Ma and Pop shops

[sedanman]

Most shops have a backlog of work. We don't "need" to deal with the box store riff-raff. The guy that went to a box store to save a few bucks is likely to try and haggle on the repair bill. There's a dentist less than a thousand feet down the street from my shop. He and his wife both drive Audis, he has 2 beat to death box store snowblowers. I made the mistake last year of working on them , He has hounded me on every little thing that has gone wrong since. I got great pleasure in telling him "The equipment you use says a lot about you, these are cheep pieces of sh1t".


edited to fix bad spelling

 

[spike60]

Casey, I understand your point, but the truth is you really don't make money servicing that stuff, particularly if it's a warranty job. That's why the box stores don't want to mess with the service end of the business. You can be sure if there was money in it, they would be doing it.

I'll give a quick example: It takes me about 10 minutes to replace a fuel line that costs me $3. It takes longer than that to file a claim for the job. If the guy bought the saw from me, I'll just let it go. But if it's a lowes saw, I'd rather not be bothered with it.

It's also a matter of logistics, which I really didn't mention in the previous post. We really don't have either the time or space to pick up the slack from all of these places that sell without offering service. It just plain interferes with taking care of our own customers.

The truth is that we make our money on the sales end, particularly the large ticket items. Our shop exists to support that equipment and the customers who buy it, and that is where our focus is. Believe me, that focus is the key to our success.

We have no interest in being a general small engine shop and trying to accomodate everyone who walks in the door with all kinds of assorted stuff. I'm sure that some of the people we turn away think we are aloof or snobs, But "our" customers are very loyal, and we make sure that we keep them happy.

 

[Lakeside53]

I'm completely with Spike and Sedanman on this... We have it slightly easier as we only service Stihl, so it's easy to turn away the HD or Lowes customers. We make more money out of service than Sales, but still don't see the point is supporting the local box stores. Irrespective of the fact that we won't fix it unless it's Stihl, one of the largest box stores would love to have us take all their service work (they take the unit in, we get to fix it) but 1) they want us to discount our labor 40% so they can mark it up! sure..., and 2) it would be a complete mess as we wouldn't have the face-to face with the customer as to symptoms and expectations of cost.

Sometimes, if a guy comes in with an Echo, we refer them to another local store (the other store does the same to us on Stihl), but mostly we politely tell them to take to back to where they bought it. For the most part, they've already tried that, but it opens up the conversation.

In the bigger picture, the box stores have been good to us. Taking a percentage of the very low end sales hasn't hurt our bottom line (I can't fill up my small pickup with the "profit" we make on an MS170!), and we get the foot traffic from the customers wanting service. Some buy, and at least they know where and what to buy next time. Our sales are way up year over year for several years and it's not just us. I don't think a larger percentage of people are owning OPE, but it's coming from somewhere. I suspect HD/Lowes are having a far greater impact on Sears than anyones else (except maybe the Husky dealers that sold a lot of the lower priced units).


and.. We're a Pa shop - no Ma's but 2.5 Pa's.. in a 30x24 shack on that's been there for 80 years. No frills, and usually no heat. Stinks of old saws, old dogs, but...

 

[Just Mow]

Ma and Pop are always the first option.

 

[spacemule]

I get a kick out of how many dealers think their customers are helpless and will need outside service on their equipment. Come on guys, saws aren't rocket science. If you've done any mechanic work whatsoever, you'll be able to handle your own saw repairs, and you'll be quicker in the process than having to haul the thing in to a repair shop. Sure, for those who are not so inclined, dealers are good things. To the savvy person, though, money talks, bs walks, and a $3.00 set of screwdrivers fixes the saws.

 

[Lakeside53]

Only about 15.76% of the customers are truely useless.. 42.72% know someone that's less useless and most of the rest sometimes get luckyopcorn:

If they would read the manual... and run out the old gas, change the fuel filter once a year, but... most don't.

 

[oldsaw]

I try, but I end up spreading it around...between Bailey's, and my local Husky and Stihl dealers. Of my new bars, the 42 was a Bailey's deal, as was my 25", but my "good" 36 came from the local dealer. About half my chain comes from Bailey's and half from the local stores.

All my parts come from local dealers, which is my reason for posting. I do all my own mechanic work on my saws, but I need a local outlet for parts. Less of a deal now since I have "back-up" saws, but still a problem. My local Stihl dealer kind of gigs me on parts prices, often 20% or more over what others mention on this site...as much as 50% on small stuff. But, I still support them because I need them.

Mark

 

[spacemule]

Damn! I must be losing my touch. I thought for sure I'd get a rise out of folks on this thread! :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[sedanman]

I get a kick out of how many dealers think their customers are helpless and will need outside service on their equipment. Come on guys, saws aren't rocket science. If you've done any mechanic work whatsoever, you'll be able to handle your own saw repairs, and you'll be quicker in the process than having to haul the thing in to a repair shop. Sure, for those who are not so inclined, dealers are good things. To the savvy person, though, money talks, bs walks, and a $3.00 set of screwdrivers fixes the saws.

