anyway, he can take these electric saws, cut off the plug, split the cord, and attach some alligator clips. When the guys are up in the tree, they can simply clip them into the line and have all the power they need. And he's probably figuring that the bigger the line, the more power he'll have. Heck, when he's doing transmission lines, those saws should have enough power to turn a three foot bar!! :hmm3grin2orange: LOL nice!

That's a joke scott. Didn't mean to jump on you but like clearance i am touchy about it. But you are right, not all line clearance guys are good, but they all seem to get lumped in with the bad.

Beowulf/Clearance thnx for the response. Yes! Beowulf that was the meaning of the joke, the electric chainsaw. When i first moved in with my girlfriend 4 yrs ago, every piece of yard equipment she had was electric. Electric lawnmower, electric weed eater, electric hedge trimmer. She just would'nt get rid of them. Needless to say they all mysteriously stopped working in the first 6 months Now that i think about it, when i hit that exposed root with the lawnmower and it started smoking, maybe i shouldn't have gone to get that drink of water. :hmm3grin2orange: But of course i have all the gas toys we need.

 

[treevet]

Don't lump yourself in with all ISA guys, you are a lot smarter than many of them, much chaff amongst the wheat in that club.

Interesting, retreat, defer, give in when challenged. Not very good characteristics for someone w such a dangerous occupation. Another ISA Guy

 

[clearance]

Interesting, retreat, defer, give in when challenged. Not very good characteristics for someone w such a dangerous occupation. Another ISA Guy

A somewhat cryptic post. Let me explain. In the beginning I though that ISA certification meant competence in treework. I found out that this was not neccesarily so by observing. I have had many beefs on this site, with many people, including Treeseer, about this topic. Treeseer and I don't see eye to eye, I am quick to execute trees, he isn't. But other than that, I believe he knows way more about trees than me. A common theme of some ISA people is to slag utility guys, almost as they see the utility guys as thier retarded cousin in treework, it pisses me off, and I am touchy about it. Scott explained himself, he meant no insult, so life goes on. Thats all.

 

[treevet]

A somewhat cryptic post. Let me explain. In the beginning I though that ISA certification meant competence in treework. I found out that this was not neccesarily so by observing. I have had many beefs on this site, with many people, including Treeseer, about this topic. Treeseer and I don't see eye to eye, I am quick to execute trees, he isn't. But other than that, I believe he knows way more about trees than me. A common theme of some ISA people is to slag utility guys, almost as they see the utility guys as thier retarded cousin in treework, it pisses me off, and I am touchy about it. Scott explained himself, he meant no insult, so life goes on. Thats all.

Fair enough, Clearance, and I feel you, and beyond that have new respect for you with that response. I do, however, wish you would see the obvious and acknowledge the almost Webster's def of hypocrisy in the disparaging remarks you level twds ISA CA s and utility guys in response to your sensitivity to the same type of remarks made twds utility guys. I have witnessed this other times and feel it belittles you and would like to point that out to a fellow site member.

 

[clearance]

Ok, point taken.

 

[treeseer]

Treeseer and I don't see eye to eye, I am quick to execute trees, he isn't.

Well it's hard to see :Eye: 2 :Eye: when there's a continent in between. We have different jobs but we're both arborists with some pride in what we do.

Nice chat w treevet there, honest talk on the web, jeez what's next?

 

[Ed Roland]

Well it's hard to see :Eye: 2 :Eye: when there's a continent in between. We have different jobs but we're both arborists with some pride in what we do.

Nice chat w treevet there, honest talk on the web, jeez what's next?

Mr. Seer is is a true PRESERVATIONIST! Look at his recommendation to the home owner for the "leaning pine" thread. Little snip snip and all good.

Im all about taking a tree out if it is a hazard, by definition, and the clearance guys get my nod. Make the cut and get the H*LL out of those wires! Internodal, rip, flush, whatever. Cut the tree out of the wires... go home safe!

Keep up the good work, fellas.

 

[grizzly2]

Clearance, you seem to be fairly passionate about what you do, that's great. I do find it extremely amusing that you belittle anyone else who feels that same passion about their line of work. I'm not going to get into a CA versus non-CA argument with you, you have your mind made up (no matter how you decide to stereotype). I, on the other hand, was merely stating that we are both in a very dangerous profession. Yes, if we lose power, things get tougher with daily life. I understand fully the effects on no utility clearance and power lines (or any other lines). What I don't think you quite understand is that not all things are so cut and dry. If a tree is a danger, we don't HAVE to cut it down, we CAN make it safer. (that does not relate to utility work) In utlity work, if it's in the way, it's removed. OK, good job. What I'm trying to say is, maybe you could help bridge that gap between arborists and utility arborists, as opposed to putting yourself on top of everyone. You simply feel that any remark about utility work is a dig on you and your occupation. You have an opinion, but the part that makes life interesting, is that so does everyone else. Am I an idiot for trying to save Mrs. Johnson's tree? According to you, yes. So, the guy who thinks everyone who is a CA hates utility arborists, also thinks that anyone who saves a tree is an idiot. Interesting.