Modern replacement for Pro Mac 10-10?

[TBS]

The "wild thing" is only a 40cc homeowner saw and a big step down from a 10-10 quality and power wise. They are ok saws but no where near the best in the 40cc class. The 361 is a great saw and stihl has dealers most everywhere unlike husqvarna, the husqy models mentioned are good too, so are echo, and dolmar/makita but they don't have the dealer network.

 

[Chris-PA]

the ordinary man can not do much to tune them or fix them, its going to
be a trip to the dealer, and part with money do do some of the things you could do on an ordinary saw that has a carb

Well, you don't need to tune them because that is what they do. Why can't you fix one? It's a perfectly ordinary carb with an actuator to control the fuel mixture and maybe a switch. It's got diaphragms, a metering valve and check valves just like any other, it's just the mixture needles that are not there.

What are these "things you could do on an ordinary saw that has a carb", other than make the mixture wrong?

 

[James Miller]

If you want to stick with an older saw you can't go wrong with a poulan 3400.

 

[Greenerpastures]

Well, you don't need to tune them because that is what they do. Why can't you fix one? It's a perfectly ordinary carb with an actuator to control the fuel mixture and maybe a switch. It's got diaphragms, a metering valve and check valves just like any other, it's just the mixture needles that are not there.

What are these "things you could do on an ordinary saw that has a carb", other than make the mixture wrong?

Or make the mixture right, which is possible outside the MT framework.
What happens when the selonoid goes wrong, how do we diagnose this, or over come it without
a trip to the dealer, when an ordinary saw has a much cheaper carb on it that one can simply swap
out to get you going.
And why have people actually put standard carbs on these MT saws, and left the selonoid dangling
so as to keep the engine from cutting out, and what is going to happen to that dangling selonoid
when it no longer gets lubricated with the fuel nor has any environmental protection outside of its socket,
what happens when that coil goes out, and thus the controller that is embeded
in it goes too, can't very well replace one without the other.

Am not expecting anyone to follow my ideas, just saying when the chips are down
its much easier to keep an old style saw up and running.

Bad design. Seporate the components, open up the code, and price the components
to make them cheap enough so people will support the system, otherwise watch as
those who give the system a go eventually get burned and jump ship.

 

[rwoods]

Hello all - another new forum member here.

Well, after 50 faithful years of service, my well loved 10-10 which was handed down from my late father. gave up the ghost. The engine still starts and runs easily and strong, but the oiler is virtually gone, it will empty the oil tank in less than a minute of actual use (although it slings a mean sheet of oil down the chain. it'll never rust, that's for sure!) and the plate that holds the chain tension screw has fatigued to where it's just not holding tension.

it's a sad day for me as I have many happy memories with my father cutting firewood with it. It's always been a dead reliable unit.

So - that brings me into the 21st century. I have never looked at, researched, or really handled any other chainsaw other than mine. kinda thought it might last long enough to hand down myself..

Can someone offer some modern quality makers/models that would be in a similar performance range? (a lighter power head never hurts either! that thing was a tad heavy by the end of the say) I ran with the 20" bar usually, but had a 24" for the occasional bigger job.
While my use us light these days - I looked at a few "homeowners" models in Menards, and wasn't impressed. they seemed like cheap toys...I want something that will hold up like the Mac did. We used to cut about 10-15 cords of oak a year back in the day. Parts is a big thing too. I could buy a chain or bar literally anywhere for mine. Something as common as that is a bonus.

Price? meh. who cares. If it lasts another 50 years like the last one did- even a thousand dollar saw only costs $20 a year.

Too bad the 361 fell through. I have one I love, but it has a lot of plastic. Will a plastic tank last 50 years, IDK.

If you like your 1010, then get another one - like new ones are out there. If you want new, then get a Stihl 362 as it should be nearer the torquey characteristics of a 1010 than say a Husky - though the Husky may cut faster in most situations. Either one is a good saw, but I doubt anyone is going to promise that all of the plastic will last 50 years.

Ron

 

[holeycow]

oh Gawd.

The track record of the electronic carbed saws is less than stellar, at best. The track record of many new-model saws is similar wrt mechanical integrity.

It is certainly not hard to set a saw's carb. To me, it doesn't seem that the OP requires that feature. Not even a little bit.

I, for one, will stay away from these "improvements" for a few years yet.

I am not a pro, but work in situations where there might be 50 or more pros on site. The problems these poor guys have been having with new saws over the past almost 10 years is mind numbing at times. Guys with experience used to arrive with 2 saws...maybe. Now they have 3 or 4 on board.

You just gotta hear (and/or feel) these electronically control saws run to know that they constantly run on the edge of lean... which is no way to encourage longevity in a 2 stroke.

 

[holeycow]

yous who have not been around a lot of saws working over the past 30 or more years have no idea, btw. This is a useless argument with yous.

