List of Upgrades to Vermeer SC252

[TheAMMIXman]

Also, I have been quoted a price on the stock size pulley and gates brand belts from a local bearing supplier. And have bought the jackshaft and cutter shaft bearings from them already. I will post all part numbers later.

 

[Jstumpy]

Mod

For those of us that have the 252 it seems like it would be handy to have an authoritative list of the modifications all of us have made to improve/upgrade/strenghten our machines.
I know Plyscamp has made quite a few, including the recent hydraulic ram bushing upgrades. Has anyone else made mods to their 252? What did you do, how well has it worked out, any specific part #'s?

I would like to take all the responses and put them together in one post so any of us can benefit from them a bit easier.

If there are previous posts you know about, please reference them.

I realize that some things are matters of opinion, like which type of cutter wheel or teeth to use, like, my preference of the Sandvik. But lots of things are probably just what they are, good upgrades.

Perhaps these upgrades would help those with similar sized machines from other manufacturers as well.
Stumper63

i modified my 252's pump by welding a 5/8 socket in 3/8 drive to the pump pully, now when i have an engine failure while in someones yard i can attach a large cordless dewalt to the pump to work my drive and hydraulucs to recover and load my equipment

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Mod
i modified my 252's pump by welding a 5/8 socket in 3/8 drive to the pump pully, now when i have an engine failure while in someones yard i can attach a large cordless dewalt to the pump to work my drive and hydraulucs to recover and load my equipmentView attachment 694513

Excellent idea! I never thought of doing that. I always just figured I’d be ratchet strapping or using a come - a - long or muscle power to get it back on the trailer.

I’ve just rebuilt the front of my machine from the wheel with green teeth to the motor. Even new stock size pulleys where they are worn out. I have all the pulleys in range for the hydro pump mod others have done here.

Stock 5.4, 4.4, 4.1, 3.4, and 3.1. Starting in the middle with the 4.1 and am trying to find some AmsOil HTTO 5w-30 as cheap as possible before first test run. $233 for 5 gallons online! Worth it tho. I the AmsOil can be the saving grace in the hyrdo pulley mod from what another guy on here and said, and some reasoning and understanding on my part.

I’ll take some pictures in the morning of the mod and what I’ve done as the cutter wheel belt just came in and I must still do final assembly, line up, and tension. I’ll be out there anywya.

Still need to post all the part numbers I sourced for stuff not from vemeer. All quality parts, no junk. I’ve saved the boxes and of course receipts.

I am glad to see this thread is not dead!

 

[Brian Holly]

Anyone change the diameter of the jackshaft and cutter shaft pulleys to affect speed? I need to replace at least the jackshaft one and am contemplating this at this time.

I read somewhere on here someone did speed up the cutter wheel with some initial advantages but wore teeth quickly and they theorized the opposite may be better, slow down for more torque.

This is what I’m contemplating, slowing down the cutter wheel. For more torque. I am doing the hydro pulley upgrade so im thinking a little more tourque may be better with the swing arm moving faster.

I’m talking minimal change. 1/4” change or so on be pulley. Not inches or anything. Just slow it down a hair.

Thoughts? Anyone at all?

Hope this thread isn’t totally dead. I love my 252, even if there is better equipment these days. Great info here.

If you slow down the cutter wheel RPM and maintain the same sweep speed across the stump your chip load per tooth will increase, which could cause a hammering effect due to each tooth having to remove more material.
Reducing your RPM will ultimately lead to a slower sweep speed or a reduction in the depth of cut.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

If you slow down the cutter wheel RPM and maintain the same sweep speed across the stump your chip load per tooth will increase, which could cause a hammering effect due to each tooth having to remove more material.
Reducing your RPM will ultimately lead to a slower sweep speed or a reduction in the depth of cut.

Thank you for your insight. I appreciate it. That does make sense. As it is I’m already “increasing chip load per tooth” I believe, as I am switching to green teeth with less then 1/4 the amount of teeth. That’s the system they offer for my machine. Grinding stumps is all new to me as of last year. Hope that was a good move, guy in town doesn’t like green teeth cause he doesn’t want to sharpen them, I’ll do the work if it makes the work faster.

