lowering line in crotches vs blocks?

[Kneejerk Bombas]

If your using a block your taking to smaller peices and taking too long.IMO

A block is required on 0.01% of tree work.

Unless you are a painfully slow climber, you can bury your ground crew in a hurry. Then things come to a grinding halt while you wait for them to untangle things. Most days I wait for the ground crew, they don't wait for me. So a few seconds hanging a block doesn't ever slow things down.

If it looks like they need something to do, I just tear around for a minute or two and get a pile for them to move while I hang the bull rope.
In residential work, there are times when things just have to get roped down, or it's faster to rope them down.

Really, a block is never required, it just works better most times. It's so much faster and easier. To get the rope back, just one quick tug and the end flies up to you. You don't have to sit and wait for the groundie to pull and pull on the slack.

If you're not using a pulley on most removals, force yourself to try it for a few days on every limb you rope. You'll see the advantages pretty quick.

Same with not using a port-a-wrap. How much time do you waste wrapping around a tree? Take a few second to set the brake at the beginning of the job, it'll save so much screwing around during the removal. The climber is up there waiting and you're running around the tree with the tail of the rope, and then running the other way to undo it.

 

[Climb020]

Same with not using a port-a-wrap. How much time do you waste wrapping around a tree? Take a few second to set the brake at the beginning of the job, it'll save so much screwing around during the removal. The climber is up there waiting and you're running around the tree with the tail of the rope, and then running the other way to undo it.

Mark Adams and Mark Chisholm did a little time test with 2 guys, one taking wraps on the tree and the other on a porty, at a vermeer demo a year ago. It showed very clearly which way was much faster and easier then the other. But I still hurd plenty of old timers saying they don't have the time to mess with all this new crap and taking a rap on the trunk has been working for them for years so why change.

 

[Blinky]

[...] But I still hurd plenty of old timers saying they don't have the time to mess with all this new crap and taking a rap on the trunk has been working for them for years so why change.

I just love to hear that same old rap about 'it's good enough' cuz they always did it that way. I say that about stuff sometimes too but it's really an excuse to avoid learning something new... which gets harder as you get older. I don't give anybody any crap about it but I don't take any for using modern techniques either.

For me, I like a block and a porty on anything heavy because the ground guys can easily judge how many wraps to get the piece down safely without screwing around trying to wrap and unwrap the rope from a tree trunk. It's just more consistent, looks more professional too (not that it is... just looks that way).

On small pieces over target I use 1/2" XTC and usually a natural crotch.

 

[beowulf343]

And as far as the rope pulling out with blocks, I request the groundie who unties the pieces to put a knot in the end of the rope. I explain very carefully when they send me the rope up without a knot. I make it very clear that I will not be happy what so ever if I have to re-climb the tree to just put the rope back. Really sucks with mulitple points.

Actually i like a quick loop in the end a bit better. That way in case i drop it and it sucks back to the block, i can often reach the loop with a polesaw and pull it back.

Really, a block is never required, it just works better most times. It's so much faster and easier. To get the rope back, just one quick tug and the end flies up to you. You don't have to sit and wait for the groundie to pull and pull on the slack.

True, i usually use 5/8" and if your block is set high the weight of the rope is usually enough to pull it through the block. My groundies usually untie, swing the rope back into my hands then leave it alone until i'm tied off and ready. I can feed the rope back through the pulley without them even needing to pull on it by simply letting it run through my hands.

 

[mckeetree]

I just love to hear that same old rap about 'it's good enough' cuz they always did it that way. I say that about stuff sometimes too but it's really an excuse to avoid learning something new... which gets harder as you get older. I don't give anybody any crap about it but I don't take any for using modern techniques either.

For me, I like a block and a porty on anything heavy because the ground guys can easily judge how many wraps to get the piece down safely without screwing around trying to wrap and unwrap the rope from a tree trunk. It's just more consistent, looks more professional too (not that it is... just looks that way).

On small pieces over target I use 1/2" XTC and usually a natural crotch.

Yea, it is. Ever see a door knocker use a block?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I have 3 blocks and several rescue pullies, I use them regularly. I will often natural crotch too, sometimes with a central pulley and crotches for redirects. Carbiners as redirects and light pullies are very beneficail too when the rope is running alkl over the tree to keep the down end running fair to the friction break.

the plusses that blocks give (to repeat many above)

• consistancy of friction
• reduction of friction
• having rigging points of your choice, not just where nature allows
• having multiple rigging points and still have one man be able to pull the rope up to you

The two biggest plusses for natural crotch are speed of application and a skilled practitioner can apply friction in the tree with unskilled labor on the ground

As for oldschoolers who don't see the use, that is because they have never seen it and will only be moved when they do.

 

[juststumps]

Your back with Taco bell? Your days must be numbered then too. Why else put an eight up there? So once the mess is on the ground you can clean it up while he goes to retrieve it. You know them games.


And as far as the rope pulling out with blocks, I request the groundie who unties the pieces to put a knot in the end of the rope. I explain very carefully when they send me the rope up without a knot. I make it very clear that I will not be happy what so ever if I have to re-climb the tree to just put the rope back. Really sucks with mulitple points.

day to day thing,,, only me, rick, and the southerners left.... everyone else is spraying.....


YOU SHOULD HAVE COME DOWN SUNDAY!!!!!!!

 

[lees trees]

like,, dummy put a figure 8 up inthe tree, and came down.... told me to cut... big a$$ oak limb....... needless to say,,, my esteemed partner took a little ride... BY THE WAY ???? IS IT ME<<< BUT WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND,,, SETS A FIGURE EIGHT IN A TREE HIGH<<< THAN COMES DOWN TO WORK THE LINE FROM THE GROUND?????

I use a figure 8 for lowering. How did Mr Bell use the figure 8? like a pulley? Please splain. thanks

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You can hang a figure 8 in a tree and use it like a pulley.
It works ok if you are lowering the piece yourself and it's a bit heavy to hold, but not something I'd do too often. Figure 8s tend to twist up the tail of the rope which is a pain, they aren't very fast when it comes to retrieving the tail of the rope, it's usually smarter to just do a natural crotch rig.

What I don't get about the quote is if he put the 8 up in the tree and came down, how did he cut the limb from the ground?

Also, the first thing I teach a groundman about lowering is to never go for a ride. If you can't hold the limb, you need to let the rope clutch through your gloves. Once you start getting dragged all over the place, bad things happen, not to mention, it looks totally unprofessional because you're out of control.
Always set up so there is no chance of anyone getting hurt, even if you let go of the rope.
A gutter or other property can easily be replaced that's what insurance is for, employee death or injuries will kill a company.

 

[lees trees]

Thanks Mike for your input I use a figure 8 on occasion and yea the twist the rope some. I never use gloves ever but have seen hands get smoked nothing like blisters to help you pay attention.