Leaners - multiple types - how to?

[redprospector]

I can't tell you how I'd handle these trees without being able to see them. Even then, sometimes you second guess yourself.

We had one like your #3 after a wind storm in December. It was in town, and there was a structure it would hit if we just pulled it down. So we set a snatch block low in another tree and ran the mainline from my skidder through it and up the tree, there were two other cables used to stablize it too. Then it came down a piece at a time.
Here's some pic's.

First "log" coming down, after the top.

You can see the house on the right.

The more was cut, the more it stood up. Until it was gone.

Andy

 

[tawilson]

Pretty hard to tell from a sketch which way the root ball will go. It may be hard to tell even if you are standing there looking at it. There might still be a ton of dirt wanting to pull it back into the hole. Any other trees or objects to connect too? I'm thinking hold it from both directions while you cut then release tension when further away without a saw in you hands. Makes it easier to run. Just throwing ideas out there.

 

[AIM]

I'm certainly no pro but I have successfully done several like No# 3.
I can't really tell you where to cut on the tree without seeing it but the general idea is to compromise the integrity of the tree and then yank it apart with the vehicle you drove out there in.

To try to explain my method.....
Make a face cut on the side not towards the good tree or the hill.
Make your back cut leaving enough wood to hold the tree at least until you get away.
Did I mention to have the chain hooked to the tree ahead of time.
Have the chain hooked just above your cuts.
After your cuts are made simply yank away until something gives.
(a loaded truck works better.)
I use enough chain and strap to be a safe distance away.

Your BACK CUT will be towards your truck. The FACE cut will be away from the truck. Your trying to get the base of the tree go sideways.

If this does not work just walk away and come back a couple years later. It should be rotted enough to either yank apart easily or already be on the ground.

 

[bitzer]

How big are these trees? 1 and 2 face them and bore behind the hinge. #2 you may have to leave a thicker strap or just be concious of your holding wood. #3 how is the tree hung up? Does it look like it could roll one way more than the other? How long a bar do you have? Does the ball look like it will stay put or roll or go back or what? Pics would help, but still won't do justice. You may be able to put an angled open face in side hill (the way it may twist) like a salami cut. Bore below the face and to the back (closer to stump), pull out and tickle the back until it goes. That way you may be working with the tension sideways instead of straight on. Its really hard to tell with no pics though. How big is this thing?

 

[SunriseAtSea]

Lots of interesting safety stories of leaners here:
http://www.bcforestsafe.org/node/190

 

[Gypo Logger]

The chain and binder idea on #1 and #2 is a good idea. Often times it's the unintentional dutchman that will get you in combination with one that is split already.
On #1 you may as well use a binder &chain, but if not, plunge out a bar width behind the back of the hinge, then do the backcut really fast. You can cut your way out or your way in, but I prefer ctting my way in as you can escape quicker.

I think #3 is a no brainer. Use at least 3 wedges in the top leaving at least a 16" stump, this will help prevent the root ball from coming forward which they rarely do unless on steep ground.

Once again, it's hard to be a keyboard logger unless we have actually seen them.
Gypo

 

[Gypo Logger]

Although no felling cuts are shown, here's a vid of a maple I cut to show what the root ball does 99% of the time.
Gypo

 

[ross_scott]

with #1 and #2 I would be inclined to make my notch in the front then also put in a wing cut on either side of the notch this will prevent the slabbing and then bore in to set hinge wood cut back a little then put in a couple of wedges and cut the holding strap at the back. #3 I have not had to deal with one of those so I won't make comment apart from push/pull the sucker over with a bulldozer

 

[headleyj]

great, great, great info guys. Rather than trying to address each ?, I will (in regards to #3):

1. Take a few pics tonight from several angles
2. Assess the torsional situation (IIRC, it doesn't appear it wants to twist)
3. From what I remember the rootball will want to fall back in place (that was my gut feel anyways, I will reassess tonight)

Wasn't ignorin ya'll this weekend, only have internet here at work. I sincerely appreciate everyone's input here. I'll be back tomorrow with pics.

 

[Gypo Logger]

great, great, great info guys. Rather than trying to address each ?, I will (in regards to #3):

1. Take a few pics tonight from several angles
2. Assess the torsional situation (IIRC, it doesn't appear it wants to twist)
3. From what I remember the rootball will want to fall back in place (that was my gut feel anyways, I will reassess tonight)

Wasn't ignorin ya'll this weekend, only have internet here at work. I sincerely appreciate everyone's input here. I'll be back tomorrow with pics.

A few pictures would be good to see. The triagular backcut is nothing new and will save a few trees. All it does is reduce the time that the tree falls as it is a competition between how fast the tree will fall and how fast the saw will cut and how big of balls the faller has.

The bottom line is you have to stay with the tree, trust it, trust the holding wood and trust the saw and trust your knowledge.

It's a really cool thing falling timber and when it's in your blood there is no possible way you will ever get sick of it.

It's you against the timber and there are few bigger rushes than to give every tree you cut the respect it deserves. That's what makes you safe.

