Modern replacement for Pro Mac 10-10?

[Mac&Homelite]

One thing I will say about the newer saws, they are somewhat quieter and you have less ear problems with them than the older saws..

Well that is partially true. My ms361 was pretty quiet until I got sick of it heating up and roasting my hand so I opened the muffler. Sorry I can't hear what you just said, but my what's important is that my hand stays cooler while I am milling with it.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

I kind of wish I had used my ear plugs more in the past. I can hear well but I also hear things that aren't there...Any mufflers I modify will be for someone else or it won't get used much...

 

[Mac&Homelite]

I kind of wish I had used my ear plugs more in the past. I can hear well but I also hear things that aren't there...Any mufflers I modify will be for someone else or it won't get used much...

I hear you, my earmuffs are on the list of my favorite things, especially if they have a radio in them. I couldn't stand the heat the saw was building so that was the main reason for the mod. Getting a bit off topic here though.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

I need to remember when messing with saws to use the ear muffs I have hanging nearby but usually I forget.

 

[raumati01]

I like the sound of a Mac 10-10 in the morning, it sounds like victory.

 

[DSW]

For a chainsaw engine under load there is one and only one correct fuel mixture: just slightly richer than max power in order to to have a safety margin. Anything else is losing power, wasting fuel and/or risking engine damage. These simple systems are adjusting for that point regularly just by varying the mixture and watching the rpm change. You cannot increase power by feeding it more fuel, and you cannot reprogram the feedback system for more power (so who cares about the code?).

A conventional carb can be adjusted to give a correct mixture for at best two rpm points: idle and at some specific high rpm. At every other rpm it is wrong, usually rich but possibly lean as well. If you have no accelerator pump then you have to set the idle too rich as well so it will accelerate. This has nothing to do with the skill of the tuner, it is inherent to the way the carbs work and is simply the best they can do. The feedback carbs can do better, keeping the mixture correct as the rpm changes - a conventional carb cannot.

I understand that some find these things intimidating, but most kid's toys are more complex these days. Troubleshooting them is not a big deal, and people have had no trouble replacing the bad fuel control actuators that Stihl had. The number of people on this board that actually understand how the conventional carbs work and can diagnose them is quite small, most just replace parts and hope. Just like the conventional carbs the feedback ones are cheap, simple junk (they should not be expensive). They will have defects, failures and wear out, as will all things electronic, mechanical or even biological. Nothing lasts forever.

I've seen your posts on here and I can tell you're a knowledgeable guy. I believe you do the build threads on the less popular saws that I like to read as well.

Think about how many 3 series saws are out there running and how many 5 series are tanked. Did Husqvarna forget how to build a saw?

A standard carb saw only has two ideal points, idle and flat out? I'm not even goofing with you but what else do you need? If a saw will sit and idle and then run flat out in the cut it will do 100% of everything I've ever needed.

 

[DSW]

On topic, keep the 10-10. You want a modern saw get an 026 or a 440.

 

[brandonstc6]

On topic, keep the 10-10. You want a modern saw get an 026 or a 440.

I would fix the 10-10 and get a modern saw to go with it. NOS parts can be found pretty reasonably on eBay.


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[Chris-PA]

A standard carb saw only has two ideal points, idle and flat out? I'm not even goofing with you but what else do you need? If a saw will sit and idle and then run flat out in the cut it will do 100% of everything I've ever needed.

Yes it is usable that way, and it's how all my cheap saws work and I cut all my wood that way. However, I spent a lot of time learning how real carburetors work and how to tune and modify them, and I know that even the cheapest BS mower carb can hold a consistent fuel/air ratio without blowing raw fuel out and misfiring. Then again many do not know how to tune a conventional carb, and so many saws run even richer all the time, and many saws get ruined.

I know that does not bother most people here - it's what people are used to, fuel is cheap and the young are invulnerable and don't mind breathing it. However, here is a very simple system that fixes it and only increases power and performance, using no additional sensors or adding to weight and bulk. Regardless of what defects and design errors various manufacturers have had (many not directly related to the feedback carbs), there are lots of these out there running well. I wish they would put them on lower priced saws, as if you look at the parts you can see this is a very inexpensive system.

