List of Upgrades to Vermeer SC252

[dstyduhar]

Hey guys,

I removed the horizontal pin tonight and wanted to echo what Catskillmountaintree said previously about dogging down on the nut to pull the pin through. So long as the collar on each side of the pin is the same size this will work. TheAMMIXman said his machine had different sized collars so make damn sure of the collar size before going this route.

I don't have a nice impact gun so took a slightly different approach where I removed the base pan on the nut side (clutch side) so I could get to the nut vertically. I then used a big double ended 1.5" wrench for hitch balls and used my left foot to push down and tighten the nut. Bottomed out shoulder added spacers and did this over and over until the pin came out. The ends of my pin were definitely corroded and there was a bunch of loud pops but it came out without ton of issue.

Drew

 

[dstyduhar]

As a side note, I also pulled the boom off today. Does anyone know what size that large nut is? Im measuring 1.8" or 45.9mm flat to flat. Could this really be a 46mm nut?

Regarding the bearings, don't waste your money buying these through Vermeer. My local Vermeer dealer quoted me 50 dollars for bearing/cup so that's $100 to replace both. They are a super popular LM67010/LM67048 combo commonly used on trailers. You need the LM67010 cup and the LM67000LA (which is a LM67048 with a seal). Can get both for not much over 50 bucks if you use Timken. If you use another bearing brand (Enduro for ex) you could prob do it even cheaper.



thanks,

Drew

 

[TheAMMIXman]

@dstyduhar

You got that link for the aftermarket clutch? I can’t seem to find it. Want to get me one. Was almost positive the one you led me to was for my machine. Of the three I know of it looked just like mine.

Thanks
Bruce

 

[dstyduhar]

Hey Bruce,

The aftermarket clutches are from a company called extreme outdoor power equipment. I like that the pulleys are all machined billet (not stamped) and the clutch is designed so the bearings are replaceable and not peened into place. Their torque ratings are also higher @ 300ftlbs. It looks like these are comparable to the round clutch that came on these 252's.Here is the website - https://xtremeope.com/. They also sell on ebay/amazon and other sellers distribute their clutches.

I bought the x0755 model for my machine with the 1-7/16" shaft Kohler. It should be here Monday so I will verify against the Ogura I have.

Your engine has the 1-1/8 diameter shaft, right? Is see two possible options here....x0754 or the x0756 model. Looks like they are out of stock on both so might wanna call. The only difference between x0754 and x0755 is the ID. Torque, pulley size, etc. is spec'd the same. The X0756 crosses over to GT5-VE10 which is the # on your clutch you showed me before. Looks like the x0754 crosses over to John Deere models so that's an avenue for searching. I mean, it's not like they designed a unique clutch just for these 252's.




I hope this helps!
Drew

 

[dstyduhar]

Hey guys,

I am trying something new for the bushings for the bottom horizontal pin. I didn't like how the boom pivot is tightened to just rub on the box frame of the stump grinder. It just rubs off the paint and then rusts. I contemplated adding some thrust shims on the side coupled with the stock steel tension spring they used but ended up using some bronze flanged bushings. I could only get my hands on sintered but really wanted to find cast. The bushing is 1.25" ID, 1.5" OD and 1" long with a 2" OD flange that is 3/16" thick. The 2" OD flange is a perfect fit for the recessed groove on the side. It's like it was made for it. The bushing was a press fit and I had to ream the inside after so the pin could slide through. Slick as butter now.

BTW, I found out the nut takes a 1-13/16 socket. Weird size.

