Links cracking, ARCHER chain

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

I did a little more research as I wasn't clear on how much Archer was just a name or a company with any history in Australia. (For example, GB which used to do all their manufacturing in Australia, outsources a fair bit to China now but still of outstanding quality.) Turns out Archer is owned by PMD International, an Australian company which also produces the labels Mako (aftermarket chainsaw parts) and Harvester. There are some posts from 11-12 years ago on here of the Aussies being pretty impressed with Archer for a Chinese product. If the chain worked well on rock-like Aussie hardwoods as the Aussies posting seemed to feel it did, that's kind of a gold standard for handling the toughest wood and conditions. I don't think they had any history previous to being made in China, though. Been around about 15 years I think. But only really started selling much in the US about 5-6 years ago. From PMD International's website - "PMD commenced as a Chinese trading company in July 2007 and was established to offer high quality internationally made products to the outdoor power industry, including providing a wide range of parts and accessories for chainsaws, lawnmowers, and brush cutters to our customer base." Like you say, standard model, Chinese trading company that creates or buys Western brand names to sell products under.

Like with General Electric/GE, too. Also, Milwaukee Tools & Ryobi Tools are also owned by the Chinese corporation TTI.

 

[U&A]

I appreciate all the help and info guys. I fixed the chain this morning and moved on as I had milling to do. Hundred foot roll of Oregon Ripping chain is waiting for me to go pick up at the local dealer. Not saying I won’t buy archer again, just trying different things as I go. Can’t beat the price of archer. Dang near 1/2 the cost.

I’ll update tomorrow on what archer said when I contacted them. Got to shut down for the night. Was a rough day.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I appreciate all the help and info guys. I fixed the chain this morning and moved on as I had milling to do. Hundred foot roll of Oregon Ripping chain is waiting for me to go pick up at the local dealer. Not saying I won’t buy archer again, just trying different things as I go. Can’t beat the price of archer. Dang near 1/2 the cost.

I’ll update tomorrow on what archer said when I contacted them. Got to shut down for the night. Was a rough day.

Definitely worth experimenting when you're making money and getting a shot at huge logs like you are. I forget what all I've been through. Woodland Pro, Oregon, Archer, bit of Stihl. Full comp, skip, hyperskip... I messed around too long looking for a magic bullet rather than getting good at making one thing work and keeping it working. So I settled on Archer in the end because of the price point, when I found that marginal differences in chain quality weren't half as important as keeping it good and sharp and avoiding metal. And since nails and metal are a fact of life in most yard logs, didn't feel like spending a lot on chains I might destroy. Is the Oregon full comp or skip? I always wanted to try Oregon 27RA full skip on my 880, but it's kinda hard to find in the US. 27RX hyperskip is just too few teeth for my liking. A few places online carry 27RA, like Loggerchain and American Forestry. https://americanforestry.com/produc...ies-micro-chisel-ripping-application-100-reel
And are you using any kind of detector for metal? I use a Harbor Freight airport security style wand just to check the first inch or so around the outside of a log before first cut - don't think it detects deep enough to catch nails 9/4 deep between slabs, so I just take my chances with those.

 

[U&A]

Definitely worth experimenting when you're making money and getting a shot at huge logs like you are. I forget what all I've been through. Woodland Pro, Oregon, Archer, bit of Stihl. Full comp, skip, hyperskip... I messed around too long looking for a magic bullet rather than getting good at making one thing work and keeping it working. So I settled on Archer in the end because of the price point, when I found that marginal differences in chain quality weren't half as important as keeping it good and sharp and avoiding metal. And since nails and metal are a fact of life in most yard logs, didn't feel like spending a lot on chains I might destroy. Is the Oregon full comp or skip? I always wanted to try Oregon 27RA full skip on my 880, but it's kinda hard to find in the US. 27RX hyperskip is just too few teeth for my liking. A few places online carry 27RA, like Loggerchain and American Forestry. https://americanforestry.com/produc...ies-micro-chisel-ripping-application-100-reel
And are you using any kind of detector for metal? I use a Harbor Freight airport security style wand just to check the first inch or so around the outside of a log before first cut - don't think it detects deep enough to catch nails 9/4 deep between slabs, so I just take my chances with those.

