May I please lean upon and learn from, you experienced pros?

[Gologit]

Cleanup! Aisle 3!

Gary

 

[possumtrapper]

Look out for those leaning smooth bark red gums Kiwibro. Seen even 6 foot thru buggers split up the back/barber chair when cut conventionally. Gotta bore 'em.

 

[KiwiBro]

Look out for those leaning smooth bark red gums Kiwibro. Seen even 6 foot thru buggers split up the back/barber chair when cut conventionally. Gotta bore 'em.

Thanks. They do strike me as barber chair prospects. They seem like a tight/brittle fibre, for lack of a better description.

I was practising on smaller Totora and Kahikatea, in today's near gale force winds. The Kike's are very tall for their DBH and had no lower branches, just a big green sail at the end of their long, skinny levers. Ironically, I experienced my first ever barber chair today on what I thought was a pretty decent bore+strap combo. I'd left too much holding wood in the hinge and when I released the strap and the sail headed down wind the trunk let out a 'ping' followed by a cracking rip and a wonderful lesson presented itself. Glad I learned that one on a small DBH tree and not on a big saw log, and while safely sheltering behind another tree.

I had the camera in the car so shot some video of the stump and tree for future reference before tidying it up.

I found it much more difficult to massage a tree off it's natural lay line when using the bore + strap. With the strap doing the holding (and I was very surprised by how little strap was needed), there isn't the same opportunity for me to feel how the tree is responding to the back-cut, and I can't use wedges to help a tree stand over a hinge that's not pointing directly down the natural lay line. It seems like the moment the strap is released, the tree responds to that sudden release by falling too far over the hinge before the hinge can have enough influence over the tree's direction. I hope I am making myself clear.

How do you guys deal with leaners that need to fall just off (maybe 30 degrees max) one side from their natural lay? Do you still rely on a hinge, perhaps angled (so more holding wood on one side) as much as you dare? Do you direct the face cut off to the the side of the natural lay and just expect whatever hinge you leave will coax the leaner off it's line when the strap/s is/are released? Do you have a two straps with thickness's such that when you release one, the tree will start to go and then the holding forces on the strap will help pull the tree over the hinge and off the natural lay a little before that strap either rips out by itself or is cut?

Or have I missed something?

 

[derwoodii]

this ones a salient lesson

[video=youtube;bRwkL7Nd9ys]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRwkL7Nd9ys[/video]

avoid being in harms way

 

[hammerlogging]

In the case of falling a tree leaning 30 degrees off the intended lay, with the bore cut, how you release the strap can help. Once all you have left is the strap, instead of just cutting the strap from the back, try inserting the tip on the compression side and cutting toward the tension side, that way the last of the strap will pop but help pull the stem toward the intended lay, aiding the hingewood, hleping it pull around. A little more hinge wood on the tension side can help too, unless its to the point of causing a minor fracture at the hinge, which in some cases can propogate all the way through the log.

A little while back I was trying to swing a heavy leaning poplar 90 degrees, i though I had it fine and dandy and was escaping my 45 and the barberchair from it twisting/breaking/busting up the hinge, it caught my shoulder as it busted and fell 45 degrees from the intended lay, that was a bit unnerving and a good reminder that there are limits.

I have been a very boring cutter lately. After months of heavy to poplar jobs with lots of humbolts and backcuts, I've been forced to open up my faces a bit and bore lots. Just the nature of the timber, lots of heavy leaning oak.

 

[tramp bushler]

There are times when unfortunatly you are going to have to beat wedges .

Oh and Kiwi . If you are going to live long enough to get good .you have to know when you are blown out . Falling slick timber in gale force wind is a real easy way to die .
Remember , you have to get good before you can get fast .

I use kerf and step dutchmen quite a bit . And siswheel boring cuts . When you use siswheel bore cuts yYOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET AWAY FROM THE STUMP !! Alot of times they will pull part of the stump out of the ground . Roots and all . Mostly on the holding wood side .