 

[dstyduhar]

Also, got back from the laser cutters. I sourced some AR500 steel and had them cut out a custom wheel I designed. I'll be curious to see how a bulletproof steel grinding wheel holds up!!

thanks,

Drew

 

[dstyduhar]

Hey guys,

Wanted to bring something to your attention regarding the cutter wheel and cutter wheel shaft hardware. I found that the cutter wheel shaft flange is drilled for a 7/16" bolt yet the stock hardware are 3/8" bolts. The wheel holes are drilled ~.400". Yes, the wheel is mounted hub-centric on the cutter shaft but the amount of slop here is sort of goofy. FYI that GREEN told me when you use their Green Wheel, they have you use 7/16" bolts with the stock shaft so I assume they also identified the excess play in this area. Here are some options I have considered:

1. Upgrade to a M10 bolt without any modification as it's slightly larger than a 3/8"
2. Drill out wheel for a 7/16 bolt. Not sure how I feel about this on a stock wheel but it's a thought.
3. Use a 7/16" to 3/8" reducer in crank flange so it's a tight fit with stock hardware. These reducers are cheap. Also known as heim joint reducer. Can also be found as a split bushing too.

thanks,

Drew

 

[dstyduhar]

I finally got to the bottom of the Vermeer Yellow paint color I have been chasin for a last few months.

First off - Vermeer sells rattle can and gallons of their paint. Both are reasonably priced and the colors match well. I've found that sometimes between aerosol and can, a color may dry out to a slightly different shade. I paid around $40 dollars for the gallon from my local dealer. It's Nason FastDry 1K (2414-3363) Pre Reduce Yellow. It's a single component paint but its Acrylic. Yes, it's a water based paint which means you are very limited in your primer selection and they dont recommend direct to metal application. Can't use Rustoleum or any oil based primer......I tried it and it got all sort of weird. So basically, the can paint they sell is dogshit. The aerosol they sell seems to be good quality though.....happy with it and I think its only 6 bucks a can or something so I bought extra.

I went to the local Sherwin Williams industrial store with my gallon of paint I got from Vermeer. They suggested KEM 4000 which is a Marine/Machinery single component Acrylic Alkyd...….yes its a hybrid. The paint sets up quickly like an Acrylic but has oil binders so it's technically an oil based paint and they assured me I could undercoat or overcoat KEM 4000 with OIL or WATER primer/paint without issue. I have attached a picture of the color mix that you can bring in for them to reference. Please note that it's called "Vermeer Yellow" on my Sherwin Williams account so if you go in looking for "Vermeer Yellow" nothing is gonna show up in their system.

As a side note - I have a hard-on for powder coating and have been sandblasting and coating anything off this 252 that can fit in my cabinet. During my hunt to find Vermeer colored powder (requesting various samples) I found that NEW Caterpillar Yellow is an EXACT match. I powder coated a test piece and aerosol sprayed over part of it and its dead nuts match. This is what I bought.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Interpon-P...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Regardless if you are looking for powder or liquid, you may have good luck finding a Vermeer match by hunting for NEW Caterpillar yellow if you want to avoid having to get custom mix paint. I went down this rabbit hole and found that I couldn't reliably find new Caterpillar yellow and it became too much of a damn headache. I would order a color that is absolutely NEW Cat yellow but the can would show up with OLD yellow. After calling these paint companies, they don't know **** about the colors they sell so I gave up.

FYI, caterpillar has three yellows. They have OLD Caterpillar yellow which is more of an orangish yellow; In the late 70s they changed to their new yellow. And then in the 2000's they slightly adjusted their shade again but its very slight. I dont know if the powder I got in above link is the new yellow or the new new yellow. Rustoleum sells Caterpillar Yellow in a can and aerosol but its the OLD color and doesn't match. I have a ton of other color info for companies like Majic and Krylon but Ill save you the guys the snoozefest. PM if you want more info.

thanks,

Drew

 

[dstyduhar]

Hey guys,

So this weekend I went after the drivetrain on this 252 which turned into a massive pain in the ass. If your horizontal boom pin was rusted and tough to get out then I can almost guarantee all the crap in the drivetrain is seized too. I dont know if its because Vermeer assembled all this crap without anti-seize or what. Maybe its from being towed around on a trailer and getting all that brine up under the unit. Maybe both. Regardless, I wanted to put together a play by play on what I went through to help folks from wasting a bunch of time like I did.

