leg straps vs seat

[rbtree]

I've used a lot of saddles over the years, from a trad butt strap, to bosun's chair, to leg strap.

Ther is more to a saddle than its main features, as the actual design can mean one will work much better than another. As well, some saddles will work for one body type but not another.

My experiences:


No trad butt strap saddle is any good, due to the hip pinch, great reducing mobility and creating mucho discomfort. That's why the bulky spreader snaps were developed, to alleviate some of the discomfort.

A bosun seat saddle is great, more comfortable than leg strap saddles, but bulkier.

A legstrap saddle is never going to be as comfortable as a bosun seat, unless it has superior design, like the Ness (I dont own one, only because it lacks other features which I feel I need.)

The Buckingham saddles are good in that they have some intermediate adjustments allowing some fine tuning to spread out the pressure to hips and legs. The Butterfly's design seems to be the best and loading both...but I still find it a bit uncomfy when on a line for extended periods.
But I'm reluctant to go with another Versatile (my old one is too small and wearing out) as, though they've been improved, they still either use the too small d'rings, or the floppy straight larger ones, that are very low on the user friendly scale. I see the new Glide has the same Drings as the B'Fly, which are great, and also built so as to allow them to be flipped back if desired. Maybe I'll contact B'Ham and request those d'rings.

Best of both worlds would be saddles that allow a bosun's chair to be added....like the Austrian Duo. And did someone say you could get a bosun's seat for the Butterfly?

Question, has anybody here used or tried Fresco's X saddle, designed by Tony Sackett? One criticism I have is the attachment loops are oriented vertically, seems to make little or no sense.

 

[rbtree]

Not really, Brian. I would definitely not call a B"Ham bosun saddle a leg strap saddle...unlike the duo, a leg strap where a bosun's can be added on.

The BHam straps are just like any butt strap saddle straps, they're just there to keep the but strap in place.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I sthil say a poll...

http://www.arboristsite.com/search....d=205235&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

 

[SteveBullman]

rbtree, yes butterfly do have a solid seat attachment, makes so much difference when hanging, kinda like the austria duo, in that you can just pull it out of the way when not in use and tuck it under when you want to sit.
I actually have a spare one if you're interested

http://www.terratree.co.uk/index.php?cat=4,2,p

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by rbtree

The BHam straps are just like any butt strap saddle straps, they're just there to keep the but strap in place.

They do keep the seat in place, but they are there to keep you from falling through the saddle or having the saddle slide up, in case of a fall.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I find it easier to climb with leg straps. They allow more range of motion. The trade off, is less comfort when just hanging in the saddle.
I don't do a lot of just hanging, I like to keep moving and stay on my feet.
The natural evolution, for me anyway, was to start with a cheapo butt strap, then move to a bosun seat, and finally get into a leg strap. As you gain more experience you spend less time hanging in your saddle and more time moving around. Having a good long work positioning lanyard allows you to get into more comfortable positions too, so you can work without hanging.
Perhaps as even more years roll by, I'll go back to a bosen seat again, when things slow down and I loose manuverability in the tree.

 

[Stumper]

Guys, We are mixing our discussion of leg STRAPS and individual leg LOOPS. The original question was leg STRAPS but I have wondered from the beginning if the question was really about loops. For the record. _I HATE a buttstrap without leg straps-I don't have enough butt and the buttstrap winds up around my waist. I liked my Weaver 1040 with the leg straps better than a buttstrap alone and better than the old Karl Kuemerling harness with the leg loops that pinched thighs and genitals, but hip pinch was still a problem. My Ness with its individual, wide, contoured, padded leg loops is WONDERFULLY comfy.:angel:

 

[rbtree]

Good post stumper. Rocky, that should help you understand what I meant. While a B'Ham bosun chair saddle may look like it has leg loops with a batten attached, the point is moot, as it does not have the feel of a leg loop saddle.

 

[Tree Machine]

Bosun

Having used both, I strongly prefer the bosun seat. when I go rock climbing or caving I have a pretty comfy harness, but the leg straps, or loops; whatever you wanna call em, just kill me.

Contary to Mike Maas' statement of

As you gain more experience you spend less time hanging in your saddle and more time moving around

I spend more time hanging on rope, simply because I'm more comfortable doing it than back at the beginning of the career where my feet were firmly planted on the tree at every moment, until the abseil out. Also, I'm gonna have to poo-poo Mike's theory on leg straps allowing more range of motion. Sir, I think it's a subjective judgement, as per comfort and preference, but as far as range of motion, I truly think the opposite. Nad-crunching limits my range of motion, and that sort of pressure is rarely an issue with a Bosun. In a leg strap, or loop, saddle I am limited by how much pain is offered when I get into funky positions. When I switched over to the bosun many years ago, I was able to express the full spectrum of tree work positions, and not get in a 'pinch'. Very liberating.