 

[tramp bushler]

In timber that is brittle the siswheel works well . It allows the holding wood to flex and move forward while still hanging onto the tree and thhereby pulling it into the face and your intended lay .

I m e . Trees don't chair as much when the holding wood is only from the heart out to the holdinng wood side . .

 

[tramp bushler]

this ones a salient lesson

[video=youtube;bRwkL7Nd9ys]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRwkL7Nd9ys[/video]

avoid being in harms way

Derwoodi . Thanks for posting this .

This one is a toughy . Tho the vid shows the faller running the saw left handed I'm not sure he was . .
Having to buck blowdown on rock bluffs is common . Knowing when to run the saw left handed takes practice . Knowing when to say I ain't touching that experience and clear thinking ..

 

[KiwiBro]

You'll need something soothing. I'm not talking about a quarter of brown. The most important tool is, as I see it, a fool proof insurance. Also check the clausal which can only be deciphered with an electronic microscope and a virus filter. At least it works with me. As long as people are safe, everything that might get busted is just heaps of lumber, glass, metal and stone to me. Helps me to keep the focus on the task, not on the chips.

Sam

That makes plenty of sense, thank you. Within the constraints of inexperience, there's still plenty I can asses and do before deciding not just how to drop any tree but firstly whether I should. I don't have insurance as I'm not qualified and heck, if I was an insurance company I'd not insure me. There isn't $100k's of gear on my jobs. If I put it all together it might scrape $50k. I'm just trying to make the most of these farm blocks to 'learn on the job' and have to apply far more time to identifying and assessing the hazards than an experienced and trained person would and as long as I can stay safe, I'm happy to spend a few hours cleaning up the mess if there are some valuable lessons to be learned from something that doesn't work out.

Proper training and gaining qualifications is on my list and quite high up it, but for now I'm experimenting and practising and basically trying to soak up as much info as I can.

Biggest issue yesterday was learning how different woods react to similar stresses and felling cuts, in high winds. It's a wonderful day when I make it out alive, don't wreck anything, and have learned many lessons. I love the element of control over timing the bore and strap offer. Just one little cut to release the tree and it drops. I was timing such releases yesterday either in between wind gusts or in the middle of them to learn the differences.

Worst drop yesterday (apart from the barber chair Kahikatea) was a maybe 3' tree leaning slightly over a three-wire electric fence, but not so much that I thought I couldn't wedge it over the hinge and down wind so it avoided the fence, probably 45 degrees from it's natural lay. Just to be safe I tripped the power to the fence (no stock in those paddocks) and dropped the wires. A conventional cut with about a 2+' long hinge and I was resigned to beating the snot out my favourite wedges to get her started if the wind didn't help enough. Used a 25" bar, planned on setting the hinge up from both sides. As I come around to the tension side having already set a few wedges, she starts going soft on me and I realise there's next to no decent holding wood on the tension side of the hinge. Was nothing in the face cut to warn me, the tree seemed solid and very much alive. Had I plunged through the middle of the face above the hinge I would have had an indication of rot. Heck, even if I had plunged to start my backcut I would have got an inkling not all was well with that tree as even though Totora is soft, it's not that soft. With not enough solid wood on the tension side of the hinge and unable to get enough lift on the wedges it dropped only about 10 degrees off it's natural lay and I was fortunate to not snap any fence posts.

Faced with that scenario, how would you pros deal with it? Blocked it down? Rope/cabled it? Pushed it over with your digger/harvesters? What sort of cut would you have used? How would you test for rot in a way that doesn't compromise the holding of the tree or limit your felling cut options should you find rot?

Some days, I think I need to knock off a few hours early and use the time to walk around my stumps and make the most of any lessons that crop up during the day so I learn them and what to do differently next time around. It's a slow process, this learning, if I'm to do it relatively safely.

