Mini skid

[squad143]

I took down a large willow in a back yard last week. It was 150' to the 40" gate and another 50' to the driveway (Had a 40 yard bin delivered). I was given the job by another tree company. (They didn't take a cut, they had me deal with the homeowner). The other tree company did not think that they could make much of a profit (using their 6 ground workers).

I did the climbing and had two guys (plus my mini) on the ground. Finished it in a day (14 hr) thanks to the mini.

I would not have even attempted the job without the mini. My profit from this job would have paid for 1/2 the price of this used mini.

Do I use the mini all the time?... No, but when I do, it is invaluable.

Comes in handy for moving the trailers (and chipper) as well.

Not bad for 3 guys, a pickup, a bandit 65xl and a mini!

 

[arbor pro]

I took down a big willow this weekend as well. Didn't want to climb it as there were a number of hollows and dead wood in the canopy so, we moved the genie towable lift in through the neighbor's back yard under the 6' high canopy of a dozen trees. Knocked the tree down in a couple of hours using the lift, moved the lift back out of the yard and started forwarding brush and logs to the street with the mini skid. After the main debris was out, I hooked up my 665a grinder (65hp diesel) to the mini skid and ground out the 10' dia stump (big root flare) in about an hour. Finally, I cleaned up almost an entire dump trailer load of stump mulch with the mini and finished the job, from start to finish, in 6 hours with just two guys and the right equipment.

This was one of those jobs where 'normal' sized equipment just wouldn't fit. Too many low tree canopies and flower beds to get big stuff in. However, the mini skid and towable lift were perfect for the job and made it relatively easy to get done. The homeowners were defininitely impressed!

 

[tntree]

got to love the minis,
I wonder what the ratio of companies still out there humpin logs and brush by hand is compared to companies with forwarding machines?

 

[arbor pro]

got to love the minis,
I wonder what the ratio of companies still out there humpin logs and brush by hand is compared to companies with forwarding machines?

Dunno - but, I can operate my mini for about $30/day including payments, maintenance and fuel. That's about two hours wages for a groundsman who won't do a fraction of the work that a mini can do...

 

[codog]

Mt-52

I think I was mislead again.
After deciding against a Boxer because I don't think the nearest dealer was completely honest with me, I bought an MT-52 which has saved me a ton of work. I haven't had it long and I love it even though there are two issues that concern me.
1. I have less then 10 hours on it. The last time I used it, I noticed the hour gauge acting funny. It was about to roll over to 239 hours and all of a sudden it goes back to 235. Should I think this gauge has been tampered with?
2. Before the dealer delivered it, they said they went through it, replacing all filters and fluids, along with greasing it. I checked the oil after using it the first time and the level was good, but it sure was dark for having a fresh oil change.

I'm thinking the dealer, I'm tempted to say the name and location, has lied to me. The unit seems to be in good shape, but I'm really wondering if I bought what I thought I was getting. Why would the oil look so bad so quick? I should have looked at it when they delivered it.

 

[arbor pro]

You didn't buy it from a certain Harv in Michigan I hope...

Seriously, unless you get 100% of the oil out of the engine when you do your oil change, you're probably going to turn the new oil black fairly quickly. I wouldn't be so worried about that. I would look more closely at whether there appears or feels to be metallic grit in the new oil which would be a sign of an engine that has had some heavier wear on it.

If in doubt, take it to someone who works on kubota diesels and ask them about it. They might be able to give you some insight on how much use the engine has had.

Good luck.

 

[gr8scott72]

You didn't buy it from a certain Harv in Michigan I hope...



Good luck.

Now there's a name I'm trying to forget. lol

 

[codog]

Mt-52

No, I bought it from a dealer in Lansing. I've heard about the guy your refering to. The deal on mine was I bought it from an individual but the dealer was the middleman. If they sold it for this individual, he agreed to buy one of the bigger tracked units. They couldn't give him what he wanted on a trade, instead peddling it for him. I've been looking at everything and comparing and I thought I was getting a pretty good deal, which I still believe I did. But I think there are things about this machine that I don't know about yet. I just have a bad feeling. Dealer called me and said he talked to his manager and said he could sell me a new hour meter for half cost which would be 35 dollars.

