making ourselves obsolete

[clearance]

do you just do removals?

treevet, I have heard this comment before, as in "removal artists", used in a condecending manner. I don't like it.

Now, this guy pays us compliments, and you slag him. But his posting proves your point totally.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I learned how to climb almost exclusively off this site. The only other info I had was the Tree Climbers Companion. I have never worked for another tree service. I have only seen other people climb a few times in person. I had limited saw experience from working at a country club before I started on my own. In 3 years I went from not knowing a thing about trees to actually being a skilled and safe climber. My first climb wasn't the safest thing I have ever done. But I quickly picked up on some of the things you guys preach here like safety and quality of work. I gradually became more comfortable in the tree and have become pretty good on spikes and without. I have done some pretty technical rigging but I usually take smaller pieces then I have too. I would probably be more comfortable rigging larger pieces if i was working on the ground for a few years. Its weird, I have taught a couple of people how to use my port-a-wrap, but I have never even used it myself haha. So in short this site can train your competition. In a few years I went from nothing to having my own saws, climbing and rigging gear, f350, dump trailer, and a dingo with branch manager. I'm also Insured as of 02/01/10 yay!!! am I not a hack anymore?? I have my first crane removal scheduled for this Saturday. I'm ####ting my pants but nobody knows that. Its going to be crazy fun... and whats life without a challenge??

You sound very young and potentially dangerous if you pursue you eager endevors.
Did you really learn it all from here? Do your groundies know?
Be safe
Jeff
Jeff

 

[jefflovstrom]

BTW, some guy's are natural's at it. It just comes to them like the cabinet maker man who quit and went to climbing and is happy and well off.
Jeff

 

[tree md]

I learned how to climb almost exclusively off this site. The only other info I had was the Tree Climbers Companion. I have never worked for another tree service. I have only seen other people climb a few times in person. I had limited saw experience from working at a country club before I started on my own. In 3 years I went from not knowing a thing about trees to actually being a skilled and safe climber. My first climb wasn't the safest thing I have ever done. But I quickly picked up on some of the things you guys preach here like safety and quality of work. I gradually became more comfortable in the tree and have become pretty good on spikes and without. I have done some pretty technical rigging but I usually take smaller pieces then I have too. I would probably be more comfortable rigging larger pieces if i was working on the ground for a few years. Its weird, I have taught a couple of people how to use my port-a-wrap, but I have never even used it myself haha. So in short this site can train your competition. In a few years I went from nothing to having my own saws, climbing and rigging gear, f350, dump trailer, and a dingo with branch manager. I'm also Insured as of 02/01/10 yay!!! am I not a hack anymore?? I have my first crane removal scheduled for this Saturday. I'm ####ting my pants but nobody knows that. Its going to be crazy fun... and whats life without a challenge??

If this is your first crane removal you might want to let them know. They want your business and don't want you to tear anything up. They would probably send out a site manager to work with you and the operator. Someone who knows how to do trees with a crane. A good one can tell you every cut to make for the most efficient, and safe removal.

Good luck!

 

[jefflovstrom]

Did you you a job walk with with the operator, know what size you need?
Jeff:monkey:

 

[Juicemang]

I didn't have insurance the first year because It was all side work/under the table. The second year caught me off guard with how much work I got. Had I known what I was getting into last year I would have got the insurance ball rolling sooner. I still hold a part time job outside of tree work. I do make an effort to do more then elevate and never top, which is what most companies do around here. Elevate if necessary, remove deadwood, branches with defects, sprouts, little crown thinning would be a usual trim for me. I wouldn't consider myself a removal artist. I'm realistic ive only been doing this a few years. If I thought I was hot #### I would be posting videos. I just thought I should chime in since you were wondering if this site has taught anyone to climb.

As for the crane job. The owner of the crane company will be operating. He has experience with tree removals. He knows I haven't worked with a crane before and is going to work with me. When I said I was ####ting my pants Its just nerves... theres always nerves before you do something new.

Yes I learned everything from here. I only work with 2 people on the ground, my brother and best friend both of which I trained. Its pretty clear with the information on this site what is safe and whats not. I have seen a couple outfits work and I would question there safety. Who is a better teacher some alcoholic bum?? Or watching all of regs, ekka, and all the other video posters. I would rather learn from the best even if its not in person.

