More adventures in lo pro milling

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Hone your skills with the grinder and a file.
Getting 8 and 10 pin rims isn't easy to run with LP chain. I found the 8 pin is definitely faster if, the big if, you can pull full comp. I can on 36 or 40" and the big saw would surely need 10 pin being modified or the ported one. I will say the nasty 660 is enough to tareup 375 Oregon loops. When that happens it's back to 404 on the 28" and up setups milling or stumps. I've been known to pull 404 in 28" on the 660 for dirty deeds. My biggest gripe is hanging on to 10k in the cut. Once my chain speed on 7 pin drops below 9k on the 660 the chip starts to get jammed on hardwood or softwood wood over 30" wide. Pulling 404 in the big wood on the 60" with full comp needs about 12hp so the next saw will have a broader top end run to try lp on and forget about the midrange on the next 084 cylinder. It has plenty of bottom end on the modified saw running stock cylinders. I'll never have 088 grunt but I rarely buck anything over four foot. Done most of the tree work I used to do so the 660 sees most of it's time on the mill. The 066 handles killing and bucking most times with 32lw. I'm not into swinging the 40 or 60 much bucking. That's a young man's chore. Will the LP take the kind of abuse put to it, idk, time will tell. I know the LP won't handle dirt or heat like the big chain does. Archer isn't even on the list of test chains. The big three are.

The new plan is building climbing saw from old to brand new and stick with the 394 stroker plan and the 660 stroker. The big saws can rest more if quality woid is being milled with LP chain. White oak and locust wouldn't be on that list. LP cutters generally can't take the heat or sandy bark like wind row black oak or mulberry.

I heard great things about the PFerd/Stihl 2 in 1 sharpeners for filing teeth and rakers at same time, so I got one for my lo pro chain. I nail/screw damaged a 20" and 36" LP chain, and maybe they were the demo chains I got and were already filed back some, but last time I sharpened them I noticed the teeth were all badly uneven lengths and I never ground them at all, just hand filed. Maybe the metal contact ate them up (didn't break though!). I resharpened the chains a couple of times and couldn't get them to cut worth a damn though the teeth feel very sharp. I know I need the rakers lower than the 2 in 1 file sets them when the teeth are filed back that much, but not sure that's it. Maybe too many teeth are just filed too far back to scarcely be wider than the bar anymore. I'll see how I do when I file the new chain I put on for the first time.

A certain amount of my issues over time have been due to cheaping out on quality. I bought a cheap HF grinder before I swore off of buying crap there anymore on general principle, and damaged more chains than I sharpened well before quitting using that. If I get another grinder, it will be a quality one. There's a decent Oregon 511A for sale locally for $100 I was thinking of grabbing. Chains I've cheaped out on due to my poor ability at maintaining them well. If I got my sharpening dialed, I'd much more readily buy top quality chain all the time. I've bought a certain amount of Oregon chain, but these days don't honestly know how high the quality is anymore. In lo pro, there seems to be little doubt Stihl 63PMX is considerably higher quality than anything else, most everyone agrees on that.

Agree that lo pro wants to be run in a clean environment. Milling cants it would be in its happiest place. I at least go ahead and clean the bark off the 3"+ mesquite slabs I resaw now. The one thing that is commonly assumed about lo pro is it's going to stretch way more on big saws and thus be at more risk of breaking. Because the resistance is so minimal due to the thin kerf, I don't actually find it's stressed badly at all when run properly without bogging it, and new chains have stretched no worse than larger chains have seemed to stretch when new. I should get a tach to see what my Supers are revving at, I know the 880 is limited at 8500 so that's just running slow and grunt-y through everything w .404. If I'm running only up to 30" widths with my 36 LP bar on my 045 Super, not sure the chip clearance thing is ever really an issue but I would like to get the most RPM's out of it I can for running lo pro. BobL said the 660 is a much higher RPM saw than the 045 Supers and better suited for high revs with narrower kerf in extreme hardwoods. Maybe the Super is not the ideal lo pro saw, a bit torque-heavy, but they're what I got. And I think they could probably be performance tuned to run higher revs. 38mm doesn't seem particularly long stroke for the bore, same 54mm bore as the 660 which is 40mm stroke, so the torque in the Super must come more from the tuning. As I say, though, I know little about the performance tuning side of things.

 

[Up A Creek]

It's not so much how much torque something has as it is where the majority of the torque is in the RPMs.
Horsepower is just torque X RPMs. You can have lots of torque at high RPMs and not have that low RPM Power you're talking about.

There are other things that affect it but the big thing is actually head and combustion chamber design. The better the air and fuel mix inside the combustion chamber the more power you make. Better mixing comes from more turbulence. The problem is as RPMs go up that same turbulence now starts to hurt the mix flowing in and out of the combustion chamber. Each stroke of the engine has less time to do the same things. At higher RPMs the speed of the flow becomes more important than the turbulence, so you can fit enough air into the cylinder. It's basically impossible to design an engine that can do both well.

Example would be older two valve engines. Think muscle car engines. Only having one intake and one exhaust valve in a large combustion chamber forces the air fuel mix to swirl around more as it comes in and goes out of the cylinder. This helps at low RPM and gives the engine more power at low RPMs. Lots of torque down low. Gives them that wheelie power on the drag strip. Also great for towing.
Also gives certain chainsaws that grunt your talking about. There's no valves in the chainsaw but the way the ports are designed they cause more turbulence so the air and fuel mix better at lower RPMs.
The trade-off is because of the turbulence they can't moves enough air in and out at higher RPMs so they can't make as much power.