 

[DSW]

Yes it is usable that way, and it's how all my cheap saws work and I cut all my wood that way. However, I spent a lot of time learning how real carburetors work and how to tune and modify them, and I know that even the cheapest BS mower carb can hold a consistent fuel/air ratio without blowing raw fuel out and misfiring. Then again many do not know how to tune a conventional carb, and so many saws run even richer all the time, and many saws get ruined.

Cheap saws? It's how every saw works, emphasis on work.

660, 460, 372, 390, 395 they all work that way. It's not exclusive to a Wild Thing. Billions and trillions of board foot are cut every week by saws that have two settings. What do you need that they don't? It's not feathering an F1 car around a hairpin.

 

[Chris-PA]

Cheap saws? It's how every saw works, emphasis on work.

660, 460, 372, 390, 395 they all work that way. It's not exclusive to a Wild Thing. Billions and trillions of board foot are cut every week by saws that have two settings. What do you need that they don't? It's not feathering an F1 car around a hairpin.

Even if tuned perfectly all of those saws will run so rich they misfire with only a minor increase in rpm. If you load them and drop the rpm below the point where they were tuned they go lean (why do you think engines get hot and burn up if people push them with dull chains?). I'd like a fuel system that can keep constant mixture with rpm changes, like even the cheapest mower can and these cannot. AT/MT does that. There were many costs of different kinds associated with cutting that wood with saws that have such poor fuel systems, but it saved the saw manufactures a couple a dollar or two a saw. I get that this does not bother you, but it does bother others, and fortunately it is now being addressed. That's enough off topic and it isn't important to me anyway, so carry on.

 

[DSW]

Even if tuned perfectly all of those saws will run so rich they misfire with only a minor increase in rpm. If you load them and drop the rpm below the point where they were tuned they go lean (why do you think engines get hot and burn up if people push them with dull chains?). I'd like a fuel system that can keep constant mixture with rpm changes, like even the cheapest mower can and these cannot. AT/MT does that. There were many costs of different kinds associated with cutting that wood with saws that have such poor fuel systems, but it saved the saw manufactures a couple a dollar or two a saw. I get that this does not bother you, but it does bother others, and fortunately it is now being addressed. That's enough off topic and it isn't important to me anyway, so carry on.

So we should build saws that adjust to people who don't know how to sharpen a chain? Why don't we just build a saw that automatically sharpens the chain and actually works?

Let's assume the whole system actually works and is inexpensive to produce, do you think they would be more prone to failure? Maintenance? Cleanings?

I think you are saying you would prefer a carb to adjust perfectly at every rpm at any cost and I think you are in the minority. A saw that does two points perfectly, not to mention the two points you use almost exclusively, for 95% of it's life is way more attractive to me than a saw that has the perfect mixture at every rpm, on those days that it decides to run.

 

[Chris-PA]

I think you are saying you would prefer a carb to adjust perfectly at every rpm at any cost

Clearly I never said such a thing, and also that my instinct to stop discussing it with you is correct.

 

[DSW]

I agree. We're taking this too far off topic. I look forward to any build threads you do in the future and didn't mean any disrespect.

So what's the verdict on which saw the original poster is buying?

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

We have electric control carbs on the new xp550s at work, when the want to run the will? If you LOVE pulling a starter cord their awsome!
Carburetors are on demand vacuum devices with a venturi , they give what the air flow demands period. Attempts to control it have failed miserably in the auto industry (Yea 80s cars!) The fact that we have to revisit this in the saw industry is ridiculous. Complete fuel injection Systems are are good solution to a carburetor, but really a carburetor will do what its supposed to do for 40+ years and screw driver maintenance physics details this .
Control is an illusion in many parts of life and electrical carburetors are one of them ,(see) the history of the GM quarda-jet...