I'm going on my 4th season in this business. I've loved it, but so far I have been screwed 4 times this season already. I've never had anything to complain about this business until now. I think it's just tough times for a lot of people and morals aren't a priority right now.

 

[treemandan]

I'm still a big fan of the DR PowerWagon but it sure can't compete with a Boxer on the big chunks. I've not used the Boxer to drag brush yet but I'm looking forward to it.

well, bubba, it seems you are, ahem, catching up.:greenchainsaw:

 

[codog]

catching up

Yea, I guess things have been too good for too long.

 

[tntree]

I'll chime in here. As a former tree company owner, I started it from scratch and sold it for a tidy 801K(semi-retirement joke) 26 years later. Heres some of my used Equip experience and advice to you testosterone filled tree biz owners.

In my early years I always went cheap, and used with equipment. As I got older and a little wiser I discovered that a little Debt and new equipment made me more money with less headaches than used old stuff.
That said I did score some decent used Equip in my early years that made me good money, sadly that was not the story for the majority of my used equip purchases. Broke Equip cost me jobs, and big repair bills, and made me a midnite mechanic more times than I ever wanted to be.
I strongly believe if I would have bought new Equip when I had the need and the work to keep it busy, Success would have come faster than 26 years

This is easier said then done when you want a new $140,000 Clam truck, or a $100,000 bucket and your a young pup with no bank track record. As great as though machines are the Mini has as much potential to make money save time and for a much smaller investment of 15 to 20 thousand. To many guys miss this small economic lesson and pay out much more money in labor and sweat and effort. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar If I was to start all over in the Biz again A mini would be standard Equip, just like a Pickup, a Trailer, 020, 44, & 66. The Bucket trk and Clam will have to wait for more growth.

If you are good arborist and a competent bizniz man and you find yourself and your men draggin brush and cartin logs outa backyards by hand 2 or 3 times a week. Get Smart finance a new mini - concentrate on doin the tree work, you won't regret it and you'll be able to afford the bucket, stumper, & clam much faster.

Dave's 2 cents, just another Tree Guy

 

[treemandan]

I'll chime in here. As a former tree company owner, I started it from scratch and sold it for a tidy 801K(semi-retirement joke) 26 years later. Heres some of my used Equip experience and advice to you testosterone filled tree biz owners.

In my early years I always went cheap, and used with equipment. As I got older and a little wiser I discovered that a little Debt and new equipment made me more money with less headaches than used old stuff.
That said I did score some decent used Equip in my early years that made me good money, sadly that was not the story for the majority of my used equip purchases. Broke Equip cost me jobs, and big repair bills, and made me a midnite mechanic more times than I ever wanted to be.
I strongly believe if I would have bought new Equip when I had the need and the work to keep it busy, Success would have come faster than 26 years

This is easier said then done when you want a new $140,000 Clam truck, or a $100,000 bucket and your a young pup with no bank track record. As great as though machines are the Mini has as much potential to make money save time and for a much smaller investment of 15 to 20 thousand. To many guys miss this small economic lesson and pay out much more money in labor and sweat and effort. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar If I was to start all over in the Biz again A mini would be standard Equip, just like a Pickup, a Trailer, 020, 44, & 66. The Bucket trk and Clam will have to wait for more growth.

If you are good arborist and a competent bizniz man and you find yourself and your men draggin brush and cartin logs outa backyards by hand 2 or 3 times a week. Get Smart finance a new mini - concentrate on doin the tree work, you won't regret it and you'll be able to afford the bucket, stumper, & clam much faster.

Dave's 2 cents, just another Tree Guy

I guess if some of the company owners got off thier wallets back in the day and got something besides a wheelbarrow I wouldn't be so pissed either.

 

[shack]

Tntree, thank you for that post. It might be the best and most insightful post i;ve read on here. Real good stuff. Again thank you.

 

[John464]

I'll chime in here. As a former tree company owner, I started it from scratch and sold it for a tidy 801K(semi-retirement joke) 26 years later. Heres some of my used Equip experience and advice to you testosterone filled tree biz owners.

