bookerdog
The New Champ
What dim do you guys cut your lumber up at. I was cutting some fir slats up to 2 by 6 and relized a 2 by 6 is really a 1 1/2 by 5 1/2. Just wondering if they still make brackets that fit real 2 by 6
lumber dim.
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woodshop
Addicted to ArboristSite
...well you won't find them at the big box or regular hardware store. Maybe somebody somewhere specialized makes something like that. I've never seen it. My 100 year old balloon framed house has real 2 inch by 4 inch 2x4's, 25 ft long studs that go from basement clear up to attic one shot. But they didn't use metal hangers and such back then. This house also has other odd dimensions, like 2 3/4 by 9 inch floor joists. Try finding that in a lumber yard.
woodshop said:...well you won't find them at the big box or regular hardware store. Maybe somebody somewhere specialized makes something like that. I've never seen it. My 100 year old balloon framed house has real 2 inch by 4 inch 2x4's, 25 ft long studs that go from basement clear up to attic one shot. But they didn't use metal hangers and such back then. This house also has other odd dimensions, like 2 3/4 by 9 inch floor joists. Try finding that in a lumber yard.
Thats called Ballon Framing, our house is built the same way, built in 1937.
woodshop
Addicted to ArboristSite
beg to differ with ya Casey, according to wikipedia encyclopedia, its called balloon framing, as I said. Here is part of their blurb...
Balloon framing is method of wood construction used primarily in Scandinavia, Canada and the United States. In the U.S., this method was introduced by Augustine Taylor (1796-1891) in Chicago. It utilizes long continuous framing members that run from sill to eave line with intermediate floor structures nailed to them. Once popular when lumber was plentiful, balloon framing has been largely replaced by platform framing.
They go on to explain the advantages and disadvantages etc.between balloon and platform framing. Tried to find something on Ballon framing... came up empty. If I missed something, let me know.
Balloon framing is method of wood construction used primarily in Scandinavia, Canada and the United States. In the U.S., this method was introduced by Augustine Taylor (1796-1891) in Chicago. It utilizes long continuous framing members that run from sill to eave line with intermediate floor structures nailed to them. Once popular when lumber was plentiful, balloon framing has been largely replaced by platform framing.
They go on to explain the advantages and disadvantages etc.between balloon and platform framing. Tried to find something on Ballon framing... came up empty. If I missed something, let me know.
Newfie
Addicted to ArboristSite
I don't think balloon framing even meets code here in Mass. Something about no fire blocking and whoosh the house goes up quick.
On topic, I would check out Simpson Ties to see what they have in their line of products. They are online and if any source is going to have it readily available it would be them.
For thickness I mill the lumber 4/4, 5/4, 6/4 etc. The woodmizer scale figures the green thickness to allow for shrinkage so you can plane it to achieve dimensional stock thicknesses as opposed to the nominal, although most of my customers use it rough since it is smooth enough finish off the saw. Width wise I cut to an even inch. A 1 x 8 off the mill is 8" wide and 4/4 thick(which is thicker than 1"). It's easier to mill this way and the customer doesn't feel like he's paying for a 1/2" he's not getting
On topic, I would check out Simpson Ties to see what they have in their line of products. They are online and if any source is going to have it readily available it would be them.
For thickness I mill the lumber 4/4, 5/4, 6/4 etc. The woodmizer scale figures the green thickness to allow for shrinkage so you can plane it to achieve dimensional stock thicknesses as opposed to the nominal, although most of my customers use it rough since it is smooth enough finish off the saw. Width wise I cut to an even inch. A 1 x 8 off the mill is 8" wide and 4/4 thick(which is thicker than 1"). It's easier to mill this way and the customer doesn't feel like he's paying for a 1/2" he's not getting
Finnbear
ArboristSite Operative
Balloon Framing is correct. My house is built that way. It was built prior to 1900.
Finnbear
Finnbear
Hey guys,
I saw lumber on the 4/4 scale for hardwood, and on 3/4 inch for construction lumber.
My old house was framed 100+ years ago. They even went so far as if there was good lumber, the roof was framed at 2' centers. In other spots, where the lumber had wane, or bark left on, it was placed at 16". Kinda just used what was available.
