Ma and Pop shops

[sedanman]

It amazes me that people will dicker on the price of a saw and then pay full retial for funiture for their homes. The mark-up on furniture can be as high as 140 percent. Take the dealers cost on a couch multiply by 2.4 and that's what you pay........................with a smile. I have customers ask me for a discount. very few get one. I tell them this, "Every time you pick that saw/trimmer/blower/etc. up you will make money, I have only one chance to make money on that unit" A lot of them see the wisdom in this, the ones that don't, well let em walk I won't die if I lose a few sales. Then there's the milk arguement, I get guys who say "You know, I spend a lot of money here you should cut me a break" I ask them if they buy milk every week, when they say yes I ask if the grocer ever gives them a discount on milk because be they are such frequent and loyal customers. Do you haggle at the price of a movie ticket? or a prepared meal? or a gallon of gas? I HATE cheap people.

 

[THALL10326]

Sounds like socialism to me--you know, take my hard earned money away from me and use it as ma and pa shop welfare. I'm much more of a capitalist guy. :rockn:

Space fear not, ma and pa aren't twisting your arm to come shop with them. I don't see ma and pa on TV all the time advertising for customers like you know who. HD should take some of that advertising money and hire some decent help. I wish too, since you speak of that hard earned money, the boys where you work would get up off their lazy azz and give alittle service for it, whats hard about it, putting on the apron. Home Depot is almost self serve around here, pay for it and load your own. I bought a big tool box and cabinet from HD awhile back. I had to get another customer to help me load it on the truck while a apron flasher sat on a fork lift beside my truck and watched us. He never lifted a finger, just sat there and watched. That's HD service at its best, no wonder they can affored to charge less. Ma and pa would have helped so they should charge more since they do more and earn it.

 

[spike60]

Sorry Chucker, but cash isn't always king, and it isn't always about the money.

But if the dealer you went to were indeed "sarcastic jerks", then they didn't even deserve the cash lying on the floor of your truck.

This thread is interesting, and it pretty much shows that for all of us, our opinions are shaped by our experiences. But you need to be careful not to let one negative experience warp or pre-determine your opinion in a future situation. Generalizing about "all" dealers, or "all" saws or trucks from a particular company, based on one bad experience, is a sign of ignorance. If dealers started thinking in terms of "all" customers based on the few idiots that we see, then none of us would want to open our stores in the morning.

There is much discussion here about "good" or "bad" dealers, and there are plenty of both. But let's not forget that there are "good" and "bad" customers as well. I've seen quite a few customers who are "sarcastic jerks". Very often, that sarcasm is from someone who is compelled to overplay the haggling act to the point that is insulting. Our saw prices are already very low, yet even if we had a 372 priced at $75, there are those who would ask us "can you do any better?" Asking once is OK, but to be arogant and press the issue after I say no, definately falls into the "sarcastic jerk" category, doesn't it?

Bear in mind that dealers all know what it's like to be a customer, but not very many customers know what it's like to be a dealer. I'm sure that we are what nearly all of you guys would like to see in a dealer, and most AS members are just the type of customers we enjoy dealing with.

Todays sarcastic jerk story: Guy I don't know comes in and sets a Husky 350 on the counter, (with the little blue "Lowes" tag on it). I'm at my desk and he says "doin paperwork , eh?" I said that I was actually sending out dinner invitations. (Every year we throw a big party for all of our commercial customers at one of the local sports bars. It's kind of a tradition that they all look forward to, and it's a great time.) He says the saw dies when you hit the trigger, and he can't adjust it out. I tell him it's maybe the pulse line or the fuel line, but I can't mess with it right then. So, he says, sarcasticly, "yeah, you gotta get those dinner invitations out" I said, "yeah, that's right, because these people have spent MILLIONS of dollars with me instead of at Lowes!" So, do you suppose that in his mind, I'm a "sarcastic jerk"?

 

[THALL10326]

Spike you can always do this

We got a answer for those that want a deal. We always say ya know we put that price tag on that saw for a reason, see if ya can guess why,LOLOL

You'd be surprised how many customers bust out laffing and go okokokok, I get the point..

