Leaners - multiple types - how to?

[headleyj]

Ok fellas, I have several "leaners" I need to take down on my place. Here's my plan - please let me know what you think:

1. "Regular" leaner
- face cut on leaner side
- back cut with a long bar, standing back as far as possible, slowly, listening for 1st "crack", retreat as far as possible

2. Leaner with hefty split on tension side (barber chair waiting to happen)
- Shallow face cut on leaner side
- Back cut directly across hefty split, standing back as far as possible, slowly, listening for 1st "crack", retreat as far as possible


3. Uprooted Beech, on a steep hill, stuck in another tree.
- Face cut on leaner side (b/t the 2 trees)
- Back cut on uphill side (make sure it's square with face cut as to avoid a hinge and tree rolling) and hope the butt slides off rootball and plops on ground, then falls left/ right? me run opposite direction? Too much guessing, I don't like it.

this is the one I'm real worried about. I can't retreat up that hill, it's way too steep.

- Do I face cut on the right side, back cut and wedge on left side? (there's a good escape route on the left side)

Input on all 3 is greatly appreciated here.

 

[gwiley]

Tree #1 and #2 - strap or chain about 1-2ft above your planned backcut before beginning to prevent a barber chair. You can't stand far enough back to avoid it if it happens violently enough (unless you have arms that are 4' long). I like the 5000lb tow chain with a ratchet binder.

#3 is tough - make sure there is no torsion on the stem. If the tree twisted when it got hung then it could untwist during the cut which might grab the saw and throw it back into you. Watch as you cut for signs that torsion in present (fibers in cut that should stay opposite each other start to move laterally).

You really should try to get equipment in for #3 - I position a skid steer up against the stem and cut next to the skid steer to keep the stem from whacking me (it has to move a large piece of equipment to do damage).

You probably already appreciate the potential hidden forces in the root ball, but they like to spring in weird directions.

A safer option is to get the trunk mostly cut through then use equipment to pull it apart rather than finishing the cut with a saw.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

or

det cord

 

[headleyj]

det cord

hmmmm - not a bad idea really

 

[056kid]

I would not cut them like you a planning. you are just counting on getting enough back cut out and not having the tree chair. Gut the face, since you have a long bar bore in and establish a hinge. take ths saw out and back cut normally.

Do it in a way that you will have complete control, dont gamble...

If the beech is completely up rooted, its going to be opposite tension wise. the pull wood is gonna be on the down hill side & the compression on the up hill side. cut straight from the back, notice the kirf closing, you can row your saw back & forth to keep space for the saw to keep cutting. when you are about to get pinched, pull out and hit the bottom, stay in it till the butt slides off the stump and spits your rail out when it does. Be on your toes and get ready to run.
theres a chance that the root ball is going to come after you so make sure to asses the situation good. You can try & prop the root ball with some wood so that when everything goes down, the root ball will be kicked away from you by the piece of wood.

Good luck!

 

[385XP]

I agree with 056 sounds like a good plan for tree 1 2 and 3 except i would bore in behindmy hinge ane cut toward the back of the tree . Just be carefull and make shure your ready for something to happen fast.

 

[headleyj]

thanks fellas, I greatly appreciate it.

 

[headleyj]

I'll admit - I read 056's post about 6 times and had some questions. These publications seem to answer all of my questions and seem to be chocked full of great info. Some elementary to experienced folks, but anyone reading this who is not experienced (like me) hopefully these help.

http://www.northamericantrainingsol...atured/Arbor_Age_Technical_Felling_Apr_09.pdf

http://www.treecareindustry.org/articles/safety/TCI1008_p8.htm

and see attached.

 

[385XP]

Yes that second site is a pretty good looking link. It hard to exsplain some things while your on here that would be easy in person.

 

[ryan_marine]

Depending on where they are located I would get a big tractor.

Ray

 

[SunriseAtSea]

A grain of salt?

It is hard to say how I would cut them up without seeing them. For tree three (#3), if had no machine; I might consider leaving the beech as is, depending on whether or not it is heavy against the second tree. I would make a good escape trail, cut up the second tree doing the back-cut with a plunge cut, leaving holding wood on both sides of the bar. Then when you are ready to move fast, you cut the back holding wood off fast, and get out of the way. Keep an eye on it, it could pivot sideways. This is not something you try without a lot of experience.

 

[SunriseAtSea]

Two grains of salt.