In my early years I always went cheap, and used with equipment. As I got older and a little wiser I discovered that a little Debt and new equipment made me more money with less headaches than used old stuff.
That said I did score some decent used Equip in my early years that made me good money, sadly that was not the story for the majority of my used equip purchases. Broke Equip cost me jobs, and big repair bills, and made me a midnite mechanic more times than I ever wanted to be.
I strongly believe if I would have bought new Equip when I had the need and the work to keep it busy, Success would have come faster than 26 years

This is easier said then done when you want a new $140,000 Clam truck, or a $100,000 bucket and your a young pup with no bank track record. As great as though machines are the Mini has as much potential to make money save time and for a much smaller investment of 15 to 20 thousand. To many guys miss this small economic lesson and pay out much more money in labor and sweat and effort. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar If I was to start all over in the Biz again A mini would be standard Equip, just like a Pickup, a Trailer, 020, 44, & 66. The Bucket trk and Clam will have to wait for more growth.

If you are good arborist and a competent bizniz man and you find yourself and your men draggin brush and cartin logs outa backyards by hand 2 or 3 times a week. Get Smart finance a new mini - concentrate on doin the tree work, you won't regret it and you'll be able to afford the bucket, stumper, & clam much faster.

Dave's 2 cents, just another Tree Guy

you make great points and I totally agree with your way of thinking. Nicer/newer equipment normally allows you to make money faster and stay on top of the work instead of in the shop. However, I believe tree care operations that are only running a mini are limiting themslves.

For example, look at that pic Dan (treeco) posted. Sure the boxer is picking up a piece that would of took two guys to lift it up in the truck, but once its in the truck and you need to get the next piece by stacking it on top of the last piece. The mini cant reach up high enough, so you have the same two guys manhandling it so you can achieve a full load.

See all that bucking that Dan did in that photo? Why dull your chain and spend the time cutting that log into 40 18" pieces when you could of cut the log in 3 pieces? With the right loader, same log, 3 cuts, stacked neatly and high in the dump truck 20xtimes faster and your saw doesnt need a touching up. Take equipment spending with TNT's mindset and buy a loader bigger than a mini. I just don't get it with this whole craze of mini's, for skidding brush/tops to the chipper they work well, but for loading wood, its the mini productive way of going about it. I try to think on terms of mass production with new equipment purchase.

Dan sorry to use your machine as an example. Im sure its a been a big asset to your company coming from the powerwagon. Congrats on the purchase

 

[John464]

No problem at all. I know where you are coming from.

I've owned a Bobcat 7753 since 1989. I brought the Boxer home in the back of a pickup truck and used the forks on the Bobcat to unload it.

Don't knock my Powerwagon!

ha! see I knew you'd be a good sport. now thats a pic id like to see. do you take your bobcat on tree jobs and will that quick attach on the mini hook to your bobcat?

 

[gr8scott72]

you make great points and I totally agree with your way of thinking. Nicer/newer equipment normally allows you to make money faster and stay on top of the work instead of in the shop. However, I believe tree care operations that are only running a mini are limiting themslves.

For example, look at that pic Dan (treeco) posted. Sure the boxer is picking up a piece that would of took two guys to lift it up in the truck, but once its in the truck and you need to get the next piece by stacking it on top of the last piece. The mini cant reach up high enough, so you have the same two guys manhandling it so you can achieve a full load.

See all that bucking that Dan did in that photo? Why dull your chain and spend the time cutting that log into 40 18" pieces when you could of cut the log in 3 pieces? With the right loader, same log, 3 cuts, stacked neatly and high in the dump truck 20xtimes faster and your saw doesnt need a touching up. Take equipment spending with TNT's mindset and buy a loader bigger than a mini. I just don't get it with this whole craze of mini's, for skidding brush/tops to the chipper they work well, but for loading wood, its the mini productive way of going about it. I try to think on terms of mass production with new equipment purchase.

Dan sorry to use your machine as an example. Im sure its a been a big asset to your company coming from the powerwagon. Congrats on the purchase

I bought a machine right between a mini and a full size and love it. 3000 lbs, 4' wide, smooth tracks don't mare up grass, can lift about 1,000 lbs and hinge pin is over 6 feet tall.

Wow, can't believe I've had it for a couple of months already and that is the only picture of it I have.

 

[tntree]

Tntree, thank you for that post. It might be the best and most insightful post i;ve read on here. Real good stuff. Again thank you.

Thanks Shack,
Full disclosure In addition to being the first accreditated tree company in MN and a Certified Arb, I am a mini loader dealer and grapple builder - I also sell articulating loaders and Mustang skidsteers.

