Milling Picture Thread

[GeneralKayoss]

Here’s another example of it from today’s cut on some white oak. This one is about 33 inch diameter at the big end and I have another of the same tree to do that is 45 inch diameter.

This chain was just sharpened with a grinder this morning.

Wondering if it is because it’s a full skip ripping chain. this archer chain is the very first full. Skip ripping chain I’ve ever used.

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I can't speak from experience because all I've used is full comp ripping chain, but I theorize that full comp cutters equate to a better finish but a slower milling time. Much slower when you get up around 30". On full skip chain, the cutters are so spaced out that the chain is wanting to "twist" between the cutters, if you think about the physics involved. That twist is where you get the gouging when it feels grabby. Again, just me theorizing here.

Honestly I wouldn't worry about rough finish though, the chances of them drying perfectly flat negate the finish and you'll have to surface anyway.

Yeah, the biscuits should work well like that, I use them for picture frame miter joints too on larger frames. Love the alignment simplicity of biscuit joining, but would love much more having the Festool domino joiner for something more akin to mortise and tenon strength. Didn't use any brackets. The glue face is so enormous on those joints that as long as I do really precise joints, between the glue bond and the biscuits the joint should be fairly bomb proof.

Yeah the mortise/tenons like we were talking about is a good idea I think. Here's my budget brackets lol

 

[Oletrapper]

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Not recent, but just passing along a lesson learned. If you are using windshield wiper fluid in your lube tank for cold weather milling, i recommend you not use Rain-X wiper fluid. It's a good product for autos, but not sawmill tanks. Best I can tell, the wax congealed. Why it did it in the sawmill tank, and not do it in autos, I dunno. The only other liquid in the lube tank was water.

Maybe vibration caused separation? Just a guess. OT

 

[U&A]

Good chance that could be happening. The cut may be happening clean with the leading edge and the loose flapping chain on the trailing edge is ridging the wood a bit. None of those photos just posted look especially bad, kind of what I grew to expect in 3/8 or .404 milling results, certainly with full skip, though could be better. The only difference in cut quality of WP vs Archer is likely in full comp vs full skip. Archer's easily as good chain as WP. Do check how much play the chain has in the bar rails.
I use pretty much any old wood glue, have some Gorilla wood glue right now, Titebond 3 does sound like excellent stuff. I like the idea of extended working times, because it can take me awhile to get glue on all the biscuits or dowels and everything clamped on a larger project and I don't like glue drying too quickly.

Ok. Thank you. So im possibly on the right track. Iv always wondered why such long bars don’t honestly have a bigger arch/radius to them so the chain always has slight tension on it. That long very minimal arch can allow the chain to flop out easy.

Know what I mean?

Ill have to not buy full skip any more once this chain is used up. I just hate sharpening all them cutters on full comp .

I really did not want to switch to .404 just because of cost. You think 3/8 is not adequate for 56” bar on the 3120? Would .404 be worth the price jump and greatly reduced stretching under load? I can not tighten the chain any more. It is plenty tight and id be over doing it if I did it more.

 

[U&A]

I can't speak from experience because all I've used is full comp ripping chain, but I theorize that full comp cutters equate to a better finish but a slower milling time. Much slower when you get up around 30". On full skip chain, the cutters are so spaced out that the chain is wanting to "twist" between the cutters, if you think about the physics involved. That twist is where you get the gouging when it feels grabby. Again, just me theorizing here.

Honestly I wouldn't worry about rough finish though, the chances of them drying perfectly flat negate the finish and you'll have to surface anyway.

Yeah the mortise/tenons like we were talking about is a good idea I think. Here's my budget brackets lol

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Ok

Thank you. And the skip is not grabby at all when sharpened right. BUT you are right if you dont do your job in keeping them all similar it can be hell on a saw with vibrations. I learned that lesson and hence did breakdown and buy a grinder to help. Keep them all uniform..

I totally can picture what you are saying about the cutters twisting when there is more space between them. I’m sure full, tries to do it too, but being the cutters are closer they fight each other from doing it much more. And personally if I’m milling boards for myself to sell once it gets lower than about 26-28 inches in diameter I will pass it up a lot of times unless it is a really good one. That requires my 42” bar in the mill jig. So i try to spend most of my time beyond your 30” theory if I can.