The mechanically inclined customer is a dying breed. As a whole society is much less capable of fending for themselves then their parents were. Popular Mechanics magazine used to tell the reader how do stuff, now they tell their readers how stuff works. How many homebuilt contraptions are there is your neighborhood? When I was a kid someones dad was always rigging up something. Anybody put together a "HeathKit" lately? Tecumseh used to offer a 3hp engine in peices in a box for a "Father son project" . Father and son could build the engine and a kart or minibike to put it on, not any more.
And then there's the time factor, some of my customers CAN do their own stuff but lead such busy lives they can't find the time. I personally prefer this customer as I don't have to spend so much time explaining the job.

 

[Lakeside53]

Damn! I must be losing my touch. I thought for sure I'd get a rise out of folks on this thread! :hmm3grin2orange:

we're intimidated by the new the new avatar :hmm3grin2orange: Found out where you got the lips for the last one from though

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=35655&page=308

 

[Marco]

How much time and effort can you really put into a $99 saw that is put together like a Chinese puzzle? Man I've thrown away perfectly good lightbulbs that have just needed the filament replaced.

 

[sedanman]

How much time and effort can you really put into a $99 saw that is put together like a Chinese puzzle? Man I've thrown away perfectly good lightbulbs that have just needed the filament replaced.

Well said!
I helped a family member get his handheld leafblower running, only needed a spark plug. On this particular Ryobi, the engine had to be removed from the housing to accomplish the feat. My cousin asked why they built it that way. I told him that they wanted him to throw it out and buy a new one rather than fix it. He bought a "real" one next time.
I have a display showing a bolt on starter vs. a built in starter on a string trimmer, you know the ones with the starter in between the engine and the string head. I tell customers that the built in starter type units will cost as much to replace the pull cord as they paid for the unit in the first place, when they see my displaly they understand.
I will sometimes work on stuff bought elsewhere, even the box stores BUT the guy that comes in and tells me I "HAVE TO" gets thrown out.

 

[Gologit]

Casey, I understand your point, but the truth is you really don't make money servicing that stuff, particularly if it's a warranty job. That's why the box stores don't want to mess with the service end of the business. You can be sure if there was money in it, they would be doing it.

I'll give a quick example: It takes me about 10 minutes to replace a fuel line that costs me $3. It takes longer than that to file a claim for the job. If the guy bought the saw from me, I'll just let it go. But if it's a lowes saw, I'd rather not be bothered with it.

It's also a matter of logistics, which I really didn't mention in the previous post. We really don't have either the time or space to pick up the slack from all of these places that sell without offering service. It just plain interferes with taking care of our own customers.

The truth is that we make our money on the sales end, particularly the large ticket items. Our shop exists to support that equipment and the customers who buy it, and that is where our focus is. Believe me, that focus is the key to our success.

We have no interest in being a general small engine shop and trying to accomodate everyone who walks in the door with all kinds of assorted stuff. I'm sure that some of the people we turn away think we are aloof or snobs, But "our" customers are very loyal, and we make sure that we keep them happy.

Thats the way my favorite saw shop does things and I can't find anything wrong with it. Plus the fact that if I have a "gotta-have-it-now-and-yesterday-would-be-even-better" kind of problem he always comes through. I don't spend a lot of money with him but if you look at the twenty plus years I've been going there it must add up. I'll keep on going to him until he's not around anymore and then hope whoever takes over from him (and he is grooming one very promising young guy right now) does as well. Blind loyalty? Not if you consider the fact that the guy and his shop actually make money for me by keeping me up and running. Big box stores wouldn't.

 

[CaseyForrest]

Casey, I understand your point, but the truth is you really don't make money servicing that stuff, particularly if it's a warranty job. That's why the box stores don't want to mess with the service end of the business. You can be sure if there was money in it, they would be doing it.

I'll give a quick example: It takes me about 10 minutes to replace a fuel line that costs me $3. It takes longer than that to file a claim for the job. If the guy bought the saw from me, I'll just let it go. But if it's a lowes saw, I'd rather not be bothered with it.

It's also a matter of logistics, which I really didn't mention in the previous post. We really don't have either the time or space to pick up the slack from all of these places that sell without offering service. It just plain interferes with taking care of our own customers.

The truth is that we make our money on the sales end, particularly the large ticket items. Our shop exists to support that equipment and the customers who buy it, and that is where our focus is. Believe me, that focus is the key to our success.

We have no interest in being a general small engine shop and trying to accomodate everyone who walks in the door with all kinds of assorted stuff. I'm sure that some of the people we turn away think we are aloof or snobs, But "our" customers are very loyal, and we make sure that we keep them happy.

I almost missed your reply!!

Thats cool, I understand where you are coming from.

 

[DOLMARatOs]

We are a small (5,200 sq ft.) shop that just happens to sell 2 brands of very high quality equipment Snapper and Dolmar. Both of these cannot be purchased from a mass retailer. Our problem is that most of our customers purchasing these units are either do-it-yourselfers or they bring them in once a year for routine service.