 

[spike60]

We got a answer for those that want a deal. We always say ya know we put that price tag on that saw for a reason, see if ya can guess why,LOLOL

You'd be surprised how many customers bust out laffing and go okokokok, I get the point..

I'll give that a try tomorrow!

 

[THALL10326]

I'll give that a try tomorrow!

Trust me most take it well and laff. Most customers just have to try the seller to see how far they can go. That line tends to blow their attempt and most times they laff and go okkkkk..

 

[Chucker45]

It amazes me that people will dicker on the price of a saw and then pay full retial for funiture for their homes. The mark-up on furniture can be as high as 140 percent. Take the dealers cost on a couch multiply by 2.4 and that's what you pay........................with a smile. I have customers ask me for a discount. very few get one. I tell them this, "Every time you pick that saw/trimmer/blower/etc. up you will make money, I have only one chance to make money on that unit" A lot of them see the wisdom in this, the ones that don't, well let em walk I won't die if I lose a few sales. Then there's the milk arguement, I get guys who say "You know, I spend a lot of money here you should cut me a break" I ask them if they buy milk every week, when they say yes I ask if the grocer ever gives them a discount on milk because be they are such frequent and loyal customers. Do you haggle at the price of a movie ticket? or a prepared meal? or a gallon of gas? I HATE cheap people.

Hey, if you enjoy paying MSRP on everything you buy then more power to you.

I think I'll just drop the topic, I don't see it going anywhere productive

 

[THALL10326]

Can always do this

We had a guy come in Saturday wanting a deal on a big blower. Wanted to know what "his" price would be. I was like hmmmmmmmmm ok. The blower sold for 469.95. I told him ok, your price is 499.95. He goes whattttttttttt. I said what, you asked what "your" price would be. He cracks up and goes you think your smart dont you. I said no, you thought you was smart asking what "your" price would be. He shakes his head and chuckles and 15 minutes later he's out 469.95 and going home with a new blower. Humor is one of the best ways to make a sale with the discount shopper....

 

[spike60]

How about: "If I pay cash, can we skip the tax?"

To which I answer: "I'd rather you paid the tax, than me pay the fine."

They always laugh at that one and drop the subject.

Ever have a guy, while he is trying to work you on a price, reach in his pocket and pull out a wad of cash, supposedly just to check it, and then put it back in his pocket? The idea is that you are supposed to get all worked up at the site of some hundred dollar bills. That absolutely cracks me up.

 

[twoodward15]

Well, I guess I'm a customer people hate. I'm in the military. Anytime I make a high dollar purchase I ask if the store has a military discount. I don't push it. I ask once and if the answer is no, I still buy the item I need, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Remember, just like I tell my bosses that don't like to give bad answers...... "NO, is a perfectly acceptable answer"! You guys have to eat too!

 

[bump_r]

I know it's a Dilbert-esque corporate cube-farm expression, but what I think the real issue at hand is the "value-added" of a stereotypical ma and pa shop versus the lack thereof of a sterotypical mass-merchandiser.

As long as there is that special little "extra" (be it saw set-up, full-line on display, availability of service and parts down the road, or just a good rapport), and its worth the extra money up front, then ma and pa will get the business. If the price is slower and the "extras' not needed, box-store gets the sale. There's no right or wrong, no magical formula - each case is unique.

I'd no sooner turn my back on a garage-sale saw than I would one from Lowes - IF the situation was right. I PREFER to deal with my ma and pa shop for my TYPICAL purchases, but I'll certainly not walk blindly past deals here and there.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I ask them if they buy milk every week, when they say yes I ask if the grocer ever gives them a discount on milk because be they are such frequent and loyal customers.

Actually, they do. MOST grocery stores sell milk at cost or a slight loss. It's a loss leader, designed to get people into the stores.

Small convenience stores or Momn Pops are the exception, of course.