Thanks guys!!

 

[U&A]

Here is the 45” diameter one i hope to get to the end of this week. Forgot to measure the length but it’s definitely over 10 feet long I’d say 12ish. Same tree as the pics i posted above

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

The spacing of full skip and prolonged side to side deflection between teeth is why I'm mystified no one has ever commercially produced "double skip" and so few people even custom grind it. It's less teeth than full skip so even more efficient, but keeps cutting pairs bunched together to minimize that twist/deflection. (Grind off alternate pairs of teeth on a full comp chain, so there's a cutting pair, about 4 inches of space, then another cutting pair.) Like you say, skip shouldn't really be grabby, if anything it's a bit less because fewer teeth engaged, I think it's just you go faster with skip because it cuts more easily and the faster you mill the more likely the teeth are to grab and bog the saw at times and make milling a bit uneven. All about being patient and figuring out a good steady speed that achieves good results without being too slow.

I hate sharpening all those cutters on full comp 36" or bigger too, I'd rather sacrifice a bit of smoothness to not have to sharpen that many. With full comp, to keep all the cutters equally effective you have to keep all the teeth perfectly even or some teeth will be doing the brunt of the work while others do not much of anything. So I'd rather just use less teeth lol and have it take less time to sharpen them all precisely. Also at a certain point somewhere past 30" slabs with 3/8" chain you just have too many teeth engaged w full comp for cutting to be as effective anymore due to the cut getting clogged with chips and skip is better. That's where moving up to .404 can maybe be beneficial for better chip clearing, but it depends on the wood. I think in dense hardwood, narrower chain is almost always better, and I feel like .404 shines better in big softwood. I've only used .404 and 3/8LP aside from some early milling with 3/8" when I barely knew my ass from a hole in the ground, so don't know about the stretch issue on big bars of 3/8 vs .404. I think it's fine running 3/8 on the 56" bar, but the 3120 is (like the 880) a torque monster saw designed to run .404 (take larger bites at slower speeds). What sprocket are you running? I would run at least an 8 tooth sprocket w 3/8 to up the chain speed of the 3120.

 

[GeneralKayoss]

Here is the 45” diameter one i hope to get to the end of this week. Forgot to measure the length but it’s definitely over 10 feet long I’d say 12ish. Same tree as the pics i posted above



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What a whopper! I stick with 30" and less because that's about all I can stand to move by hand. lol

Also at a certain point somewhere past 30" slabs with 3/8" chain you just have too many teeth engaged w full comp for cutting to be as effective anymore due to the cut getting clogged with chips and skip is better.

That hickory was only 20 inches wide but man was it tough! Probably the hardest wood I've milled yet. Started getting setup at 8am, figured I'd have this stuff cut and stacked in a couple hours. It was well after lunch before I got done. Did spend a good amount of time resting in front of the fan in the barn though, it was hot. lol

 

[U&A]

The spacing of full skip and prolonged side to side deflection between teeth is why I'm mystified no one has ever commercially produced "double skip" and so few people even custom grind it. It's less teeth than full skip so even more efficient, but keeps cutting pairs bunched together to minimize that twist/deflection. (Grind off alternate pairs of teeth on a full comp chain, so there's a cutting pair, about 4 inches of space, then another cutting pair.) Like you say, skip shouldn't really be grabby, if anything it's a bit less because fewer teeth engaged, I think it's just you go faster with skip because it cuts more easily and the faster you mill the more likely the teeth are to grab and bog the saw at times and make milling a bit uneven. All about being patient and figuring out a good steady speed that achieves good results without being too slow.