Hydraulic Propel Motor REMOVAL

I started by loosening the hydraulic motor bolts, removing the shaft bolt/washer and then backing off the adjuster. As a heads up, even if you back off the adjuster all the way I could not get the chain off with the sprockets still on. Ok, so according to the exploded diagram, the chain has a removable link but either Vermeer or the previous owner put the chain on with this removable link on the BACK so you cant get to it anyway. So stupid. The chain was pretty rusty so I just got the bolt cutters out and snipped it. BTW this is #50 chain.

The Technical Manual says to remove FOUR set screws but my sprocket only has TWO. I tripped out on this for a while thinking I was missing something. Its possible the sprocket I have is NOT factory. Both of the set screws in my sprocket were rounded out (of course) but I got them out without drilling. When I encounter a rounded set screw, I will keep rounding it out until I cant feel any resistance at all in the direction of removal. I then use a long torx driver bit of the next size up and tap into the set screw and back it out like that. You want to do your best to align the torx points of the driver with the hex points of the set screw if that makes any sense. You can usually feel when they are aligned. These were super rusty and I sprayed everything with PB Blaster the night before which honestly didn't seem to do much. I tried a three jaw puller to remove the sprocket and it broke. Its tough to get a good grab on the sprocket because you are basically just pulling on the back of the teeth.

Ok so next I drilled two holes 180 degrees from each other on the face of the sprocket with the plan to tap the holes for a 7/16 bolt and use my steering wheel puller to get it off. The sprocket I have is hardened steel so you really need carbide. If you are poor like me, I highly recommend the carbide tipped GLASS cutting bits Harbor Freight sells. I know it sounds crazy but they kick all sorts of ass. As with anything carbide, if you chip the tip you are screwed. After drilling the holes, I tried to tap the sprocket but the metal was just too damn hard to tap by hand. I tried giving the tap a lead in by slightly over drilling the entrance of the hole but just couldn't get things goin. Sure you could over drill and try to tap shallow threads but I wouldnt bother. https://www.harborfreight.com/carbide-tip-glass-and-tile-cutting-drill-bit-set-6-pc-61617.html

The next approach was to weld 7/16 nuts over the drilled holes to try and accomplish the same thing. I'm not a professional welder or anything, just a guy with a standard 220v MIG and 85/15 bottle. I don't know what steel the sprocket is made of but welding did not work for me. I cleaned up the surface of the sprocket so it was bare metal but the moment my wire would touch the sprocket it would pop. The weld on the nut was good but it wouldn't flow to the sprocket. Ok so I screwed around with that for a while and gave up. I know some guys like putting a torch and a LOT of heat to rusted/seized parts but the front seal of the hydraulic motor is very close so I don't think that much heat is good here.

So here is what actually worked for me. I have done this before in similar situations and I hope it helps someone. I used one of those glass cutting bits to drill a hole in the face of the sprocket right above the keyway so hole will intersect the set screw hole that's over the keyway. Once that is done, I used a cut off wheel to cut as much as possible between the hole I drilled and the set screw hole. Using a heavy chisel, smack down into this groove you cut and it will crack the rest of the metal and open up the sprocket enough to free it from the shaft. Once I did this, I used another three jaw puller to get it off easily and the motor comes out. Hope that makes sense.

As reference, the sprocket I have is a Martin 50BS16HT for 1" shaft. You can find these on ebay from 15-25 bucks.

I'll be going after the axle stuff tomorrow.

thanks,

Drew

 

[jhg]

I wanted to circle back around after a few years and make some comments regarding the Vermeer 252. In ten years my sc252 has brought my business well into the 6 figures worth of revenue.
I read many comments that dismiss this machine for a variety of reasons and yes there are many alternatives that are available. I know well the 252's shortcomings. My point is that if you do not have a lot of cash to purchase a more expensive machine (ie: newer, larger, diesel) don't let nay-sayers push you away from a used 252.

It can make you money.

