leg straps vs seat

[kf_tree]

looks pretty good for a home made saddle huh?

i hated the leg straps of the butterfly so i cut them off an ordered the bosum seat set up from the buckingham pinnacle pro saddle and mated the 2 together. it was just dumb luck that the colors matched. i reused the butterfly buckles on the buckingham leg straps.

i suppose if you could get the floating d part from buckingham it to could be mated to the butterfly back pad.

it became a pretty pricey saddle, i'm into it for about 400.00 but it's just the way i like it. i know 2 other climbers that wan't me to make them one.

it came out pretty sweet. the tie in is part of the bosum seat so even with my cutting and stitching i did nothing to disturb the integrity of the saddle. where the seat connects to the back pad i used weave through metal buckles.

 

[murphy4trees]

I'd like to add a metal buckle to an old saddle that I bought cheap and never really used...any suggestions??

It's a OK saddle, but hard to get in and out of... the buckle would make a big difference....

 

[Tree Machine]

Leg strap clips

I replaced my clunky metal leg clips with the heftiest plastic Fastek buckles I could find (dive shop), only because I could not source the nifty aluminum ones like on the BuckinFly. The plastic ones are a kazillion times more convenient than the stock crap, but they're still plastic so I do not recommend anyone retrofitting with them.

Are the Aluminum buckles available anywhere?

 

[Froggy]

Leg Straps here. I think you're more moblie in a saddle with Leg Straps, but that's just my opinion. I think all climbers are different. What ever makes your job as a climber better for you. As you can already see from the discussion in this thread there are many different saddles out there and many different climbers out there. If you really want to know what's for you go to the TCI Expo. and try some out maybe you'll be able to be a step closer to what you think you want, but the only real way to know is to climb in one and decide from there. Experiance in the saddle is the only way you're going to figure it out. :Eye:

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Re: Leg strap clips

Originally posted by Tree Machine
I replaced my clunky metal leg clips with the heftiest plastic Fastek buckles I could find

What is the breaking strength of those buckles? 75 pounds?
Where you dropped on your head as a child?

 

[Tree Machine]

breaking load unknown on an non-rated piece of plastic

I imagine the breaking strength could be somewhat less than 75 pounds (33 Kg), which is why I do not recommend anyone retrofit the clunky stock metal friction buckles with these plastic ones.

I think I'm into the third year with this saddle. I've never had one of the plastic buckles break, however I have, on two occasions, had one pop open. Now, when I'm in some fandangled position where there's intense pressure on my upper thigh, or worse, my inner upper thigh, or worse yet, my inner upper inner thigh, I just go ahead and pop the buckle so I can avoid popping a gonoidal.

If the thigh clips had anything to do with holding me in the saddle, the plastic clips would never have been considered. BUT, all they do is keep the bosun seat in place, and since getting in and out of my saddle is a repetitive issue, multiple times a day, every working day, I just needed a less complicated system that did not compromise my safety.

Since it is the waist belt that's keeping you from falling out of your saddle, I didn't feel modifying the thigh clips to be a big deal. It was the best thing I did to the saddle, but still, I would like to replace them with the metal quick-clips.

 

[Tree Machine]

dropped on my head?

By the way, never got dropped on my head. Mom was always pretty careful about that. There was the time the galloping mare took a quick, hard right turn, I fell forward, dropped under the neck, then fell. As the horse tried to jump over me, one of the rear hooves clocked me in the melon. That was a legitimate concussion incident.

And then there was the awful frisbee accident my junior year in college, but that takes us off-topic, so maybe another time.

 

[Mahk]

I have used Saddle X for several months and really like it. It has a wide back pad and wide, triangular, Ness type leg loops. There are lots of adjustment points that allow you to fit the saddle to your body and climbing style, and lots of attachment loops for gear. It's light and the 'X' ring moves like a sliding D ring.

Mahk

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by Mahk
I have used Saddle X for several months and really like it. It has a wide back pad and wide, triangular, Ness type leg loops. There are lots of adjustment points that allow you to fit the saddle to your body and climbing style, and lots of attachment loops for gear. It's light and the 'X' ring moves like a sliding D ring.