John 464,
I was kinda coming from the point of guys that have no forwarding machine. They are cutting things even more and probably making log steps at there truck to walk the log poker chips up(man been along time since Ive done that) The BI was throwing the steps in when all the logs were loaded.

Hey always bring in the biggest Equip, the job will allow if you have it, and it doesn't rip the site up. Not sure how guys get away with using full size skidsteers, and alot of guys have told me that there large skid sits more as they opt for the convenience of hauling the mini.

Frankly I loved my swingers and I kept my little Gehl AL20 articulating loader good lift height and NO turf damage. But new your looking at 25grand and up.

For starters a mini can exponentially save more money than a laborer, Probably than a chipper if you can dump for cheap. I am saying don't wait till you save the cash if you have the work and your going to stay in the biz finance it now. Same goes if you can stomach bigger payments get an articulating machine they kick a__ on the minis. If you have all contract work removing trees along a road and no clean up buy a bucket NOW.

My point is don't be afraid to go a little in debt if you have the work, Just make sure you can cover your payments the right equip is always less than paying manual labor.
In this Biz minis are very little debt for your return compared to a Chipper, bckt or clam.

Treeco
This Pic is for you, Branch Manager mounted to a fullsize skid plate in Arizona. movin big wood its been down there 3 years with no problems ~ the owner has common sense though

 

[nickblaze466]

i have two "mini" fullsize machines - 450 and 443 and love them both. they do a great job, and so far i've been nothing but thrilled with the products that bobcat has made.

a while ago i had a chance to purchase a brand new finn eagle mini skid steer for 5500.00 - i passed, and have been kicking myself ever since.

gr8scott - that rc-30 looks pretty neat. i've never seen smooth tracks on a machine before. i can see the appeal being probably almost zero damage to turf, but how well do they work in rougher terrain? mud/snow/sand?

 

[arbor pro]

I've been in this biz for 24 years and, if I had to start over today with very little capital or credit, I would definitely try to make a mini skid part of my equipment inventory. However, I also find that a bucket is also something I wouldn't want to be without and I understand that when you're starting out, you can't afford everything and you don't always have good enough credit to finance everything you want.

The point Dan made was a good one though - if you've been in business a few years and have good credit, having good equipment will make you money in the long run so long as you have the workload there to keep the equipment busy.

In an earlier post, I commented that my mini costs me about $30/hr to own and operate. So, when I figure my job bids, I make sure I charge it out at $30/hr. If I use it for a couple of hours a day, that's $60 that's charged to the customer and goes towards the payments and maintenance.

I think the problem some business owners encounter with owning equipment is that they fail to charge for their equipment and only for labor. In order to pay for equipment, you have to charge for it - period. On many of my bids, the cost estimate for the bobcat, aerial lift, chipper, etc exceeds the cost estimate for labor. That's just how it goes.

 

[tntree]

i have two "mini" fullsize machines - 450 and 443 and love them both. they do a great job, and so far i've been nothing but thrilled with the products that bobcat has made.

a while ago i had a chance to purchase a brand new finn eagle mini skid steer for 5500.00 - i passed, and have been kicking myself ever since.

I believe the ditchs are walk behinds, good machines not knocking them at all but I would rather ride. I know several guys who picked up those close out finns, great machines basically a copy of a ramrod 900 only with more features. 55 was a BUY!

gr8scott - that rc-30 looks pretty neat. i've never seen smooth tracks on a machine before. i can see the appeal being probably almost zero damage to turf, but how well do they work in rougher terrain? mud/snow/sand?

I here good things about the RC30's with that green smooth track, Never run one though. I would bet it goes nowhere in snow, Ramrod has a smooth track for there minis and it was buetyus on Turf but worthless on snow, you had to switch it back to lug tracks.

Arbor Pro
I think Billing your equip is a good model, wish I would have worked it that way. I figured out my total cost to operate and billed the men out to cover all expenses including the Equip.

"I think the problem some business owners encounter with owning equipment is that they fail to charge for their equipment and only for labor. In order to pay for equipment, you have to charge for it - period. On many of my bids, the cost estimate for the bobcat, aerial lift, chipper, etc exceeds the cost estimate for labor. That's just how it goes."

And they fail to use equip to save them mega time and labor costs