Just yanking your chain, sedanman. Good argument, but bad example.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Ever have a guy, while he is trying to work you on a price, reach in his pocket and pull out a wad of cash, supposedly just to check it, and then put it back in his pocket? The idea is that you are supposed to get all worked up at the site of some hundred dollar bills. That absolutely cracks me up.

That's recommended by many 'experts' in negotiating. It's supposed to work very well on car dealers.


I think the dealer has to be pretty stupid to fall for it.

Actually, what works better with car dealers is to let them know up front that you will be financing it WITH THEM. They charge an exorbitant interest rate, sell the paper and make money on it, so they are more inclined to deal on price.

Once you have the deal done, and before your first payment is due, you pay it off with cash or with that loan you got pre-approved with your credit union.

The dealer is happy, you are happy, and the loan company is left out in the cold! :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[spike60]

Well, I just had a guy come in with a 257 that he was having trouble keeping the chain on. It's an older saw, that we didn't sell, but we have worked on it before and sold him some chains.

I asked if he had a minute, and we took the side cover off and his problem was that he was missing the rim sprocket when putting the chain on. Problem solved, no charge. He was happy and insisted on giving me $5 for the lunch kitty.

That's how customers and dealers build long term relationships. It doesn't happen in the box stores and it doesn't happen on the web.

 

[THALL10326]

Well, I just had a guy come in with a 257 that he was having trouble keeping the chain on. It's an older saw, that we didn't sell, but we have worked on it before and sold him some chains.

I asked if he had a minute, and we took the side cover off and his problem was that he was missing the rim sprocket when putting the chain on. Problem solved, no charge. He was happy and insisted on giving me $5 for the lunch kitty.

That's how customers and dealers build long term relationships. It doesn't happen in the box stores and it doesn't happen on the web.

Good job Spike. We just had a ma and pa verses HD this morning. Man comes in carring a Echo with a broken sprocket and a lil Mac with the chain adjuster snapped off. He wants me to fix both and I had to break the news to him that we don't carry parts for either saw, talk about a sad face. He goes does anyone in town work on these brands, I say not that I know of. He leaves, comes back 30 minutes and guess what. He's now the proud owner of not one but two new Stihls. Just goes to prove the old saying, you can save a penny at first and pay a helluva lot later. Ma and pa thank HD once again for no service, no parts. The customer said he learned his lesson, no more HD saws. Best part was he never asked for one cent off and was smiling going out the door. People should know better than to fool with ma and pa, LOL

 

[belgian]

This is a real good thread. Having been a salesman all my professional career, I recognize many of the customer behavior as some of you described so well. Most of my customers are large organisations with professionally trained purchasers, which are no fun at all to deal with. I will spare you their tactics, but the most important fact in making a good deal between supplier and customer is that both should have a good feeling about the deal made (win-win). some personal tips :

1. good equipment or good service has its price. you cannot have the best product at the cheapest price. Make it clear to Ma and Dad. I would toss in a chain or accessories for a guy that absolutely needs a discount (like me), but do not offer significant discounts on the product itself. It's contra-productive.

2. Try to understand your customers need (listening is more important than talking). No need to offer a pro saw if the customer compares it to box store products.

3. every customer is different and deserves a personal approach. Some customers are very ennoying and time consuming, but that's fact of life. One has to accept it, or choose another career.

4. For similar commercial products in a competitive environment, the salesman makes the decisive difference.
You have to trust the guy who sells something to you. For me that means product knowledge, friendly attitude, and knowing that I will get personal attention if something goes wrong after the sale. Humor also is indeed a powerful tool, as it reflects if the salesman like you and his job.

Name it a professional distorture, but I judge the salesman/shopowner behavior the minute I walk in a store. That's why I will never buy a professional tool in a box store, unless they would give it for free of course.

ahhhh, I can keep on telling for hours....

 

[NYH1]

One thing I should have mentioned in my first post is that my dealer WILL work on anyone's saws (or other power equipment), be it service or warranty work. If you buy a 455 Rancher at the Home Depot or Sears he'll work on it. He's in the service business and will service just about anything. My point was that he will take care of the guys/gals that bought their equipment from him in the first place before he works on someone's equipment that was bought elsewhere. AND THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!