 

[treevet]

treevet, I have heard this comment before, as in "removal artists", used in a condecending manner. I don't like it.

Now, this guy pays us compliments, and you slag him. But his posting proves your point totally.

You are just taking it that way Clearance.

My original premise included our competition learning tree care as well from the forum and since he did not mention that or mention doing anything but removals, I wanted to know if this was the case. Plenty to be learned as far as tree care on the forum.

This actually may be one of the best forms of learning even for the more advanced arborist. You read and develop theory and you post and you can get challenged immediately if that theory is iffy. It makes you research to come up with the goods to prove your point.

 

[treeslayer]

The more I know, the more I can learn.

This site NEVER stops educating me, I am way more informed about proper tree care and the more time I spend here, the more I learn.

 

[teamtree]

At the end of the day, you can look at pics and videos all you want, but it still takes some steady nerves, clear thinking and some experience to do what we do.

I have tried to get guys to do what I do in the bucket and they can't do it. Of if they do, they are slow or dangerous if not both.

 

[EdenT]

Cool sentiment

The more I know, the more I can learn.

This site NEVER stops educating me, I am way more informed about proper tree care and the more time I spend here, the more I learn.

Someone much brighter than me once said -

In order to learn you must first recognize and acknowledge your ignorance.

Sometimes hard to do on a public forum where ego's and reputations are on the line!!!

 

[outofmytree]

I am typing a little slower at the moment as my right hand is still sore from a wee tap I took on Friday. Took the top off a 27 metre Norfolk Island Pine at 20 metres and put it into a DZ 6 metres long. When we popped the top my off sider let it run exactly as instructed but the "wee bump" made my hand slip from the polestrap and under the running rigging. There will always be a place in this profession for those with the gonads to do the work that leaves others with suspicious stains in their longjohns. Add a little education and the appropriate local licenses to the mix and you have a man (or woman!) who will always be employed.

Actually this thread would be moot if the industry was more regulated. OMG OMG OMG. Did I just say the "r" word?

 

[jefflovstrom]

I am typing a little slower at the moment as my right hand is still sore from a wee tap I took on Friday. Took the top off a 27 metre Norfolk Island Pine at 20 metres and put it into a DZ 6 metres long. When we popped the top my off sider let it run exactly as instructed but the "wee bump" made my hand slip from the polestrap and under the running rigging. There will always be a place in this profession for those with the gonads to do the work that leaves others with suspicious stains in their longjohns. Add a little education and the appropriate local licenses to the mix and you have a man (or woman!) who will always be employed.

Actually this thread would be moot if the industry was more regulated. OMG OMG OMG. Did I just say the "r" word?

I wondered why you aint been around. Must of been quite a rush!. Glad your OK.
Jeff
ps. Metres to feet makes me think too hard-

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

What I am saying is it is actually safer and easier to actually DO it (not just read about it) with the gear, equipment, and all the instruction you can get from people like you and me on forums so......

I think that it is easier to train, some of the work is getting easier then it was 15-20 years ago, but the pansies still winnow out in the brush dragging.

One of the reasons there are so many new people starting up is that it is so much easier to get equipment these days. The used market is very reasonable, 10k for a beat up, but servicable dump/chipper combo.

I know of a "nice" one-ton and chuck-n-duck going for ~7k. Just needs a little work, sez my very honest buddy...

Dorshak's been saying they want to down-size for over a year now....

 

[outofmytree]

I wondered why you aint been around. Must of been quite a rush!. Glad your OK.
Jeff
ps. Metres to feet makes me think too hard-

Been flat out working to tell the truth. Scarcely time to scratch my proverbial...

3 1/3 feet to the metre so I was hooked in at 66 feet with 22 feet of top above me and only 19 feet of drop zone to plant it in. I forgot to mention the solar panels, grass trees, wishing well, 40 year old tile roof, asbestos shed roof and the fact that norfolks have fruit like pines which, when green, weigh about 1 1/2 kgs (3 1/2 lbs). If you stop the top hard the fruit keeps going and will punch through roof tiles easy as so its let er run and slow down close to the ground.

Plenty of good climbers here would eat that job up but not the sort of thing a wannabe would do twice assuming he/she lived through the first time.