Yeah, you need to be smart about educating yourself regarding what to look out for (and in my experience plan on adding $1,000.00 in re-building or upgrades to the purchase price) and keep in mind its the motor that is the most spendy part so know how to tell if its got life left and how much, before you go out and start looking to buy a machine.

Stump grinding is not rocket science, but there are tricks to learn that increase productivity and make jobs go much smoother with less work. So keep your head on and don't let others tell you how to make decisions. Take their opinions and weigh them against common sense and the long track record that is in the threads all over the web regarding this machine.

I will repeat what I said earlier. The 252, with a 25hp kohler and yellowjacket teeth made my company 6 figures in revenue. The first 3 yrs we were strickly a stump removal biz and in those years, during one of the worst economic downturns in recent history, our revenue was over 50k each year just from that little Vermeer 252. Not a bad start considering a lot of people were losing their homes, getting laid off and otherwise feeling the crunch.
We built onto this solid base of known income provided by the 252 to buy (over time) a 90hp diesel chipper, a 20,000lb chip truck, a gooseneck dump trailer and a compact wheel loader with grapple. Not to mention a quiver of chainsaws, climbing gear, rigging kits, while paying the usual insurance costs, etc.
The 252 gave us the financial foundation to grow a tree business. Trust me, there are stupider ways to start and grow a tree business than how we did it knowing how much money we could count on worst case scenario.

So we have decided to keep the 252 rather than drop 20+ thousand on a bigger used whatever to replace it. We are putting on the 35 hp Vanguard and doing a total re-build for about 3500.00. (Motor and muffler came to 2400.00 including freight as of 3/2021)

Grind smart.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

@jhg

So glad to hear I’m not the only one left that thinks this machine is profitable. I’m going one more season I hope on my 27hp and then also plan to purchase a 35 hp vanguard and retro fit it myself next winter. $2200 gets me the motor with the correct shaft. I imagine I’ll come in with similar or less final costs as you expect. I think with 35hp this machine will get me several more good years, it’s a 2012. So long as Vermeer continues to make the stuff that other people don’t that is.

I’m just a part time stumper. 252, 046/28”, MS60/36”. Those three machines make me my money.

Good luck this season!

Bruce

 

[Grinditup]

Just stumbled apon this thread.

This is a simple mod [if you can weld a little bit]
to actually make use of the annoying safety bar .
Made simply with some 1x1 and some expanded metal.

Grind stump ,lower bar ,shove mulch over stump hole,go over lawn with a plastic rake.

I have done this to 2 of my own grinders ,and on my cousin's in ark.
Works great.

Btw,the reason for the expanded metal is 1,it's lite,and 2,it does not obstruct your view when folded up with a bungee,like most people do with the guard anyway.
Got the idea from seeing the chip blade on my friends bigger rayco that still had all the paint on it because they put it on the wrong end of the machine.



Hope it helps .



BTW also .
Love the idea of the undersize pulley to make the ##### locomote faster.
Gonna look into that for sure.

Could you send me the picture of the blade. I want to do something

 

[RyeThomas]

So im bringing this way old thread up as I’m late to the party. Picking up a 2004 252 tomorrow. Trying to source the following

repair/service manual
engine service kit, plug, oil filter, air filters, etc
hydraulic filter, fluid recommend
good place for all parts, bearings, extras, etc

Is there a go to shop or online person here that still deals with this stuff? I looked and all I could find on EBAY was stuff from China, I’d rather go OEM or at least OEM quality if possible.

I need a side gig for when my kids actually go back to school this year and I loath running my Toro Sgr13 manual machine. Thanks Gents, Rye.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

So im bringing this way old thread up as I’m late to the party. Picking up a 2004 252 tomorrow. Trying to source the following

repair/service manual
engine service kit, plug, oil filter, air filters, etc
hydraulic filter, fluid recommend
good place for all parts, bearings, extras, etc

Is there a go to shop or online person here that still deals with this stuff? I looked and all I could find on EBAY was stuff from China, I’d rather go OEM or at least OEM quality if possible.