Gypo

 

[tawilson]

Here's a thread I started a few years back concerning an uprooted leaner that I didn't know how to deal with. It wasn't on a hill like #3, and you don't have a tractor/winch setup, but I thought I'd post it just to show the suggestions I got and how I dealt with it.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=29929

 

[headleyj]

ok here's some pics - sorry, work's been busy

#1a - an 8" leaner - ok, not bad

#1b - 20" leaner - been dead for a few years - hoping it'll blow over

#2a - leaner with split in base

#2b - I'd esstimate it's leaning at 25°-30° from vertical - picture doesn't do it justice

 

[headleyj]

ok here's the beech (how appropriate)

3a - angle of the tangle

3b - Tops Tangled - honestly if it has ANY torsion on it, it isn't much

3c - standing mid-hill, looking down

3d - standing at bottom of hill, looking up

3e - Rootball. The gap under the rootball is ~ 3.5'-4'. Rootball is ~8-10' in dia I'd say.

Conclusion: After 20 minutes looking, evaluating and contemplating....I'm leaving it alone. I may put a few notches in it and wait for a good storm to blow through, but that's about it. You'd HAVE to stand on the rootball, no way around it whatsoever.....not something I wanna tackle.

 

[Mike PA]

Conclusion: After 20 minutes looking, evaluating and contemplating....I'm leaving it alone. I may put a few notches in it and wait for a good storm to blow through, but that's about it. You'd HAVE to stand on the rootball, no way around it whatsoever.....not something I wanna tackle.
Today 09:36 AM

That's the safest way to handle that one.

I'd like to see what other people say, but the dead trees may not be much of an issue. The holding wood is not as strong, which leads to less control, but also less chance of a barber chair. You may be able to cut the first dead leaner normally, with a fast saw and sharp chain. These are only 20" trees and you may be able to outpace any chance of b.c. The split dead you might be able to do the same, but add a chain to keep the split down. Maybe cut the split out? Doesn't look too deep in the tree? I'm curious to see what other people with more experience have to say, in case I come across one like this. Nice pics. Thanks for posting this.

Edit: Are 2a and 2b the same tree? If they are, bore cutting may be the best answer, as that is quite a lean. 2b looks like a bore cut would be appropriate, or a T cut as well illustrated in another thread.

 

[bitzer]

The 8"er, put a small face in and give er hell from behind.

The dead 20"er; I'd face it and bore out the heart or behind the hinge to see what kind of wood is in the middle (rotten/none, etc). Then cut it from the back. I've cut hundreds of dead trees and they can always give you a surprise. Also look up a lot for falling limbs and what the tree is doing. Its also leaning so its going to go that way, but the top might come back at you.

The split tree, just cut above the split and you should be fine. I'd cut the heart out of that one two and then work from the back or bore behind the hinge depending on which way the tree has to go or if it needs to be swung.

The beech. Its going to be tough getting that one out without a cable/rope and a machine or puller. The ball looks like it will go back, but like you said you'd have to stand on it. Just a salami might get it off of the stump. Then a series of salamis will get it off of the ground and maybe tipped back up the hill toward the stump, maybe. If you don't have to mess with it, don't. If you can get some equipment back there that would be your safest option. Just cut it up to where you can break the rest of the holding wood by pulling on it. Otherwise leave it alone.

 

[headleyj]

That's the safest way to handle that one.

Edit: Are 2a and 2b the same tree? If they are, bore cutting may be the best answer, as that is quite a lean. 2b looks like a bore cut would be appropriate, or a T cut as well illustrated in another thread.

2a and 2b are same tree yes.

 

[headleyj]

if it's decent weather this weekend I'll practice boring on a few that need to come down but are straight, done it before, but not too much. I'll move up in size/ difficulty one tree at a time....and leave that beech of a beech alone for now

I'm off all next week too so I can tackle then too. Thanks fellas.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Looks like the beech is firmly lodged. There's not much you can do without equipment. If it's as lodged as it looks, simply give it one backcut and let it flop off the stump.

With regards to the split one I'd do the felling cuts above the split area.

Gypo

 

[Gypo Logger]

I forgot to mention that once the beech is off the stump and still hung up, there's nothing wrong with undercutting it 6-8' off the ground after slightly nipping it with the saw on the top. It's quite safe to do if your on the uphill side.
If you've cut thru and it won't hinge, a good push or kick will make it hinge.
Because it's on a slope you just have to be careful that the tree doesn't come back towards the stump.

It's almost like refalling the tree and if your cuts are placed correctly the tree will sometimes roll off the tree it's hung up in. This method is best used on trees under 16" dia. It basically comes down to nerve and experience. If you feel uncomfortable about, don't do it.
Gypo

 

[headleyj]

thanks to all, great discussion - I will report back week after next (I'm on vacation next week so no internet access) on how everything went.

Gypo - I thought about hinging on one side and seeing if I could get it to twist and dislodge, but that's a bit above my paygrade