I did keep all the cutter wheel stuff factory and just did the hydro pump mod others with my machine have done. I didn’t go as crazy as some, and I spent the $$$$$$ on the AMSOIL Hydraulic Tractor Transmition Oil so I expect no pump wine and little to no adverse affects on the pump.

I really appreciate the reply

Bruce

 

[Brian Holly]

Thank you for your insight. I appreciate it. That does make sense. As it is I’m already “increasing chip load per tooth” I believe, as I am switching to green teeth with less then 1/4 the amount of teeth. That’s the system they offer for my machine. Grinding stumps is all new to me as of last year. Hope that was a good move, guy in town doesn’t like green teeth cause he doesn’t want to sharpen them, I’ll do the work if it makes the work faster.

I did keep all the cutter wheel stuff factory and just did the hydro pump mod others with my machine have done. I didn’t go as crazy as some, and I spent the $$$$$$ on the AMSOIL Hydraulic Tractor Transmition Oil so I expect no pump wine and little to no adverse affects on the pump.

I really appreciate the reply

Bruce

Hello Bruce

How far down do you normally drop the head before sweeping across the stump?
The upgrade kit still uses the same amount of lead teeth keeping the chip load per tooth relatively the same. Most often only the lead teeth are being used given the HP of the 252.
The two biggest advantages to the upgrade kit is the reduction in total mass of the wheel as well as reducing drag by eliminating cutters recirculating through the chip pile. By reducing mass and drag we were able to utilize a larger tooth which allows the operator to take a larger depth of cut while maintaining RPM.

I work at Greenteeth if you ever have any questions about our cutting systems or just a question about stump grinding in general please don't hesitate to give us a call we would be happy to help in anyway we can.
Just for future info, their is a few groups on Facebook with a ton of valuable information for somebody just starting out in the business.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Hello Bruce

How far down do you normally drop the head before sweeping across the stump?
The upgrade kit still uses the same amount of lead teeth keeping the chip load per tooth relatively the same. Most often only the lead teeth are being used given the HP of the 252.
The two biggest advantages to the upgrade kit is the reduction in total mass of the wheel as well as reducing drag by eliminating cutters recirculating through the chip pile. By reducing mass and drag we were able to utilize a larger tooth which allows the operator to take a larger depth of cut while maintaining RPM.

I work at Greenteeth if you ever have any questions about our cutting systems or just a question about stump grinding in general please don't hesitate to give us a call we would be happy to help in anyway we can.
Just for future info, their is a few groups on Facebook with a ton of valuable information for somebody just starting out in the business.

Hello Brian

How far down do I drop the head before cutting?

Well I have no formal training, or any training in this field so I’ll explain what I do. Thus far I’m entirely self taught.

When lining up to make my first pass from any specific angle I generally line up the wheel so a set of teeth is about to touch in the middle of the pass, swing it wide and bump the down lever once quickly. I doubt it drops an inch. Maybe it does. I would not think my 252 would remove too much at one time. Certainly not inches I think.

It’s more by feel than anything. I’m not watching it each time how far down it goes. If the last pass swept to easily and it didn’t feel like I pulled off much wood I bump the down lever a little longer than last time to take more wood. If the machine bogs and feels like it’s struggling I don’t drop it as far next time or I may even bump it back up a hair mid sweep.

The first few passes I usually don’t take off enough and I get more aggressive with the drop down of the head as I get going until it feels the machine is really working for it, then as there’s more wood to remove can’t lower the head quite as much each time. I’m still learning, and the feel is about to change I’m sure with green teeth and an increase in swing speed.

Few years back that guy I know from town did a stump on my property, fair sized one for around here. Prob 4ft at the cut, 6ft st the root line. He prob ground a 8ft+ circle not including chasing roots. The chips this guys machine made were sometimes the size one hand hand in a cup shape. And I’m 6’2” with probably not small hands. Mine are more like wood shavings. Of course he had some turbo diesel machine probably 60 or 80 horsepower, and I have 27. Less than half.

Anyway that’s how I go about lowering the cutter wheel in increments. Thank you for asking, hopefully I’m going about it in a decent manner. Like I mentioned I have no formal training, but I’m a figure it out kind of guy.