NONE of the experienced, working sawhands trust the technology. NONE.

 

[Greenerpastures]

oh Gawd.

The track record of the electronic carbed saws is less than stellar, at best. The track record of many new-model saws is similar wrt mechanical integrity.

It is certainly not hard to set a saw's carb. To me, it doesn't seem that the OP requires that feature. Not even a little bit.

I, for one, will stay away from these "improvements" for a few years yet.

I am not a pro, but work in situations where there might be 50 or more pros on site. The problems these poor guys have been having with new saws over the past almost 10 years is mind numbing at times. Guys with experience used to arrive with 2 saws...maybe. Now they have 3 or 4 on board.

You just gotta hear (and/or feel) these electronically control saws run to know that they constantly run on the edge of lean... which is no way to encourage longevity in a 2 stroke.

Hi holeycow, Agreed.
I think we are heading for a throw away saw platform to keep the EPA and those who bennefiit
because of their crap happy and wealthy.
And I think the cost will just keep on rising with every must have feature,
to the extent the small man will be forced out due to inflated prices.
And the small saw shops, what the hec are they going to do when you walk in with a computer with a chain
hanging off it, the technology will render them too expensive to fix in any event, thus buy a new one so some
waster higher up the food chain can afford his life style while ours is slowly but surely made impossible.

 

[Greenerpastures]

yous who have not been around a lot of saws working over the past 30 or more years have no idea, btw. This is a useless argument with yous.

NONE of the experienced, working sawhands trust the technology. NONE.

I know the guys here would have a fit if you tried to convince them to take up the
new tech saws, and why, because some did, and man did they suffer, buy a new saw,
it heats, it wont start, it dies, take it in and out to the delaer over and over and no fix.
End up a couple of weeks later buying a standard saw and cutting your loses,
the other option is to loose your contracts, no work, no bills paid, not eat,
thansk to Stihl and Husqvarna.

 

[holeycow]

thanks to the EPA. The manufacturers struggle to keep up with their ever-increasing regulations. The manufacturers are probably gnashing their teeth too.

 

[Chris-PA]

Or make the mixture right, which is possible outside the MT framework.
What happens when the selonoid goes wrong, how do we diagnose this, or over come it without
a trip to the dealer, when an ordinary saw has a much cheaper carb on it that one can simply swap
out to get you going.
And why have people actually put standard carbs on these MT saws, and left the selonoid dangling
so as to keep the engine from cutting out, and what is going to happen to that dangling selonoid
when it no longer gets lubricated with the fuel nor has any environmental protection outside of its socket,
what happens when that coil goes out, and thus the controller that is embeded
in it goes too, can't very well replace one without the other.

Am not expecting anyone to follow my ideas, just saying when the chips are down
its much easier to keep an old style saw up and running.

Bad design. Seporate the components, open up the code, and price the components
to make them cheap enough so people will support the system, otherwise watch as
those who give the system a go eventually get burned and jump ship.

For a chainsaw engine under load there is one and only one correct fuel mixture: just slightly richer than max power in order to to have a safety margin. Anything else is losing power, wasting fuel and/or risking engine damage. These simple systems are adjusting for that point regularly just by varying the mixture and watching the rpm change. You cannot increase power by feeding it more fuel, and you cannot reprogram the feedback system for more power (so who cares about the code?).

A conventional carb can be adjusted to give a correct mixture for at best two rpm points: idle and at some specific high rpm. At every other rpm it is wrong, usually rich but possibly lean as well. If you have no accelerator pump then you have to set the idle too rich as well so it will accelerate. This has nothing to do with the skill of the tuner, it is inherent to the way the carbs work and is simply the best they can do. The feedback carbs can do better, keeping the mixture correct as the rpm changes - a conventional carb cannot.

I understand that some find these things intimidating, but most kid's toys are more complex these days. Troubleshooting them is not a big deal, and people have had no trouble replacing the bad fuel control actuators that Stihl had. The number of people on this board that actually understand how the conventional carbs work and can diagnose them is quite small, most just replace parts and hope. Just like the conventional carbs the feedback ones are cheap, simple junk (they should not be expensive). They will have defects, failures and wear out, as will all things electronic, mechanical or even biological. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[Greenerpastures]

There are some carbs that have three adjustments, to eliminate lean conditions,
I read somewhere in one of the build threads, they are impossible to get now,
buying them NOS off ebay does not work, for one of the adjustments is concelaed,
and looking at the carb wont tell which carb is which, they had the same number
as it was upgraded but not marked as such, they came OEM on some saw, but
again, buy that saw, and you could still end up with the non modded carb.
The code is important, or nothing in the MT would work, if you could alter
the code you could alter the saws performance, more fuel means more speed
up to where the intake cant provide enough air, or some other bottle neck gets
in the way, I would like to see the code, as seeing it would reveal how the system works.
Even changing the language used can make differences, do we know what language
is used in MT, is it compiled or simple scripts, makes a big difference.