And yes it was a fun ride.

 

[derwoodii]

Ahh Norfolk's you forgot to mention the sticky gooey sap that fouls your gear and hands for the whole job.
Just sittin picking the sap from a Moreton Fig outofmy hair as trimming one up early today, for I hate say "a new red light camera" the tree hinder it's view. It took some souls searching to do the job.
Hope your hand soon gets well.

 

[EdenT]

Ahh Norfolk's you forgot to mention the sticky gooey sap that fouls your gear and hands for the whole job.
Just sittin picking the sap from a Moreton Fig outofmy hair as trimming one up early today, for I hate say "a new red light camera" the tree hinder it's view. It took some souls searching to do the job.
Hope your hand soon gets well.

Ha, at last, a justification for lopping a tree. If you had done it correctly you could have profuse epicormic growth filling the viewfinder of that camera within a couple of months.

Nah, on second thoughts speeding motorists already cause too much damage to tree's. Why should the tree suffer just because someone can't spare the time to stop for a red light!

 

[treevet]

Here is another reason our job has become easier and safer. Also likely why more enter this safer more evolved field. The meeting of the best climbers with manufacturers of the best equipment available and the results have benefited all of us.

http://itcc.isa-arbor.com/History/history.aspx

 

[outofmytree]

Easier and safer is a good thing TV. As you know all we need to do as professionals (in any field) is continue to self educate and we will be ahead of 90% of the competition.

I had a good chat with the head of Arb studies in WA. There are less than 10 cert III graduates per year here and yet there are 400 registered companies (and at least that many fly-by-night outfits) which is 2.5% of employees that have decent training. Providing that a business markets itself correctly this is an edge worth tens of thousands of dollars.

Or we could push to regulate both business owners and tradespeople in order to raise work standards all over..... Eeeeeeek! Did I just say the "r" word!?!?!?! :jawdrop:

 

[underwor]

Don't get around too often any more, but this thread is really interesting. I started out in "67" (1967 that is) and like tree vet have seen a lot of change. I have learned a lot from this and other sites over the years. The day I quit learning and it isn't fun I will probably quit. I particularly liked Tree Squirrels comment about teaching our customers. We do need to make our service different and hopefully more desirable than our competition. As we have all seen in the TV ads, a perception of improved quality does command a higher price. Look at the shoes that Michael Jordan endorsed as opposed to those made in the same sweat shops, but sold at Target. Often times the quality is perceived, rather than actual. Notice how often a chainsaw is worth more if there is customer support for repair and advice? Are you planning on buying a lemon? Most likely, you just want that insurance that it is there if you need it. If your customer understands how your knowledge of Tree, shrubs, turf, equipment, and techniques, all fit into them having a healthy landscape, you are definitely worth more than the hack that knows how to start the saw and has a big truck.

Wulkowicz, who many of you know and have probably been frustrated by like me, once said that "If your only tool is a saw, your only result is a log."

If anyone has read this site for many years and not learned to be a better treeman at the least, then they weren't trying too hard.

Bob

 

[treevet]

Don't get around too often any more, but this thread is really interesting. I started out in "67" (1967 that is) and like tree vet have seen a lot of change. I have learned a lot from this and other sites over the years. The day I quit learning and it isn't fun I will probably quit. I particularly liked Tree Squirrels comment about teaching our customers. We do need to make our service different and hopefully more desirable than our competition. As we have all seen in the TV ads, a perception of improved quality does command a higher price. Look at the shoes that Michael Jordan endorsed as opposed to those made in the same sweat shops, but sold at Target. Often times the quality is perceived, rather than actual. Notice how often a chainsaw is worth more if there is customer support for repair and advice? Are you planning on buying a lemon? Most likely, you just want that insurance that it is there if you need it. If your customer understands how your knowledge of Tree, shrubs, turf, equipment, and techniques, all fit into them having a healthy landscape, you are definitely worth more than the hack that knows how to start the saw and has a big truck.

Wulkowicz, who many of you know and have probably been frustrated by like me, once said that "If your only tool is a saw, your only result is a log."

If anyone has read this site for many years and not learned to be a better treeman at the least, then they weren't trying too hard.

Bob

Haven't seen you for a while and good to see you Bob. Don't be a stranger