Ill probably get another roll of archer after this roll of Oregon is gone. Here is the link to what Oregon chain my dealer can get. He said his distributor had to dig to find it as it was not in “the catalog”. It took a few days to find this stuff locally. 100’ roll I should get 8 chains out of it for my 60” bar. 168 DL on the cannon bar. Bummer. JUST shy of 9 chains. 9 would be cool.

Supposed to be standard full skip. I SUPER clarified that to them. No Hyper skip please

https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/versacut™-saw-chain,-100'-reel/p/27ax100u

 

[U&A]

Archer did offer to send me a 2 new loops if I sent them my current loops for them to inspect. They said there was something wrong with my setup that was causing it.

First they said to make sure the pitch on my nose and drive sorket matched. Both brand new actually. I Just replaced the nose on the bar about 2 weeks ago and there is a brand new 404/7 driver on the power head.

That is when they said my setup had issues and they wanted to inspect the chain. I was told to mail them in. Once they received them (in 7-10 days) They would make me new loops and then mail them to me in 7-10 days.

I explained to them that i could not. I NEEDED the chains this week for milling. Im a new small business and they are the only two chains I have for my 60” bar. I had to mill THE next day ( yesterday) and 2 others this week And 2 others the following. Not enough time to make new loops with the Oregon as the dealer was closed. Rain is coming (its here now) so I had to get some jobs done. Glad I did get one done yesterday. I couldn’t put the customers off any more than I already had because i just had a new top end done by Kevin.

I offerd to break that very small section out and fix the chain. They wanted more of the loop than I cot afford to give up. So i fixed it and went to work yesterday morning.

Is what it is. Iv got to make money.

I do appreciate them for the offer they gave me. 100% thankful for that. But time was already against me AND i know my setup was not causing the chains to crack.

No hard feelings here.

Sitting in my bling right now so got to get off the phone. Have a good day guys. And THANK YOU SO MUCH for all rhe help and info your giving me. Truly appreciated.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Ill probably get another roll of archer after this roll of Oregon is gone. Here is the link to what Oregon chain my dealer can get. He said his distributor had to dig to find it as it was not in “the catalog”. It took a few days to find this stuff locally. 100’ roll I should get 8 chains out of it for my 60” bar. 168 DL on the cannon bar. Bummer. JUST shy of 9 chains. 9 would be cool.

Supposed to be standard full skip. I SUPER clarified that to them. No Hyper skip please

https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/versacut™-saw-chain,-100'-reel/p/27ax100u

Only thing about that is that it isn't ripping chain. 27AX is the full skip .404 Oregon crosscut chain. 27RA is the full skip ripping chain. Most dealers will never be able to find you the 27RA, I'm not sure why, but Oregon doesn't seem to bother distributing it in the US for the most part, available more overseas. Basically I've found like two places that carry it, up from one. Loggerchain in Iowa used to be the only one, but now American Forestry as well.

 

[U&A]

Only thing about that is that it isn't ripping chain. 27AX is the full skip .404 Oregon crosscut chain. 27RA is the full skip ripping chain. Most dealers will never be able to find you the 27RA, I'm not sure why, but Oregon doesn't seem to bother distributing it in the US for the most part, available more overseas. Basically I've found like two places that carry it, up from one. Loggerchain in Iowa used to be the only one, but now American Forestry as well.

I might have sent the wrong link. Or maybe there was a misunderstanding on what I needed.

They SAID they ordered me ripping chain that was full skip not hyper skip. And its Oregon. We will see what it truly is when I get there

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Hopefully it is 27RA. It would have been something the distributor had to dig for, more than AX. I have to think it's available in the US because Oregon is a US company, it's just because it's not in the catalog and a niche item no one knows how to order it and never does. That would explain the mystery of why so few places carry it, it's not that Oregon doesn't have it available in the US, they probably just don't list it in their dealer catalogs so no one knows they have it.

 

[U&A]

Hopefully it is 27RA. It would have been something the distributor had to dig for, more than AX. I have to think it's available in the US because Oregon is a US company, it's just because it's not in the catalog and a niche item no one knows how to order it and never does. That would explain the mystery of why so few places carry it, it's not that Oregon doesn't have it available in the US, they probably just don't list it in their dealer catalogs so no one knows they have it.

