lowering device

[treeclimber165]

I agree. I've been placed in situations many times where I did not have qualified guys on the ground. Simply brush draggers. I had 3 choices: Come out of the tree and walk off, trust my life and health in the hands of obviously unqualified persons (who could hurt me badly WHEN they screwed up), or rope the limbs down myself.
I do not like walking away from a job when I am qualified to do it and need the paycheck, and I do not like putting my life in the hands of brush draggers (unqualified groundies). Therefore it is not uncommon for me to grunt through a job by roping some limbs down myself.

On the other hand, there is nothing more exhilarating than rigging out a huge job with a great rope man. I thoroughly enjoy rigging with someone whom I trust on the other end of the rope.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

A good ground man is a great thing for a climber, but he should still be able to do a safe job with a new guy. It will require taking smaller pieces and idiot proofing the operations.
Groundmen come and go, that's a fact, which means a climber needs to be able to work with new guys.
A very difficult removal done with unexperienced ground men will take more time, but still should be able to be done safely.

 

[treemd]

10-4 to your comment Mike...

but he should still be able to do a safe job with a new guy. It will require taking smaller pieces and idiot proofing the operations.

I should have said that I let two groundies break my arm. I was the one who put myself into the position where it could happen. Should have taken inexperience (the good one) and plain stupidity mixed with bad attitude(the skinny one) into account when planning the removal. I also agree that doing a removal with a competent rope hand is pure joy. Nice to know that all it takes is a look, a nod, thumbs up and LAUNCH a nice chunk.
Codie

 

[FBerkel]

"Groundmen come and go"

--Generally true, but here's a notion I've thought about for years: Why not pay your groundies enough extra in the hope that they'll stick around long enough to help you profit from their experience? It seems that nobody wants to be seen as foolish by overpaying help, but it may very well pay off in the long run, when you account for all the hours it takes to train new employees.

Also, I have always been a believer in the 2 or 3 climber crew. Very few ground-only personel realize how to handle a line as well as most climbers, who have been on the other end of the line enough to know what to do. The 25% or so extra employment expense generally gets more than made up for by significantly greater productivity.

Just my 1.9, realize it's not always so clear cut.

 

[Stumper]

The "whys" regarding the climber roping things down are many. As one who generally works alone and occassionally ropes stuff out alone (this statement should not be construed as an endorsement for solo operations) I have found a figure eight quite useful. I've noted the complaints of Brian and others about rope twist but have not had a problem. I seem to have stumbled upon the "right" rope at the beginning. At the same time I started using an eight in the tree I bought a rope for light rigging aloft. --3/8 HI-power. Hi-Power and Poly-Plus are Wellington products from their commercial cordage line. Poly-olefin core strands covered with polyester. 3 strand construction-medium lay. I bought this stuff for its light weight. The 3/8 is 3000 lb tensile and weighs 4 lbs per hundred feet.(it is cheap too-under .30 per foot) I use it for rigging pieces under 200lbs so it has plenty of safety factor. It handles great!

When I have several pieces to lower and noone there to untie my rope I rig the piece on a choker/sling and run my lowering rope through a 'biner on the sling then tie off on my spar. The bight of the rope is rigged through the 8 tied to the spar. When I have lowered the piece to the ground I can untie the rope end and retrieve it through the 'biner and rig up again. rigged this way 100+ pounds will simply hang on the eight with no hand on the control-you have to feed it down to lower. (DO NOT drop loads onto an unsecured line ) I seldom NEED an 8-I used wraps on stubs for years but I find that the eight makes a handy false crotch that helps things go smoother in light lowering.

 

[FBerkel]

Stumper,

Pretty cool technique! I've used a munter off a karab on my saddle for a quick set-up on one-man light lowering, (using a crotch or f.c. to lower off of), but had to abandon the line after both ends were used.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Fred's idea about a crew of climbers is shear genius. I also like the idea of paying more and keeping quality help.
I'm working on a two man crew, sometimes three, with another climber(s). The jobs go way faster and moral is much higher. Work gets equally shared, climbing and clean up.
It's a pleasure to work with an equal, rather than some useless teenage pothead, not that that isn't entertaining sometimes.
Unfortunately, come spring, the two of us will be split up and form two crews, hiring on a couple 20 year old kids to be ground"men". As I am not the owner, the decision is not mine to make.

Stumper's lowering technique is great. If the tree is in a small back yard and the ground crew can't keep up, a climber should be able to lower stuff by himself. This frees up the ground crew to get the stuff moved.
A figure 8 is a tool that takes some skill to use, like any other tool it has limits. Knowing what rope to use, what length rope, what size 8, and how to connect it, all make it work. If you are having trouble with twists, you are using it wrong.
Like Spyder, I perfer an 8 over a munter, it seems easier on ropes.