Cool to know you work at green teeth! I bought the tooth conversion back in the summer but the machine came with brand new looking Vermeer teeth so I figured I’d use them as long as possible, and I didn’t do as many jobs as I may have hoped for(late start due to trailer reg issues). I did not purchase the whole new “wheel” then as I was just starting. I did not have the funds to try that out and make all my repairs this winter but it looks enticing, and I still have the green teeth and pockets for the factory wheel in the box. Couple sets in fact. I am sure you know exactly what I purchased since you work there. I believe there’s only one kit for the factory wheel for my machine. I have yet to install them but will soon.

Just rebuilt the whole front end of my machine and picked up my “special” hydro oil. Just have to put the pockets on, the teeth on, tension the belts and put the new oil in. Then stumpy is ready again. Stopped and gave my card to a tree service just this am with a foot of snow on the ground no less!

What are these Facebook groups you speak of? I do not have a personal Facebook. My wife made one for my business I bet I could and should access them through that account.

Thank you much for correspondening with me!

Bruce Linder

 

[Brian Holly]

Hello Brian

How far down do I drop the head before cutting?

Well I have no formal training, or any training in this field so I’ll explain what I do. Thus far I’m entirely self taught.

When lining up to make my first pass from any specific angle I generally line up the wheel so a set of teeth is about to touch in the middle of the pass, swing it wide and bump the down lever once quickly. I doubt it drops an inch. Maybe it does. I would not think my 252 would remove too much at one time. Certainly not inches I think.

It’s more by feel than anything. I’m not watching it each time how far down it goes. If the last pass swept to easily and it didn’t feel like I pulled off much wood I bump the down lever a little longer than last time to take more wood. If the machine bogs and feels like it’s struggling I don’t drop it as far next time or I may even bump it back up a hair mid sweep.

The first few passes I usually don’t take off enough and I get more aggressive with the drop down of the head as I get going until it feels the machine is really working for it, then as there’s more wood to remove can’t lower the head quite as much each time. I’m still learning, and the feel is about to change I’m sure with green teeth and an increase in swing speed.

Few years back that guy I know from town did a stump on my property, fair sized one for around here. Prob 4ft at the cut, 6ft st the root line. He prob ground a 8ft+ circle not including chasing roots. The chips this guys machine made were sometimes the size one hand hand in a cup shape. And I’m 6’2” with probably not small hands. Mine are more like wood shavings. Of course he had some turbo diesel machine probably 60 or 80 horsepower, and I have 27. Less than half.

Anyway that’s how I go about lowering the cutter wheel in increments. Thank you for asking, hopefully I’m going about it in a decent manner. Like I mentioned I have no formal training, but I’m a figure it out kind of guy.

Cool to know you work at green teeth! I bought the tooth conversion back in the summer but the machine came with brand new looking Vermeer teeth so I figured I’d use them as long as possible, and I didn’t do as many jobs as I may have hoped for(late start due to trailer reg issues). I did not purchase the whole new “wheel” then as I was just starting. I did not have the funds to try that out and make all my repairs this winter but it looks enticing, and I still have the green teeth and pockets for the factory wheel in the box. Couple sets in fact. I am sure you know exactly what I purchased since you work there. I believe there’s only one kit for the factory wheel for my machine. I have yet to install them but will soon.

Just rebuilt the whole front end of my machine and picked up my “special” hydro oil. Just have to put the pockets on, the teeth on, tension the belts and put the new oil in. Then stumpy is ready again. Stopped and gave my card to a tree service just this am with a foot of snow on the ground no less!

What are these Facebook groups you speak of? I do not have a personal Facebook. My wife made one for my business I bet I could and should access them through that account.

Thank you much for correspondening with me!

Bruce Linder

You are moving along quickly with the learning curve of stump grinding. I also listen and watch how the wheel is cutting an make adjustments to the head when needed. I just didn't know if you stopped to take a look at how much material you were removing during a pass.
It sounds like you have the machine all tuned up for the upcoming season.
The Facebook Group with the most members is called "Professional stump grinders". You should be able to find it in the search bar on Facebook.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

You are moving along quickly with the learning curve of stump grinding. I also listen and watch how the wheel is cutting an make adjustments to the head when needed. I just didn't know if you stopped to take a look at how much material you were removing during a pass.
It sounds like you have the machine all tuned up for the upcoming season.
The Facebook Group with the most members is called "Professional stump grinders". You should be able to find it in the search bar on Facebook.