I need a side gig for when my kids actually go back to school this year and I loath running my Toro Sgr13 manual machine. Thanks Gents, Rye.

Welcome 252 brother! I as well was late to the party a few years ago. I have done most of the mods in this thread except a bigger motor and the plow. A 252 set up like this and a big saw have been working well for me as a part time gig. Very well.

I’ll send you some manuals I have later. One is small enough to go through AS. Other has to be email.

For the motor stuff it’s a fairly standard Koehler they just pull the ID tags off. For the machine parts some have part #s where some of the number crosses and some don’t. A lot can be found quality aftermarket once you know what to buy. The chain is a standard Whitney 50 or something like that for example, comes in the Whitney bag in a Vermeer box. Only thing not made by Vermeer I think I actually needed to buy from them was the muffler, the others I could find sat too close to the clutch housing in my option so I just went oem.
Good luck!
Bruce
“UncleRoots”

 

[RyeThomas]

Welcome 252 brother! I as well was late to the party a few years ago. I have done most of the mods in this thread except a bigger motor and the plow. A 252 set up like this and a big saw have been working well for me as a part time gig. Very well.

I’ll send you some manuals I have later. One is small enough to go through AS. Other has to be email.

For the motor stuff it’s a fairly standard Koehler they just pull the ID tags off. For the machine parts some have part #s where some of the number crosses and some don’t. A lot can be found quality aftermarket once you know what to buy. The chain is a standard Whitney 50 or something like that for example, comes in the Whitney bag in a Vermeer box. Only thing not made by Vermeer I think I actually needed to buy from them was the muffler, the others I could find sat too close to the clutch housing in my option so I just went oem.
Good luck!
Bruce
“UncleRoots”

Got the manuals, thank you very much for your help and time. Ordered most things off the existing part numbers.

Im probably going to spend some decent money on Triax premium HLP hydraulic oil and change the fluid, then start running full synthetic 10/30 in the Kohler. Machines a shop kept 03 with 1899 hrs, engine is an 07 so must be a replacement.

Now to go thru the thread again and decide on a tooth set up. It has the Vermeer S Pro style teeth. Guy I purchased it from has several grinders/setups and said the greenteeth are a little aggressive on the small machine and bang it around more. Uses greenteeth on his larger stuff. Said the tooth set up on it (Vermeer pro) while not the fastest cutting is the smoothest and probably best option for a rookie operator like me.

Said his buddy has a sc252 and went Rayco teeth and is very happy. The Rayco seem similar to the Leonardi Tomahawk.

my options without changing the wheel:

Get a new set of Vermeer Pro S from American Cutting Edge for around $150
Get 16 new pockets and Leonardi Tomahawk $376
(can’t seem to find info on swapping to Rayco)?
16 tooth green teeth set up $330. Might be a lot for a little machine
6 tooth (900 series) green teeth set up $140. Interesting, less teeth, possibly more speed with less drag? IDK


So I have a green wheel for my bench grinder and the smaller wheel for greenteeth. I’m just not sure which way to go. So before I spend another dime, what say you guys?
Thanks for your help, Ryan.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Got the manuals, thank you very much for your help and time. Ordered most things off the existing part numbers.

Im probably going to spend some decent money on Triax premium HLP hydraulic oil and change the fluid, then start running full synthetic 10/30 in the Kohler. Machines a shop kept 03 with 1899 hrs, engine is an 07 so must be a replacement.

Now to go thru the thread again and decide on a tooth set up. It has the Vermeer S Pro style teeth. Guy I purchased it from has several grinders/setups and said the greenteeth are a little aggressive on the small machine and bang it around more. Uses greenteeth on his larger stuff. Said the tooth set up on it (Vermeer pro) while not the fastest cutting is the smoothest and probably best option for a rookie operator like me.