Mahk

I'd heard that the back rest was cut to wide, what is your experience?

Jack

 

[Mahk]

Originally posted by jkrueger
I'd heard that the back rest was cut to wide, what is your experience?

Jack

Jack;

The back support is definitely wider than other saddles. A quick measuement shows that, at its largest point, the back support of the X is 10 inches wide; The Glide is 6.5 inches wide and the Ultra-Light (by Sierra Moreno) is 8.5 inches wide.

That never bothered me. I did notice that it was wider, but it has never hindered my movement or made me uncomfortable. If anything, the extra support is welcome on large removals.

Mahk

 

[Menchhofer]

The Austrian Saddle shown at Fresco looks as it it would be a good saddle. Anyone have one of these?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

TM,

You're walking out on a thin limb by using those Fastex buckles. I sure wish that you would spend some time with Google to find proper buckles. Heck, I'll bet someone here has a saddle hanging on a nail in the garage with perfectly good buckles. Strike up a deal.

I just downloaded an HSE research paper on the impact loads of falling bodies into harnesses. The intro paragraph got my interest. I think we're going to be stunned about how much load a saddle takes when a body falls.

What saddle are you using? I can't hardly imagine any saddle where the leg straps don't hold you into the saddle.

Tom

 

[Tree Machine]

I admit my wrongdoing, and suggest it to no one

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
I just downloaded an HSE research paper on the impact loads of falling bodies into harnesses.

I strive to not be a falling body. I never climb much above my tie-in point, and when I do, I have a steel-cored flipine that keeps me localized.

In this paper, who was doing the falling? Scaffold workers, roofers, bucket truck guys, hi-rise window washers? Stadium catwalk guys? Manlift workers? Rock climbers?

Tree work, as we practice it, is about work positioning. Positioning done right, requires a tie-in point higher than where you're working, (and being tied in twice when you cut) and to keep your friction hitch, ascenders or device tensioned up properly. A fall under these conditions will result in hanging there at pretty much the same height. That's why treeguys, doing things properly, do not fall. It's not part of our sport

Make a pitch on falls under conditions whereby work positoning is done improperly, and I have no comment. Under those circumstances, plastic Fastek buckles would have a man skating on thin ice and should definitely not be used. Actually, I agree they shouldn't be used at all, and I've stated that, but until I find a better product, mine will stay.

OK, there's the fall where you're limb-walking way out there, you fall, you pendulum into the trunk of the tree in fine Wile E. Coyote fashion, and you hit the vertical face with a hard force. Slamming into a tree probably won't pop leg buckles. You've got other worries at this point

Then there's the fall where you cut your rope, and you free fall to your demise. If only you had the real manufacturer's leg clips....

What about the fall where you're tied in well above, but you cut the stem you're tied into, catapulting you to the ground. Again, plastic buckles are the least of your worries.

About the only way I see them popping open is by falling straight downward, which, practically speaking requires you to 1) Leave way too much slack in your climbing line while climbing your way up through the limbs and 2) not be using your flipline judiciously when in that temporary situation when there is potential for a fall to occur. Climbers doing these foolish and usafe things should review their climbing methods.

I will order new leg clips as soon as I find where they are available. I haven't asked the butterfly Komet people. Anyone got a link?

I am climbing on a Buckingham Versatile. I ditched the original clips, not because of the inability of the legstraps to hold me into the saddle. It was because the originals were a clumsy, PITA buckle that was annoyingly involved in getting in and out of, especially with gloves on. I just wanted an easier system without compromising safety. This is what I came up with, until a truly good buckle could be found. I know they now exist, I just don't know from where I can buy them.

Instant quick-clips on the leg-straps is a great feature gentlemen, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting your time with it

 

[Tom Dunlap]

TM,

You've spent some time thinking this through and you're responsible to yourself for what you do. I'm just expressing my concern for the practice.

You outlined most of the possible fall scenarios that arbos might face. Do you have a clue about the loads that the climber's body might encounter? Neither do I. That's why I read research that has been done about other rope working environments. I've learned a lot by doing that. Enough to feel that Fastex buckles shouldn't be used for any critical part of an arbo's saddle.

To each their own, I guess. It hurts to hear about practices like this.

Tom