lowering device

[Crispin Hoar]

When I do a take down or remove large limbs I use a port-a-wrap. The other day I needed to assist the crew below and take the load so we set a figure 8 in the tree. My question is what do you us as a lowering device in the tree?

 

[treeclimber165]

On removals I use a couple wraps on a stub.

Several months ago I attempted to use a figure 8 as a friction device for lowering. I tried it several times myself, as well as instructing different groundmen on different crews on how to use it. After 4-5 different situations where we tried to use it, we all decided it was a PITA and a definite step backward from taking a wrap on the trunk. Lowering was jerky and unpredictable, mostly because of the rope twist. The rope twist was making the situation unacceptably dangerous so I pitched the figure 8 into the bottom of the truck box. It is still laying there somewhere.

I wouldn't mind getting a porta-wrap one day.

 

[treeman82]

I know some people will just take a wrap around the trunk or branch if they have to take the load. Others will use a figure 8. I had seen a small porta-wrap in a lawn mower shop over the summer for use in the tree. Might be worth checking into, I think it retailed for $89.00

 

[treeguy347]

Try an ATC. Black Diamond is the company that makes em. Its a belay device for rock climbing. You get better control and easier braking than an 8, and they don't twist the rope.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Would succh a 'stitch plate' be good for 500#loads?

i kinda look for stobs, kinda keeping porty and boat kleat in mind.
And sweat it in tight from the running bowline back. Besides 2 seperate supports giving more strength/security + friction (some of whidch is allowed to dissipate instead of all the friction at once), also gives a place between the supports for sweting in tight even remotely with karab and line.

 

[treeguy347]

I don't know the WLL for the ATC, but I've belayed 200# people taking falls on the thing. It's a lot easier to stop 'em with an ATC than an eight. The ATC isn't a stitch plate technically, it's a tube device. You can use an eight like an ATC also, rather than the way most people do. I wouldn't drop a big limb into it, but for times when there isn't a high shock load, I think the biggest problem you would have is heat.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

This is a question that a good climbing friend and I have been discussing. Having learned good welding skills at my day job, I took a regular rope snap and welded a small piece of tubing with a pin on it. With a 10 ft. section of rope it can be attached to the tree with a girth hitch. It acts like a small port-a-wrap. For use up in the tree was the reason we made this. We haven't done any testing on this yet, but time will tell.

 

[d kraus]

I use a Munter hitch with a pear biner on a sling. It can be the rigging point if need be or just some friction. I find it very handy, I descend down the pull line on a Munter hitch as well. I'm not rigging down 500 lb stuff on my own though.

 

[treeman82]

I have a question, why would a climber need to lower a piece of brush or wood on his / her own? I mean I know that you might need the ground persons to drag something out of an area, or do whatever... but I mean if that's the case, you should have another person on your ground crew, right? I dunno...

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think a muenter is haard on rope as it bites against itself working rubbing as it travels against it's own direction around a tight bight and corkscrews.

Sometimes a climber lowering can make sense as it frees up another man and a climber has that bird eye's view of how to just lay it in right etc.

A lot of the rigs i make and play with are real high friction on high, pretightenedd, and then sset to selff tighten as slow hinging takes place. Sometimes, there is so much friction applied it is easier if i have control of releif of tension in the line.

One of my load sharing strategies is to run a line from the load to a support, then lace back to where the load comes off. So that their is more support, when few supports, and as the weight of the load slowly comes off it's host spar, it is borne by the primary support, that shares the load back to the host spar. So as the host spar has load releived, it takes a percentage back on, as i know it can hold it! Especially just a percentage of it, at a lower leveraged position of hang and less leveraged position of pull on host also. in this case the line is right there, but sometimes still have guys set.