I hate sharpening all those cutters on full comp 36" or bigger too, I'd rather sacrifice a bit of smoothness to not have to sharpen that many. With full comp, to keep all the cutters equally effective you have to keep all the teeth perfectly even or some teeth will be doing the brunt of the work while others do not much of anything. So I'd rather just use less teeth lol and have it take less time to sharpen them all precisely. Also at a certain point somewhere past 30" slabs with 3/8" chain you just have too many teeth engaged w full comp for cutting to be as effective anymore due to the cut getting clogged with chips and skip is better. That's where moving up to .404 can maybe be beneficial for better chip clearing, but it depends on the wood. I think in dense hardwood, narrower chain is almost always better, and I feel like .404 shines better in big softwood. I've only used .404 and 3/8LP aside from some early milling with 3/8" when I barely knew my ass from a hole in the ground, so don't know about the stretch issue on big bars of 3/8 vs .404. I think it's fine running 3/8 on the 56" bar, but the 3120 is (like the 880) a torque monster saw designed to run .404 (take larger bites at slower speeds). What sprocket are you running? I would run at least an 8 tooth sprocket w 3/8 to up the chain speed of the 3120.

Its a 7

Yah an 8 would definitely help and I should have thought of that.

To be honest iv never had anyone complain about the “washboard” or whatever we are calling it. But i do understand it being a bit of a eye sore. Tho most everyone is going to plane them right off anyways, so it doesn’t matter.

I guess is from my limited experience. It’s kind of the nature of the beast from time to time when chainsaw milling. Band saws shine in that aspect. And than new portable circular saw mill thingy.

 

[U&A]

I really studied the picture of my boards with the “washboard” and remember distinctly when it happened now. It was at the points that i was traveling the fastest thru the log. So it is from the full skip aspect and not the chain stretching.

100% from moving fast with the skip im sure of it.

 

[GeneralKayoss]

I really studied the picture of my boards with the “washboard” and remember distinctly when it happened now. It was at the points that i was traveling the fastest thru the log. So it is from the full skip aspect and not the chain stretching.

100% from moving fast with the skip im sure of it.

Yeah trying to push the saw harder than it wants to cut always leads to bad things for you, the slab and the saw it seems like.

 

[J D]

https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...appen-when-milling-but-only-sometimes.367850/
Some good input from @BobL on this thread. I have experienced the same & believe the washboarding is more a combination of conditions that lead to a resonant oscillation. There are other threads where we have discussed it further but I can't seam to find them right now

 

[GeneralKayoss]

https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...appen-when-milling-but-only-sometimes.367850/
Some good input from @BobL on this thread. I have experienced the same & believe the washboarding is more a combination of conditions that lead to a resonant oscillation. There are other threads where we have discussed it further but I can't seam to find them right now

Me and Coralillo have discussed that in depth a bit. It's definitely a combination of factors, the biggest of which is most likely chain whip. Watch your chain, there will be a spot high in the RPM range where the centrifugal forces makes the chain leave the bar grooves on the backside, in the middle of the bar. In essence it's dragging along that bottom surface cutting channels, and probably chattering up and down and channeling both surfaces. But unless you need a nice rough finish (it only helps me take pretty pictures lol), it doesn't really matter.

 

[U&A]

I want to ask you guys a question. Ill try and keep it short. Iv got a 43-45” diameter X 10’6” long white oak log that im getting paid to mill @ 9/4’s. Its on a tree service owner’s property and he offered to help me load the boards on the trailer with a skid steer with forks. But…. I know he is busy and I don't want to come get him every 20 min to load one board at a time.

My thought was to mill the first at 2.25”. Take the wedges out, then set the mill at 4.5”, take the wedges out then do 6.75”. Maybe jist stick with 3 at a time.or maybe just do 2 to be safe.

If I set the mill depth correctly do you think this will work and they will be the same thickness? I don't see why not but iv never done it like this.

I will use a leaf blower to blow all the saw dust out between the boards before removing the wedges each time.

Thoughts?

 

[GeneralKayoss]

I want to ask you guys a question. Ill try and keep it short. Iv got a 43-45” diameter X 10’6” long white oak log that im getting paid to mill @ 9/4’s. Its on a tree service owner’s property and he offered to help me load the boards on the trailer with a skid steer with forks. But…. I know he is busy and I don't want to come get him every 20 min to load one board at a time.

My thought was to mill the first at 2.25”. Take the wedges out, then set the mill at 4.5”, take the wedges out then do 6.75”. Maybe jist stick with 3 at a time.or maybe just do 2 to be safe.

If I set the mill depth correctly do you think this will work and they will be the same thickness? I don't see why not but iv never done it like this.