Its the right stuff! It DID really hurt paying for it though. Makes it $91 for each loop for my 60” bar. $731 after tax for a 100’ roll

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Its the right stuff! It DID really hurt paying for it though. Makes it $91 for each loop for my 60” bar. $731 after tax for a 100’ roll

Interesting that it's made in Brazil instead of China. They probably use the same materials no matter which factory in the world it's produced in, but I usually feel a bit better about stuff assembled in Brazil. That should be real good stuff.

 

[U&A]

Interesting that it's made in Brazil instead of China. They probably use the same materials no matter which factory in the world it's produced in, but I usually feel a bit better about stuff assembled in Brazil. That should be real good stuff.

Yah i found it interesting. The other Oregon chain I buy is from USA.

I agree. Brazil is better than china….but to be fair ill take a Smith&Wesson or even a Glock over a Taurus.

 

[U&A]

Dang. Last log i did was only 4 cuts at 18’ long. Another tie strap cracked.

Hit no metal in the log. Was a pretty easy one as far as stress would go on the chain, bar, saw etc…

 

[U&A]

OH SHOOT!!!

Pattern with the problem identified. Every time it has been on the tie strap that is on the cutter.

What ya think? Cracking from the side force on the cutter? Thats my first thought. Related to the hardening process of the steel as mentioned before….. Just thoughts as of right now.

 

[Mad Professor]

OH SHOOT!!!

Pattern with the problem identified. Every time it has been on the tie strap that is on the cutter.

What ya think? Cracking from the side force on the cutter? Thats my first thought. Related to the hardening process of the steel as mentioned before….. Just thoughts as of right now.

Is it always the tie strap on the same side of the cutter? Before or after cutter?

 

[U&A]

Is it always the tie strap on the same side of the cutter? Before or after cutter?

Exactly like the picture in the first post.

 

[nedsim]

OH SHOOT!!!

Pattern with the problem identified. Every time it has been on the tie strap that is on the cutter.

What ya think? Cracking from the side force on the cutter? Thats my first thought. Related to the hardening process of the steel as mentioned before….. Just thoughts as of right now.

To get some idea about the heat treat, put a tie strap in a vise and bend it sharply over the vice jaw. If it doesn't snap, bend it back and forth with a crescent wrench. Then do the same with a strap from a known good chain and compare the result.

A spark test will give you an indication of whether the material in the problem chain is similar to a good chain. It takes a fair amount of experience to ID a specific alloy, but comparing two samples is easy.
https://www.welding.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/404.jpg

My SWAG is it's the heat treat. Another possibility is that the links were not punched properly (dull tools, bad press setup) and there are micro-cracks around the pin holes that spread under the stress of cutting.

 

[U&A]

To get some idea about the heat treat, put a tie strap in a vise and bend it sharply over the vice jaw. If it doesn't snap, bend it back and forth with a crescent wrench. Then do the same with a strap from a known good chain and compare the result.

A spark test will give you an indication of whether the material in the problem chain is similar to a good chain. It takes a fair amount of experience to ID a specific alloy, but comparing two samples is easy.
https://www.welding.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/404.jpg

My SWAG is it's the heat treat. Another possibility is that the links were not punched properly (dull tools, bad press setup) and there are micro-cracks around the pin holes that spread under the stress of cutting.

My gosh sir! Thank you! I will report back after I do it. Give me a few days

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

I'm sticking to my WAG of bad heat treatment. But I don't know what I don't know.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Btw, this is still the Archer, not the new Oregon chain?

 

[U&A]

Btw, this is still the Archer, not the new Oregon chain?

Correct
Archer

Have not had a chance to make loops of the Oregon. Im considering switching the nose sprocket on my 42” Oregon bar to 404 so i can make a few loops for that. I use that bar for the smaller logs but have to switch my saw over to 3/8 to do it. Getting tired of that.

We will see. I really like that bar for my 385 when I have to make cross cuts in the really big logs to get them to length

Really just need a second 3120