Thank you. Yes I think I can tell when the machine is working too hard, or when the work is taking too long and it’s not working hard enough.

Only time I have looked mid pass is if I really took off too much a time or two. At those times I didn’t even think it was necessarily the depth of cut that bogged me out, at least not the depth I dropped the head per pass. I thought I was getting too deep, using too much of the wheel and not moving forward in time. If that makes sense. This has only ever been an issue on huge stumps.

Even then if the teeth were vertically contacting say 12” of wood as they rotate with the wheel(wich is probably to much hence the bog out or stalled machine)I still do not think I was lowering the head and taking more than 1” per pass.

Maybe that answers your question better.

I will certainly get the FaceBookery on my phone and check out that group.

Thanks again

Bruce

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Need help disabling auto sleep

I have a 2012 252. I now have green teeth and 3.5” pulley. I went to disable auto sleep. I pull the fuse in the holder under the hood, then the wheel does not turn on. What am I missing??

 

[Arboristo]

Need help disabling auto sleep

I have a 2012 252. I now have green teeth and 3.5” pulley. I went to disable auto sleep. I pull the fuse in the holder under the hood, then the wheel does not turn on. What am I missing??

Hi Ammixman,
What engine do you have? I have never been able to find out how to switch of auto sweep..but the answer is that you don't have to. I you. Auto-sweep is controlled by the sollenoid that counts the revs of the flywheel. If you just increase the max rpm a bit above factory settings, auto-sweep switches of somewhere around 3850 revs. The great thing is that it switches on again if you lower revs bit, cause in some situations e.g. when grinding centimeters from a brick wall, it can be handy when you need to be careful.

I do not run the Kohler anymore, but it should be possible to screw up max rpm of that engine too of course.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Hi Arboristo

I have the Kohler Command 27 on mine. I believe it’s the original. Supposedly 7XX hours on the machine’s meter. I had read previously in this thread it was as simple as pulling a certain fuse to disable it. However, I do believe the operators stating such had earlier 252’s and probably did not have operator presence on their machine’s.

I think I understand the method you are expanding, turn up the govener some to stay above the limit. Not sure I’d want to risk engine damage for some productivity.

I do think most of the time I’ve gotten good enough with the machine it doesn’t kick on and slow me down. It would be nice to not have it kick on at all. It still does come on and slow me down at times. Been a while since I bit off so much it stopped the machine dead in its tracks, don’t think I need it anymore.

Thank you for the reply

 

[Arboristo]

I have made many modifications on my sc252. I actually improved everything on the machine that could be improved and you won't believe how fast it became. I beat a 50HP Predator on an average job easily. The Predator might take slightly larger cuts per second, however the control you have when grinding with a 252 makes grinding so much more efficient than with any other machine. I'm able to follow the contours of the stump perfectly with manual control. This makes grinding so much more effective than grinding with a radio controlled grinder, as that one will be cutting in 'nothing' a lot during the job.
I have also improved the movability by changing the small wheel for a larger wide wheel. Second best mod ever! I can turn my sc252 180 degrees in just two seconds. I also did an engine mod and made my own (much heavier) grinding wheel with just 12 teeth.

 

[Arboristo]

Hi Arboristo

I have the Kohler Command 27 on mine. I believe it’s the original. Supposedly 7XX hours on the machine’s meter. I had read previously in this thread it was as simple as pulling a certain fuse to disable it. However, I do believe the operators stating such had earlier 252’s and probably did not have operator presence on their machine’s.

I think I understand the method you are expanding, turn up the govener some to stay above the limit. Not sure I’d want to risk engine damage for some productivity.

I do think most of the time I’ve gotten good enough with the machine it doesn’t kick on and slow me down. It would be nice to not have it kick on at all. It still does come on and slow me down at times. Been a while since I bit off so much it stopped the machine dead in its tracks, don’t think I need it anymore.

Thank you for the reply

Well you can just disconnect the black plug to switch of auto-sweep, it is easy. But honestly I do believe setting your governor a bit higher does not cause much harm.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Well you can just disconnect the black plug to switch of auto-sweep, it is easy. But honestly I do believe setting your governor a bit higher does not cause much harm.