I am sorry, I did not read your words correctly for tree problem number three; I didn't realise you you wanted to save the second tree. I do not have a lot experience with this sort of problem. However in that case, I would try put my back cut in the beech first, just enough to get a wedge in, do your undercut, finish your back-cut, then pull it off with as line skidder. If you have no skidder, you might consider cutting a window somewhere on your back-cut and try using a hydraulic tree jack to lift the tree off the holding wood.

I like plunge cuts:

 

[056kid]

I am sorry, I did not read your words correctly for tree problem number three; I didn't realise you you wanted to save the second tree. I do not have a lot experience with this sort of problem. However in that case, I would try put my back cut in the beech first, just enough to get a wedge in, do your undercut, finish your back-cut, then pull it off with as line skidder. If you have no skidder, you might consider cutting a window somewhere on your back-cut and try using a hydraulic tree jack to lift the tree off the holding wood.

I like plunge cuts:

In the Beeches case, its more of a bucking situation due to the fact that if the roots are indeed in the air, the weight is in the belly of the tree not the crown. . . . . . . .

 

[SunriseAtSea]

Maybe you could get a rope around the top of it and pull it down with the tractor. I seen an old farmer attach a 200' rope to near the top of a hundred foot D. Fir tree and pull it over with a team of horses, and it uprooted this 24 inch dia. tree completely. Lots of leaverage, pulling from the top.

 

[GASoline71]

In the Beeches case, its more of a bucking situation due to the fact that if the roots are indeed in the air, the weight is in the belly of the tree not the crown. . . . . . . .

Yep... and be prepared for that root ball to roll back away from the spar. It can get ugly in a hurry.

Gary

 

[sawinredneck]

No's 1 and 2, go with a little bigger face than you think you need! I got burnt a year or so ago on a large Oak leaner. I made a smallish face then the back cut, just as you stated, the wind changed just a little on me. Next thing I know I have a 36" Oak barber chaired up 20ft in the air that I now have to get on the ground!
I don't do that anymore! If I question it at all, I bore cut it! No 2 I can't argue with gutting it, but I think a thin hinge, bore cut and trip it from the back to release would be my approach. Chain it even, I won't make fun of you! At least you are alive!

Tree no 3, that's just a mess! I've had hangers, but not with a rootball, that just adds to the misery! If you cannot get equipment in, well, it's gonna be a ride!
Cut a LARGE face on the downhill side, bore cut it all the way out and run like hell! Now, IF that didn't kill you, you can start to "fencepost" the rest of the tree. Cut a face cut towards the holding tree, bore cut chunks out of it until it flips back towards you out of the holding tree. I've done it once, I hope to never do it again! Yes, it's that scary!
No's 1 and 2 don't scare me all that much, no 3, I'm running off like a little girl waiting for a wind storm or an excavator!

 

[056kid]

No's 1 and 2, go with a little bigger face than you think you need! I got burnt a year or so ago on a large Oak leaner. I made a smallish face then the back cut, just as you stated, the wind changed just a little on me. Next thing I know I have a 36" Oak barber chaired up 20ft in the air that I now have to get on the ground!
I don't do that anymore! If I question it at all, I bore cut it! No 2 I can't argue with gutting it, but I think a thin hinge, bore cut and trip it from the back to release would be my approach. Chain it even, I won't make fun of you! At least you are alive!

Tree no 3, that's just a mess! I've had hangers, but not with a rootball, that just adds to the misery! If you cannot get equipment in, well, it's gonna be a ride!
Cut a LARGE face on the downhill side, bore cut it all the way out and run like hell! Now, IF that didn't kill you, you can start to "fencepost" the rest of the tree. Cut a face cut towards the holding tree, bore cut chunks out of it until it flips back towards you out of the holding tree. I've done it once, I hope to never do it again! Yes, it's that scary!
No's 1 and 2 don't scare me all that much, no 3, I'm running off like a little girl waiting for a wind storm or an excavator!

If he does that hes gonna get pinched in the back cut. Use your head dude, if the tree is up rooted, its being held by the crown. putting the compression wood on the up hill side & the pull wood on the down hill side....

 

[sawinredneck]

There is compression on both sides dude! The root ball wants to go up the hill, the tree wants to get closer to the tree it's hung in!
Did you not read the part about running away like a little girl?

 

[056kid]

So you tell him to put a notch on the down hill side?????


Whats gonna happen when he gets to the end of the bored back cut. the trees gonna sit its ass on his bar...

A notch on the up hill side would work alittle better, but there are problems involved with that approach as well.

Cmon now, the root ball is not going to go up hill, we have a law called gravity you know, we have to abide by it...

 

[sawinredneck]

If you would read the post again, I suggested an excavator or let the wind blow it out. Otherwise I would run like a little girl. What he wants to do from there is up to him.