Our service dept. deals with over 90% equipment that is a brand we don't sell. I see very few Stihl saws and blowers but I tune-up a dozen Poulan saws a week that get used once or twice a year. These people spend $100.00-150.00 on the saw, use it twice and let it sit. Fast forward to next year....it won't start. They bring it to me, I politely take their information and $15.00 minimum service fee in advance...4 days later they give me another $45.00 or so and they get their cheap saw back...running just like it's supposed to with a sharp chain (and sometimes they pick up a spare or 2) and I know I'll see them next year. If they bought a more expensive saw...they'd have the same problems.

My point is: We are mom and pop style shop. Brightly lit, modern fixtures, clean and warm and dry. We sell only equipment that is not available through mass merchants...period. Our prices are the same as the online prices if you figure that there is no shipping involved. Flat chain prices too. 14" bar saw gets a $14.00 chain, 18" is $18.00 and so on. If you buy large quantities you can get a discount up to 50%. If I had to support my household on the 16-18% thats right......16-18% that I "make" on a new piece of equipment, I'd starve. Or i'd have to sell everyone in my town 2 new saws every other year. Just my $0.02.

 

[brian660]

I bought all my saws used so I can`t comment on that side but I usually buy all my parts from the local stihl dealer, he`ll even go out his way to get me husky parts when the need arises, the slight increase in price over internet puchases is more then offset by the customer service.

 

[Just Mow]

We are a small (5,200 sq ft.) shop that just happens to sell 2 brands of very high quality equipment Snapper and Dolmar. Both of these cannot be purchased from a mass retailer. Our problem is that most of our customers purchasing these units are either do-it-yourselfers or they bring them in once a year for routine service.

Our service dept. deals with over 90% equipment that is a brand we don't sell. I see very few Stihl saws and blowers but I tune-up a dozen Poulan saws a week that get used once or twice a year. These people spend $100.00-150.00 on the saw, use it twice and let it sit. Fast forward to next year....it won't start. They bring it to me, I politely take their information and $15.00 minimum service fee in advance...4 days later they give me another $45.00 or so and they get their cheap saw back...running just like it's supposed to with a sharp chain (and sometimes they pick up a spare or 2) and I know I'll see them next year. If they bought a more expensive saw...they'd have the same problems.

My point is: We are mom and pop style shop. Brightly lit, modern fixtures, clean and warm and dry. We sell only equipment that is not available through mass merchants...period. Our prices are the same as the online prices if you figure that there is no shipping involved. Flat chain prices too. 14" bar saw gets a $14.00 chain, 18" is $18.00 and so on. If you buy large quantities you can get a discount up to 50%. If I had to support my household on the 16-18% thats right......16-18% that I "make" on a new piece of equipment, I'd starve. Or i'd have to sell everyone in my town 2 new saws every other year. Just my $0.02.

I don't want to make a rude mark because I liked your post. I just want to say that you can buy the Dolmar saws at Home Depot when they are through with rental obligation and you can get the Snapper walk behind mowers at your local Lowe's store painted JD green. Just my .02.

 

[musch]

All the stores around me are Mom and Pop stores.
I try to keep the money in house so to speak.
What pisses me off is when it's "flat lander" season and the store owners raise the price.

You call 'em FIB's on that side of the lake too?


On the topic....
It is nice to support the local guy, and I try to as much as possible.
I always shake my head at all the people that line up at the new Wal Mart, and six months later there's no local clothes store, no local tire dealer, no local hardware store, no local sporting goods store... sad really, its not gonna come back either.

How is this about chainsaws, again?

 

[DOLMARatOs]

I have to laugh about the Snapper mowers painted green. It's bad enough that the poor JD dealer has to compete with the box stores. Luckily for me...right now at least...the John Deere IS painted green and doesn't say Snapper, the Makita saw is available used....and it says Makita not Dolmar. Also, it's still a nice big saw, and they aren't undercutting my prices. That is the worst thing in the world when the customer says: Why should I buy this from you, I can get it up the road cheaper. All I compete with is the Husky dealer 2 miles away, although, he's never heard of AS and his "technition" is looking forward to his 20th birthday....if a spark plug doesn't cure it....the customer must be at fault is there philosophy. Anyway. The thin line between the blue dolmars and green snappers is just enough so that most of the lay-persons won't be comparison shopping.

 

[Just Mow]

I have to laugh about the Snapper mowers painted green. It's bad enough that the poor JD dealer has to compete with the box stores. Luckily for me...right now at least...the John Deere IS painted green and doesn't say Snapper, the Makita saw is available used....and it says Makita not Dolmar. Also, it's still a nice big saw, and they aren't undercutting my prices. That is the worst thing in the world when the customer says: Why should I buy this from you, I can get it up the road cheaper. All I compete with is the Husky dealer 2 miles away, although, he's never heard of AS and his "technition" is looking forward to his 20th birthday....if a spark plug doesn't cure it....the customer must be at fault is there philosophy. Anyway. The thin line between the blue dolmars and green snappers is just enough so that most of the lay-persons won't be comparison shopping.

Yeah I laugh when the Echo dealer says these are our commercial saws 330,360,and others and then you walk into the Home Depot and they are sitting there right next to the Poulan saws and other crrap they sell. Talk about protecting your dealer who you want to do all of the repair work for these people.