I will use a leaf blower to blow all the saw dust out between the boards before removing the wedges each time.

Thoughts?

That might just work, but don't use wedges. It only took me milling a couple logs to find a better way lol... cut shims about an an inch to an inch and a half wide, however long, the same thickness as your chain kerf, maybe just a hair more. Just make sure they're consistent so they go in tight but not so tight you have to knock them in every time. Works so much better than wedges that constantly fall out with vibration.

 

[U&A]

What a whopper! I stick with 30" and less because that's about all I can stand to move by hand. lol

That hickory was only 20 inches wide but man was it tough! Probably the hardest wood I've milled yet. Started getting setup at 8am, figured I'd have this stuff cut and stacked in a couple hours. It was well after lunch before I got done. Did spend a good amount of time resting in front of the fan in the barn though, it was hot. lol

Any pictures of the hickory ?

 

[U&A]

That might just work, but don't use wedges. It only took me milling a couple logs to find a better way lol... cut shims about an an inch to an inch and a half wide, however long, the same thickness as your chain kerf, maybe just a hair more. Just make sure they're consistent so they go in tight but not so tight you have to knock them in every time. Works so much better than wedges that constantly fall out with vibration. You'd have trouble trying to keep everything level with wedges too.

I made a bunch out of oak years ago and they never fall out

 

[GeneralKayoss]

Any pictures of the hickory ?

I posted some on the last page, towards the bottom.

I made a bunch out of oak years ago and they never fall out

Yeah you probably don't with the bigger heavier stuff like you mill! Disregard the previous comment. For some reason my oddball brain was thinking you were going to leave the wedges in as you cut the next slab below .

You've got it figured out.

 

[J D]

I want to ask you guys a question. Ill try and keep it short. Iv got a 43-45” diameter X 10’6” long white oak log that im getting paid to mill @ 9/4’s. Its on a tree service owner’s property and he offered to help me load the boards on the trailer with a skid steer with forks. But…. I know he is busy and I don't want to come get him every 20 min to load one board at a time.

My thought was to mill the first at 2.25”. Take the wedges out, then set the mill at 4.5”, take the wedges out then do 6.75”. Maybe jist stick with 3 at a time.or maybe just do 2 to be safe.

If I set the mill depth correctly do you think this will work and they will be the same thickness? I don't see why not but iv never done it like this.

I will use a leaf blower to blow all the saw dust out between the boards before removing the wedges each time.

Thoughts?

I would say you're asking for compounding inconsistency with every cut you make.
If I was the customer I would go out of my way to get the best result from you & potentially save myself some finishing work down the track. Obviously this depends on what he has planned for the slabs & every situation is different. Maybe run your thoughts past the customer & put the onus on him to decide

 

[U&A]

I posted some on the last page, towards the bottom.

Yeah you probably don't with the bigger heavier stuff like you mill! Disregard the previous comment. For some reason my oddball brain was thinking you were going to leave the wedges in as you cut the next slab below .

You've got it figured out.

No big deal man. I appreciate the help regardless. I am still learning. I just go for the big ones because nobody else around here will. Most guys cant mill past 36”. There is one other within a few hours of me that can do big ones but you have to bring the log to him.

I hope one day to buy a slabber mill and have sumthin to move boards with. Even a compact tractor may be strong enough to lift the boards. No way i can afford an $80,000 skid steer. I will need to find a way cheaper means to do this.

 

[ThistleIA]

Some years back I resawed on the bandsaw & rip fence some small pieces of scrap Hard Maple I found in my inventory as flat spacers.Started out with a dozen if I remember,there's 8 left. Made them just a hair over 3/8" thick,2.5 to 3" wide,roughly a foot long,with slight bevel edge on one end,so to absorb any hammer or mallet blows,the other end has a slight taper across the width (maybe an inch or so in length) to aid in the placement of them along the log or cant (its rare that I mill any lumber or slabs more than 8 feet in length,most is 5 or 6 feet since most of the furniture & cabinets I've made over the decades are usually 5 feet max for the longest dimension)

I also spray painted them hi vis fluorescent orange,to make them easier to spot in the sawdust,grass or snow.Pretty simple & they've done the job for 30+ years.