 

[JUDGE1162]

We got a answer for those that want a deal. We always say ya know we put that price tag on that saw for a reason, see if ya can guess why,LOLOL

You'd be surprised how many customers bust out laffing and go okokokok, I get the point..

The problem is most dealers do adjust prices, so if it is a practice in the bussiness then why would you get upset when someone asks. Like it or not a local dealer is a place where people expect the price to be flexible. Most people do not expect the prices to change at the local supermarket, your right but now make that the local farmers market and people do expect prices to change.

There are just places that the price tag is just a place to start, would you walk into a car dealer and pay the "price tag on the car or truck" NO, I am sure none of you just walk in and say yes I think $30,000 is a good price where do I sign, no you go what can you do how about $28K the dealer say how about $29K and along the way you come to a deal. Like it or not most people expect the same thing in a power equipment dealership. And yes the same people would never think of walking into Lowes or HD and asking for a lower price, but a few do and at times it works. I saw a guy get 20% off a grill just by asking the manager if they would knock a few bucks off to get rid of the grill before the winter. So even in the big box stores prices can be flexible.

 

[Lakeside53]

That's easy when the grill has a 100% markup to start with, and Car/truck MSRP are fictional, but saws? Hmmm let me knock 20% off... after freight and co-op advertising, I just lost money. No lunch today... and the lights are being shut off.

 

[JUDGE1162]

Good job Spike. We just had a ma and pa verses HD this morning. Man comes in carring a Echo with a broken sprocket and a lil Mac with the chain adjuster snapped off. He wants me to fix both and I had to break the news to him that we don't carry parts for either saw, talk about a sad face. He goes does anyone in town work on these brands, I say not that I know of. He leaves, comes back 30 minutes and guess what. He's now the proud owner of not one but two new Stihls. Just goes to prove the old saying, you can save a penny at first and pay a helluva lot later. Ma and pa thank HD once again for no service, no parts. The customer said he learned his lesson, no more HD saws. Best part was he never asked for one cent off and was smiling going out the door. People should know better than to fool with ma and pa, LOL

Sorry I really don't mean to pick on you, I get your point about the box store sells product that they don't service but part of that issue is the consumers fault too. When you buy anything be it a saw, a truck, a TV, anything you need to concider what will hapen if I need to fix it and make sure you have a place near by that will fix it.

If he would have walked in with a stihl instead of an Echo saw I am sure you could have fixed it yourself or if he walked in with a Husky you could have pointed him to the nearest husky dealer or maybe even fixed the problem.

Just a question if you are a saw shop that does repairs why couldn't you order the parts and fix his saw, instead of turning around and saying you screwed no one has parts for those saws. I would hope a good saw shop would try to HELP me and fix my saws instead of trying to sell me a new saw. I know my local Hisky dealer has worked on my eager beaver saw and my dads stihl saw, yes he did not have parts in stock but he ordered them and fixed the saws.

The whole he did not ask for a cent off, that was his fault hell if I was buying two saws from you I would expect some discount, even if it was just a token discount of a few%. Even on some small stihl saws I am sure you made a few bucks on the sale, I agree if the customer does not ask you do not offer. But that is a case where I do not think asking for a discount is unreasonable.


spike60, nice job helping the guy out with his simply to fix problem that is how you earn a customer, I am sure he will do more bussiness with you. That is what a ma & Pa shop offer that you do not get at a box store, now to get back to the orginal question of this thread what is that worth? Are you willing to pay 5% more at the local Ma and Pa VS the box store for that type of service, how about 10% more what is that extra "stuff" (know how, service, parts, helpful, etc) worth?

BlueRidgeMark great idea with the car dealer, but now walk in with a the full price of the car in cash and see how low you can really get a car for. I got my truck for $8k less than sticker, first the dealer took off $2K, then he talked to his boss and took off $4K said that is the best he could do, it was a steal at that price. I stopped by his bosses office on my way out the door said I have $23K in my pocket in cash and I will buy the truck today for that amount, he said we had a deal.