But yes, I do get what you are saying.

 

[Chris-PA]

There are some carbs that have three adjustments, to eliminate lean conditions,
I read somewhere in one of the build threads, they are impossible to get now,
buying them NOS off ebay does not work, for one of the adjustments is concelaed,
and looking at the carb wont tell which carb is which, they had the same number
as it was upgraded but not marked as such, they came OEM on some saw, but
again, buy that saw, and you could still end up with the non modded carb.

But yes, I do get what you are saying.

There are/were some ZAMAs that had a 3rd fixed jet feeding directly from the main fuel well to an additional transfer outlet. It is independent of either needle. This would operate mostly at part throttle, when the edge of the throttle plate was near it. Enlarging this jet, or raising the metering lever and adjusting the H & L will allow you to tune that part of the range. However, if you make it fat there for acceleration, it will also be fat if you hold it at part throttle, as the carb does not care. A feedback carb could adjust if held steady at part throttle.

 

[Greenerpastures]

Hi Chris
That is really interesting, and Dolmar used this type I guess from the logo.
This is the system I heard described somewhere else, good to see this diagram.

Regards, john

 

[a. palmer jr.]

I used my Wild Thing yesterday to do some really dirty work that I didn't want to use a good saw on and it did just great on it. But still not a good replacement for a 10-10. If you just did odd jobs around the house like cutting down Pampas grass like I did and occasional loaning out to brother in law, the WT is perfect..

 

[svk]

If your budget allows I'd buy a 550XP or Stihl 261 (make sure it's the second generation model). They will be a bit lighter and cut much faster.

I think if you get a homeowner grade 50 cc saw you may not be happy with the performance. I never ran them head to head but I think my 2-10 would outcut my 450 Husky. They will be close though and the price is better. The Dolmar 5105 or its Makita/Mayruama (sp??) counterparts are a good choice with good power but will be a blockier saw than what you are used to. Or I'd take a serious look at the Echo 590 which will be a bit heavier but more powerful.

As a few others said, I'd repair your saw as well. I have a couple 10 series parts saws and would be happy to pass along parts or a whole parts saw for a very low price or maybe even just for the cost of shipping depending on what you need.

 

[ironman_gq]

What part of MN are you from? Shouldn't be too hard to find a good dealer near you, I'd recommend either buying a new saw or seeing if the dealers have any used saws. At least buying from them you know that the saw has at least been looked at by dealer

 

[Greenerpastures]

well, the 361 is a bust. talking with the owner gave me that "pass" feeling. Ended up talking with the neighbor. He said he had a saw I could have if I could get it running. He'd only used it a few times and then it wouldn't start anymore.
It's a "Wild thing" made by poulan. Thing's basically hardly new. Whoever set the carb up on it though should have been shot. The thing was so lean I'm surprised it ever ran at all. After some judicious fiddling and cleaning of the old gas and varnish in the carb it starts and runs fine - but if this is the way saws have gone these days. I'm not impressed. the thing feels like a kids toy. I mean it's really light. but it's got nowhere near the power. Feels like I'd break the thing on anything larger than a 10 inch tree. Cut up a few small logs and it ran fine, but I can't "bear down" on the log like I'm used to with the mac. Feels like I just have to keep the rpm's really high and use a light touch. It's certainly not what I would call a chainsaw. more like a brush whacker. I'll keep it for pruning or if I ever have to work on a ladder or carry it a long way. Either that, or I'll sell it to a vikings fan. it's all sorts of fugly purple like the team colors. Then again - maybe the all steel McCullough is just a fat pig too. I could be biased on that. Shame what poulan has become. We used to have a monster with a huge bar back in the 70's that was a total beast. It was probably twice as heavy as the pro mac, and I seem to remember it being temperamental, but we used it on the real massive stumps and it had power to spare. Dad got rid of it after we got the new fireplace and didn't need as much wood.

Buy a Husqvarna 372XP while they are still available, good robust carburated saw,
no gimicks, just straight forward grunt, I made the mistake of selling mine,
and to replace it I have resorted to Makita, as good a saw as you get these days.
Lots of 372 's sold, should be parts for a long time yet, and there are also aftermarket
parts available for them too.
Nothing is made like your old saw was, they put plastic in everything they can instead
of some Aluminium or Magnesuim, they don't want it to last, and you won't beet them
as they are all the same, less you make your own saw.

Regards, john

 

[raumati01]

There’s two types of people out there- those that run 10-10s or variants of them and those that wish they did.

Fix the old Mac and buy two or three more to keep it company.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

One thing I will say about the newer saws, they are somewhat quieter and you have less ear problems with them than the older saws..