 

[KiwiBro]

avoid being in harms way

thank you. It strikes me that assessing where that harm might come from is 90% of the battle.

 

[KiwiBro]

In timber that is brittle the siswheel works well . It allows the holding wood to flex and move forward while still hanging onto the tree and thhereby pulling it into the face and your intended lay .

I m e . Trees don't chair as much when the holding wood is only from the heart out to the holdinng wood side . .

Thanks. I googled siswheel and came up with this:
[video=youtube;BFiytdsdXfw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFiytdsdXfw[/video]

 

[tramp bushler]

It would be good if Burvol or Tarzan would get on here . They r real good with the camera .

 

[KiwiBro]

I have scraped a few pics from my barber chair video but can't seem to upload them to AS at the mo'. :frown:

 

[KiwiBro]

If you are going to live long enough to get good .you have to know when you are blown out . Falling slick timber in gale force wind is a real easy way to die .
Remember , you have to get good before you can get fast .

I do understand what you are saying and thanks for pointing it out. Speed doesn't bother me. It will come with experience, not the other way around, I promise. Can you please explain where the hazards are apart from perhaps a strap blowing out unexpectedly or a blow-down or similar debris taking me out?

I was working a small corridor/ wind tunnel with just a few of these tall slender trees at it's edge. The way they were orientated relative to the wind, I was not ever going to be directly downwind of any should they have uprooted. the others were short and bigger trunks with less windage on them, except the one rotten leaner I mentioned in a previous post. If they were gums there would be no way I'd be in amongst them as those are known here as widow-makers for good reason.

Because it looked like the risks of a blowdown were tiny and if it occurred I'd never be downwind of it, I thought I'd never get a better opportunity to learn high-wind felling with bore cuts and straps.

Was I just darn lucky? If so, what else should I have considered please? thanks.

 

[tramp bushler]

I don't know why he doesn't use a Dutchman with the siswheel . Also I can't figure out why he leaves holding wood on the off side . .

Using most different swing cuts is all about continous motion . If done correctly , once the tree starts moving it shouldn't stop until its on the ground . The siswheel just keeps the tree hooked to the stump for a short time longer

Do a search . There should be a thread on here about swing cuts .

Possibly a thread on Directional falling .?

 

[tramp bushler]

The wind just makes everything worse . How tall is the timber u r falling ? I wouldn't worry about getting high wond experience . You cut timber long enough and you'll get alot more of it than u want . .
Are you limbing and bucking where the lay or tree length logging them

 

[RandyMac]

I don't know why he doesn't use a Dutchman with the siswheel . Also I can't figure out why he leaves holding wood on the off side . .

Using most different swing cuts is all about continous motion . If done correctly , once the tree starts moving it shouldn't stop until its on the ground . The siswheel just keeps the tree hooked to the stump for a short time longer

Do a search . There should be a thread on here about swing cuts .

Possibly a thread on Directional falling .?

I do hate it when a tree comes off the stump and floats away. :hmm3grin2orange:

The old blockcut will keep the trunk on the stump for a very long time and can control the stem all the way to the ground. It does work better if the trunk has a bit of girth to it.

 

[tramp bushler]

Hey Randy
How did u guys get those faces out ?
I've seen pics of big big big trees that had block faces .

 

[RandyMac]

Plunge cuts, chunkin' it out.

Cody the Tarzanman did this
Falling Old Growth Redwood; Humboldt County CA 2002 - YouTube

One of mine on a little Pine.

 

[RandyMac]

I lifted this from an earlier post.
They are basic examples

Humboldt cut. Used when a flush butt is needed, it saves board feet. This style will push the trunk clear of the stump. If done properly, it will prevent the dreaded stump or fiber pull that cause deductible defect.

Open face or conventional cut. The snipe insures that the trunk will leave the stump and can be offset to roll the trunk away from obstructions in the lay, close to the stump.

The block cut, used mostly in the bigger timber, useful for controlling how the tree falls, not just a directional cut.