Hi again Arboristo

Thank you for corresponding with me on this.

Well if I can do it by just in plugging something that’s the way I’ll go till I have enough cash on hand to replace my motor with a bigger one if it goes.

You say a black wire to the auto sweep switch? With no actual knowledge of how the system works I assume you may mean the wire that might to a solenoid that restricts hydraulic flow?

Any easy way to indintify this black wire and the correct switch/solenoid?

A larger steer wheel is genius!! My steer shaft needs bearings this winter anyway. Great idea!

I also run less teeth(green teeth)6 total. Those and my 3.5” pulley are what keep me caught up with the big boys. I’ve timed myself against an 1152, I’m not that much slower, and I clean up much better.

Thank you for the knowledge

 

[Arboristo]

Hi again Arboristo

Thank you for corresponding with me on this.

Well if I can do it by just in plugging something that’s the way I’ll go till I have enough cash on hand to replace my motor with a bigger one if it goes.

You say a black wire to the auto sweep switch? With no actual knowledge of how the system works I assume you may mean the wire that might to a solenoid that restricts hydraulic flow?

Any easy way to indintify this black wire and the correct switch/solenoid?

A larger steer wheel is genius!! My steer shaft needs bearings this winter anyway. Great idea!

I also run less teeth(green teeth)6 total. Those and my 3.5” pulley are what keep me caught up with the big boys. I’ve timed myself against an 1152, I’m not that much slower, and I clean up much better.

Thank you for the knowledge

You have to leave the solenoid in place as you won't be able switch on the clutch without a signal of the solenoid. (unless you overrule with a separate switch and wires of course, but a lot of unnecessary work)
The black plug is easy to access, it under de hood, let's say left under the most left control handle. I believe it has red wires.

By the way, I'm quite sure you will grind faster with 12 x 700 greenteeth instead of 6.

I'll post a picture of my large wheel later.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Arboristo

I did I believe look into the 700s because they had three sides to wear on but they did not sell them “for my machine”. Ultimately I found I can usually grind with half a tooth at a time or more even and I never see any un-worn spots so I figured using 50% of the tooth then flipping was fine for me and I never looked further into. If they fit in my current pockets I’ll have to give them a go at some point. Easy enough to try.

I’ll be looking for that picture of the steer wheel to see how you went about it.

Thank you very much for the excellent description of the location of the wires to that switch. Ill be sure and let you know when I have it found for certain and I’ll snap a picture for this thread for others to see once verified I got it right.

Have a great day
Thanks again

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Slotted the holes for my hydro drive belt adjustment today. The 260 belt stretches to the factory limits and stays ok but I’ve changed the belt a bunch and never really let it get old. The 250 belt is to small for me as I’ve opted for a compromise at a 3.5” pulley.

Point of sharing is end mill bit in a hand drill wasn’t the way to go. Die grinder then step drill bit at the new end. Still gotta clean it up with a file in the morning. Little crude as of now.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

So it actually had a 4.1”. I’m going to try the 3.5”. See what happens fellers. Truly close to max now. Also the pump is a little stiff to rotate by hand too. Don’t remeber ifnit was like that. Read here thst May be ok. Updated pick of elongated slots too.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

So it actually had a 4.1”. I’m going to try the 3.5”. See what happens fellers. Truly close to max now. Also the pump is a little stiff to rotate by hand too. Don’t remeber ifnit was like that. Read here thst May be ok. Updated pick of elongated slots too.

Just a note for anyone doing this. I went back to 4.1” and did not use the 3.5” pulley. It created more space to tension the belt and the clutch could rotate further(the 3.5 did this), this created a problem with the clutch wires traveling too far. I had a big job scheduled and didn’t want any problems so I just switched back to the 4.1”. I may have been able to re route the wires but wasn’t going to risk a changed setup, also the A250 belt others have used on the 3” pulley may be a better option if it will fit(I have one I tried on the 4.1” but was way to small and I forgot I had it that night). I will say that with the auto sweep disabled the 4.1” is plenty for me, not often am I wishing to move the swing speed even faster. Usually thats a bad move anyway, getting greedy causes jam ups.