Said his buddy has a sc252 and went Rayco teeth and is very happy. The Rayco seem similar to the Leonardi Tomahawk.

my options without changing the wheel:

Get a new set of Vermeer Pro S from American Cutting Edge for around $150
Get 16 new pockets and Leonardi Tomahawk $376
(can’t seem to find info on swapping to Rayco)?
16 tooth green teeth set up $330. Might be a lot for a little machine
6 tooth (900 series) green teeth set up $140. Interesting, less teeth, possibly more speed with less drag? IDK


So I have a green wheel for my bench grinder and the smaller wheel for greenteeth. I’m just not sure which way to go. So before I spend another dime, what say you guys?
Thanks for your help, Ryan.


View attachment 914572View attachment 914573

Hi Ryan

I have not heard of that brand of synthetic oil but with my pump pulley changed I did go synthetic as well, Amsoil tho.

In the motor I just run cheap oil and change it a lot. STP oil and filters are the cheapest I could find and I prob never put 50 hours on it before changing it.

I run the 6 tooth setup from green teeth and love it. Works best if I keep em really sharp so I flip and switch a few times in a really full day. With only 6 teeth it takes no time at all. I’d have to say the green teeth, hydro pump pulley, and disabling the auto sweep is the most bang for the buck mod your gonna get on this machine.

I have not used other teeth except the factory yellow jackets I think they’re called that came with my machine. You can flip them, I couldn’t sharpen them. After a day or two I’d want to flip and rotate them but it’s a bit early so I’d get slowed down till I do, and there was many many more teeth to switch.

I used to sharpen my own green teeth but it’s just not worth it anymore for me. If I have over 100 to do it takes me days, and bills sharpening service will sharpen that many 900s for not even $300, so I send them out now. Sharpening carbide isn’t good for ones health anyway, even with a mask and a vacuum with a hepa filter on it sucking the dust off as it’s being sharpened I know I don’t catch everything.

If you go green teeth get two of those starter sets so you have an extra set of pockets and bolts. I’ve never broken a pocket but I’ve broke the bolts a hanfull of times and come ready to switch them on every job.

I think that’s everything you asked about. Just my .02 on it all. Hopefully others chime in but this thread isnt really all that active, great resource, it seems every year or two someone like me or you or this guy Drew gets a 252 and adds to it, just not that active anymore.
Bruce

 

[RyeThomas]

Know this is a pretty dead thread but I can’t seem to find the upper shaft pulley part #180007297
I don’t have a bearing/pulley shop local.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Know this is a pretty dead thread but I can’t seem to find the upper shaft pulley part #180007297
I don’t have a bearing/pulley shop local.

I have sourced both the “cutter wheel belt” side pulleys and “shaft locators”(I forget the right term) on eBay NOS very inexpensive in the past. I have not replaced the jack shaft belt side stuff but I remember the pulley(actually refereed to as a sheave) had the standard part numbers on them. Once your familiar with the “manufacturing world” terminology and part numbers they are easy to locate.

Clean the dirt off find numbers on the sheave and they’ll be easy enough to locate, or at least used to be. The inside part is ordered by the inside the sheave diameter I believe, bolt pattern, and of course shaft diameter.

Pretty sure I take your meaning correctly, motor side jackshaft pulley. If you mean the shaft itself that’s even easier, just find the right size diameter and length and I think it’s 1/4” keyed on both sides. I found one with double keys on both ends.

Hope this helps

 

[RyeThomas]

Found I have an awesome Vermeer dealer in Manassas Va, called them up and got the parts right away. Knew what they were talking about, he told me I would probably break the hub bushing. Sure enough I did but I ordered one thanks to the dealer advice.
Should be done with chasing, tightening, eating drive belts and losing cutter head power. My pulley/sheave was worn the heck out.
Really want to give her a go now, last job was awesome with the new Greenteeth set up till an hour or so,in the belt was slipping and I had to complete the next 4 hours with kit gloves barely taking a bite Or she would slip.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Hello Boys

I finally made a plow for my 252 like some other gent did on here a while back. Same principle, can keep it up or down, and mine comes all the way off.

Here’s a couple quick videos of the progress, all that’s left now is paint:



Happy Holidays to All!
Bruce