FIREBLOCKS: The old house had these in the walls, and I have another theory about their usage. -Maybe they worked to suppress fire, but I think the primary need existed around the following two points:
1. They kept the green framing lumber from twisting during drying in place.
2. The framing studs are vertical. Board and Batten siding needed to be nailed vertically as well, so these provided a horizontal nailer for the siding.
That's my two cents.
I saw lumber on the 4/4 scale for hardwood, and on 3/4 inch for construction lumber.
My old house was framed 100+ years ago. They even went so far as if there was good lumber, the roof was framed at 2' centers. In other spots, where the lumber had wane, or bark left on, it was placed at 16". Kinda just used what was available.
FIREBLOCKS: The old house had these in the walls, and I have another theory about their usage. -Maybe they worked to suppress fire, but I think the primary need existed around the following two points:
1. They kept the green framing lumber from twisting during drying in place.
2. The framing studs are vertical. Board and Batten siding needed to be nailed vertically as well, so these provided a horizontal nailer for the siding.
That's my two cents.
woodshop said:
LOL...Thats what I said Woodshop!!!!
woodshop
Addicted to ArboristSite
...sorry Casey, I didn't realize you had simply misspelled balloon in your post. I actually thought maybe you called it ballon framing. My mistake. Hey... I'm the worlds worst speller, if it weren't for spell checkers I'd be hurting.CaseyForrest said:
coveredinsap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Balloon framing is still commonly used in construction, for example when framing a gable end to take a scissor truss for a vaulted ceiling. You just have to know where to look for it.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hardly ever seen it it new construction here, in a gable end wall it is stronger to use studs that run the whole length, doesn't happen though, platform and then a mini wall on top. I have looked at old books with the balloon frame method, with steel hangers and fireblocking it seems superior. However the extra cost of long length wood means it won't happen again. Bbqman is right, trim them to fit, easy.coveredinsap said:
bookerdog
The New Champ
will do
bbqmannn your right and that is what I will do. I just thought it was funny me not even thinking about that when I cut them up to real 2x6bbqmannn said:
Keep an eye out for hanger brackets for engineered lumber, the stuff that looks like an I-beam. The stuff is wider than 11/2 on it's edge, just can't remember how much wider, maybe 13/4?.
aggiewoodbutchr
Addicted to ArboristSite
coveredinsap said:
??? I can honestly say I've never seen a gable framed in this way. It makes absolutely no sense and practically not possible. The additional bracing that would be required for this method to stabilize the load bearing walls during truss erection would easily offset any savings in material when compared to platform framing. I think you may be confused or not explaining yourself well.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Aggie, perhaps you are not understanding balloon framing. If the studs in a gable end wall run from the floor plate to the top plates, it will be much stronger than platform, where there will be a complete 8' or 9' wall and then a triangle wall nailed on top of it. The walls are generally sheathed before being stood, this takes care of shear forces. Platform framing is faster and uses much shorter lengths of wood. However, it seems to me that a balloon framed house, with proper firestop backing and adequate metal hangers would be structurally more sound. Framed on and off for years, read lots of books, new and old, am not an expert or engineer, just my opinion.aggiewoodbutchr said:
woodshop
Addicted to ArboristSite
From what I've read about this, I agree. Also, a balloon framed house is supposed to be able to "sway with less damage" in a hurricane or earthquake easier than a platform frame. Although my balloon framed 100 year old house uses wooden hangers, and not metal ones where the joists attach to the long studs running 25 ft from my cellar to my attic. One REAL nice advantage with balloon framing, is running cable TV coax, Cat5 computer cable and phone lines. When we first bought the house, and before we had insulation blown into the outside walls, I took advantage of those long open access ways from utilities in basement to any part of house. Sure made things easier.clearance said:
aggiewoodbutchr
Addicted to ArboristSite
clearance said:
I fully understand balloon framing, I just don't agree with sap's assertion that it's commonly used. Small structures, sheds, etc., maybe, but in my experience, it's very uncommon in residential and commercial wood framing. It's all about the bottom line and platform framing uses cheaper material and requires fewer man-hours. If you look into light guage steel framing you will find balloon is much more common but that's another subject.
The strength of the complete structure depends on many more factors other than balloon vs. platform. There are thousands of variables in a wood framed structure. I don't claim to be an expert either, but I've been in the business so to speak my entire life and I have a degree in construction science (engineering/ construction management). I'm not saying any of these statements are wrong, but I am saying they need to be more specific to be right.