 

[Crispin Hoar]

friction device

Thanks guys this helped. rich could you post a picture of the lowering device you made? It sounds exactly like what I was thinking about. Something small that didn't pigtail the rope or cause exessive wear. What I want is a small port-a-wrap I could use in the tree when needed.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Re: friction device

Originally posted by Crispin Hoar
Thanks guys this helped. rich could you post a picture of the lowering device you made? It sounds exactly like what I was thinking about. Something small that didn't pigtail the rope or cause exessive wear. What I want is a small port-a-wrap I could use in the tree when needed.

If I can get my hands on a digital camera I will post a picture of the lowering device. If not I will get them converted as there are several other pics that I want to post .

 

[Greg]

I have the PWIII, it is soo much better than wraps on the tree. You can dial it in depending on the weight of what you are lowering, 1/2 wrap, 1,2 --rarely would you need more than 2 wraps. If you use one just once you'll be sold on it. I had my ground guy lowering down 3-400# chunks last week all by himself, with the long peices he'd lower it, tie it off, trim off some branches, lower some more... very easy to use with great control. and in tree PW would be great, I'd like to see those pics too.
Friend of mine has an aluminium PWIII, much lighter than mine, but you don't see them around too much, kinda pricy.
greg

 

[YUKON 659]

Anybody ever heard of a T-bar? I was talking to a guy tonight that does a lot of large removals...says he prefers this to any other lowering device. Not sure if this is the actual name or just some type of equipment "slang'' name.

Jeff

 

[treeguy347]

Page 50 of Midwest Arborist Supplies 2002 catalog lists a "Large Port-A-Wrap" for 1" rope that looks like a funny "T" They also have the PW3

 

[treeclimber165]

That's the old, original style PW. Sherrill had them in their catalogs 5 years ago.

 

[treeguy347]

Ahh, I've never seen one. I don't know if they have 'em in the '03 catalog or not, I'd have to look at it again. Couple more years, they might be a collector's item on eBay!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i've got an original steel one. Put an eyebolt down the center of it to the threaaded 'amon'(?) nut on the other end. This is for pretightening, straight, straight into the T-nose. For a while i worked on anything of any size had to be pretightened into porty. Sometimes you go thru phases like that, finding all you need to know, so you know when to draw it out quick from your holster like a gunfighter. Nothing beats pretighteending straight into the nose.

Well.....Put Porty on 1 ton, pretighten for 400#+ load no impact fairly safely; especially w/chock and turn tires. Fairly positive off a full dump pretighten lightly to sweep off house a large branch (tree size with 5/8). Especially good throwlined on a horizontal head rigged out, and climber brings line for butt 20' or so from throwlined head, and cuts into pretightend cradle. Lower thru trusty Porty, more than 2 wraps.

Real nice to get almost the same effects by the load tightening it's own line in the first few degrees of movement on hinge; with meticulously sweated in high friction sometimes, lending more options by requirng less support strength, especially if line is traced down the support to spread out force and gain more immediate friction at the same time. A tight line is a tight line, if you can get it to equalize resistance(line) to force(load) you have float. This can be achieved thru self tightening sometimes as well as pretightening, as long as you don't have to lift, nature gives you the option of pitting the load agianst itself; and choosing leveraged points to do so.

Porty is magical, simple instrument; couldn't imagine blocking and catching on the same host spar without it or something of higher order.......

 

[Tom Dunlap]

You young 'uns must not have been around when we discussed overhead lowering devices on the ISA site. Lots of advantages, including lowering the load on the gin point.

Go back and look in the archives at ISA.

Tom

 

[treemd]

I have a question, why would a climber need to lower a piece of brush or wood on his / her own? I mean I know that you might need the ground persons to drag something out of an area, or do whatever... but I mean if that's the case, you should have another person on your ground crew, right? I dunno...

Had my arm broken by two would-be ground workers hired by my employer Worst part is, I knew that I should have skidded the skinny one before we got out of the truck! Sometimes, you just have to be able to do it yourself, unless you have COMPLETE control over (or cofidence in) whoever is doing the lower 1/2 of the job.