Ever been on rope, and ridden slowly down an angled limb, backwards, like riding a horse, so you can lop off firewood-length hunks as you go?? You scoot the bosun downward slightly to the lowest part of your butt, upper back legs, and that becomes the distinct line of demarcation between the limb you're on, and your nadulations. Slide with confidence. I couldn't imagine this in a leg strap scenario. But then again, I haven't tried all the leg-strap saddle available today, so my preference is based on limited knowledge of what else is out there.

Only had six saddles in my career; four strap versions that kept me limited with certain moves, and the last two Bosun models which put no gear limitations on me that I have found.

Lastly, I have found Bosun models to get in and out of faster than leg loop models. This may mean nothing to many, but it's an important part of the overall judgement of what makes an ideal saddle

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

By range of motion I mean like doing the splits. You can't do that type of leg spreading with the seat type saddle unless you pull the seat up and then you can't put your weight on it.
As far as spending time hanging, watch a work climb at the local competition, you don't see too much time just hanging there.
I'm not comfortable hanging and cutting, I like to have my feet planted.
Not to say there aren't times when I just hang there, like doing cabe installations, but I do a lot less than moving or standing.

 

[rbtree]

Mike, have you worn a bosun's chair saddle? I have never noticed any limitations as you describe, with mine, totally unlike a leg pinching butt strap saddle. I too have to agree, as I am somewhat underwhelmed with my B'fly...but only for the pinch that it gives...and pressure under the butt/upper thighs....which is not as bad as my old Sierra Blair, which put nearly 100% of the weight there. the B'fly does spread some to the waist. I quit that saddle and went to a Pinnacle....I was experiencing numbness due to pressure on nerves..not a good thing!!

I'm gonna wait till Tom Dunlap gives me more feedback on his Fresco X saddle, which should result in Tony improving it,, then I'll get one...unless there is something better out there.....perhaps Yates will develop their rumored saddle.

 

[Burnham]

Ness, Ness, Ness!!! As comfortable as a bosun seat for long term sitting w/o bulk, and full freedom of movement w/o testicular trauma.

 

[rbtree]

Burnham,

That's why I want to know more about the X, it features the same awesome leg strap design.

The Ness is too limiting for me, needs more features.

 

[Burnham]

What would you like in the way of features that the Ness lacks, Roger?

Tom Dunlap has spoken of the Fresco X favorably to me as well. What in particular appeals to you about it?

I reckon no saddle is perfect, certainly not even useable for everyone...but I sure do like my Ness .

 

[Stumper]

Rb, Are you aware that New Tribe will sew just about any combination of hooks snaps and gear loops onto Ness Work Saddle per your request? I've learned to like the little Ds but you can get big'uns if you wish.:angel:

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by rbtree
Burnham,

That's why I want to know more about the X, it features the same awesome leg strap design.

The Ness is too limiting for me, needs more features.

I thought that too and I want a bridge to get the line out of my face at times. I really looked hard at the X and thought it had some thing. Wonder if anyone here has used it?

Same feelings about the ness. looks great and want sliding bridge as in the butter fly and glide. I have the glide ..., whished I'd have gotten the B'Fly.

Jack

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by rbtree
Mike, have you worn a bosun's chair saddle?

Yes, My last saddle had a bosun seat, and was replaced with a Butterfly. After about one day in the Butterfly, I knew the old saddle wasn't ever getting used by me again. I sold it to Sipkedsupra.
I recall my first impressions of the Butterfly, light, big increase in range of motion, compact.
Climbing styles and body shape make each person suited to different saddles.

 

[kf_tree]

thats funny ........i tried a butterfly after a bosum seat saddle and ended up cutting the leg straps off the butterfly and added a seat to it. the leg straps just hurt, i don't know how or why people use them.

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by kf_tree
thats funny ........i tried a butterfly after a bosum seat saddle and ended up cutting the leg straps off the butterfly and added a seat to it. the leg straps just hurt, i don't know how or why people use them.

I don't like sitting on a park bench, like to keep moving. Then it is comfy.

Jack

 

[Ax-man]

I just don't see how two leg straps around the legs could be comfy, compared to a bosun seat that distributes the weight better and more evenly, at least to my way of thinking, if and when the time comes to actually sit in the saddle.

I don't know how any one else is adjusting their bosuns, my seat is about where leg straps would be worn, maybe a tad higher, I adjust the seat so that it is barely touching the back of my legs when standing straight.

I've never felt restricted in any when it comes to mobility in moving around in a tree with the saddle adjusted this way.

The idea of having to step into a saddle and pull it up, like a pair of pants, that really isn't for me, either

Larry