Engines with four valves don't mix quite as well at low RPMs so they don't tend to have the same amount of torque at those lower RPMs. But the trade-off is they're able to flow more air at higher RPMs so they tend to make more horsepower than a two valve engine. Also because the valves are lighter it's a little easier to get higher RPMs out of them. Same thing goes for the newer saws with more horsepower. They don't mix as well at lower RPMs but they flow better at higher RPMs so are able to make that extra power at those RPMs. They also tend to make less emissions at higher RPMs which is where most of your saws run time is. Which is why most saws now are designed more for horsepower than torque. Same goes for cars.

Didn't mean to make this post quite so long, I'm actually posting from my phone.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I heard great things about the PFerd/Stihl 2 in 1 sharpeners for filing teeth and rakers at same time, so I got one for my lo pro chain. I nail/screw damaged a 20" and 36" LP chain, and maybe they were the demo chains I got and were already filed back some, but last time I sharpened them I noticed the teeth were all badly uneven lengths and I never ground them at all, just hand filed. Maybe the metal contact ate them up (didn't break though!). I resharpened the chains a couple of times and couldn't get them to cut worth a damn though the teeth feel very sharp. I know I need the rakers lower than the 2 in 1 file sets them when the teeth are filed back that much, but not sure that's it. Maybe too many teeth are just filed too far back to scarcely be wider than the bar anymore. I'll see how I do when I file the new chain I put on for the first time.

A certain amount of my issues over time have been due to cheaping out on quality. I bought a cheap HF grinder before I swore off of buying crap there anymore on general principle, and damaged more chains than I sharpened well before quitting using that. If I get another grinder, it will be a quality one. There's a decent Oregon 511A for sale locally for $100 I was thinking of grabbing. Chains I've cheaped out on due to my poor ability at maintaining them well. If I got my sharpening dialed, I'd much more readily buy top quality chain all the time. I've bought a certain amount of Oregon chain, but these days don't honestly know how high the quality is anymore. In lo pro, there seems to be little doubt Stihl 63PMX is considerably higher quality than anything else, most everyone agrees on that.

Agree that lo pro wants to be run in a clean environment. Milling cants it would be in its happiest place. I at least go ahead and clean the bark off the 3"+ mesquite slabs I resaw now. The one thing that is commonly assumed about lo pro is it's going to stretch way more on big saws and thus be at more risk of breaking. Because the resistance is so minimal due to the thin kerf, I don't actually find it's stressed badly at all when run properly without bogging it, and new chains have stretched no worse than larger chains have seemed to stretch when new. I should get a tach to see what my Supers are revving at, I know the 880 is limited at 8500 so that's just running slow and grunt-y through everything w .404. If I'm running only up to 30" widths with my 36 LP bar on my 045 Super, not sure the chip clearance thing is ever really an issue but I would like to get the most RPM's out of it I can for running lo pro. BobL said the 660 is a much higher RPM saw than the 045 Supers and better suited for high revs with narrower kerf in extreme hardwoods. Maybe the Super is not the ideal lo pro saw, a bit torque-heavy, but they're what I got. And I think they could probably be performance tuned to run higher revs. 38mm doesn't seem particularly long stroke for the bore, same 54mm bore as the 660 which is 40mm stroke, so the torque in the Super must come more from the tuning. As I say, though, I know little about the performance tuning side of things.

I'm not sure what the last guy just said but an 8 pin will speed up your older torque saw. It might be older and 38mm but it was designed to run at it's maximum flow numbers not a high reving saw like a 660 is. The 660 still starts losing over 9k unless you do some serious port work to it. You need to get your cutters and drags even within 0.003 if you have more then five run-out your not on point, period. A smooth chain is fast chain. Then try your 8 rim. My grinders all have quality dressed wheels on them. If you rock a chain go around three times instead of cooking it. Get an autograb or build one. Speed is the key to grinding. Knock off 1500 cutters in a session now your on point. I start with the long or the short of the lot. 3/16" wheel and get after it. 1/8" on lp and tiny chain cutters like 1/4". Use a very course grit. Dressing is important. Making every cutter and drag the same matters. You don't need much forward bite on a sharp chain. I run my drags high on new chains most times and dial in the cutters. 20/50/5 or 15/55/10 is a meaner chain in reality. It has more forward bite but less face angle. 404 maybe 20/50/0 with more off the drags then 375 or perhaps a 10/50/10 404 for a smooth finish but slower much slower cut. That chain will go three tanks in clean wood on the big saw. Can LP last more then one tank in even red oak? I'll know by this summer.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

It's not so much how much torque something has as it is where the majority of the torque is in the RPMs.
Horsepower is just torque X RPMs. You can have lots of torque at high RPMs and not have that low RPM Power you're talking about.

There are other things that affect it but the big thing is actually head and combustion chamber design. The better the air and fuel mix inside the combustion chamber the more power you make. Better mixing comes from more turbulence. The problem is as RPMs go up that same turbulence now starts to hurt the mix flowing in and out of the combustion chamber. Each stroke of the engine has less time to do the same things. At higher RPMs the speed of the flow becomes more important than the turbulence, so you can fit enough air into the cylinder. It's basically impossible to design an engine that can do both well.

Example would be older two valve engines. Think muscle car engines. Only having one intake and one exhaust valve in a large combustion chamber forces the air fuel mix to swirl around more as it comes in and goes out of the cylinder. This helps at low RPM and gives the engine more power at low RPMs. Lots of torque down low. Gives them that wheelie power on the drag strip. Also great for towing.
Also gives certain chainsaws that grunt your talking about. There's no valves in the chainsaw but the way the ports are designed they cause more turbulence so the air and fuel mix better at lower RPMs.
The trade-off is because of the turbulence they can't moves enough air in and out at higher RPMs so they can't make as much power.

Engines with four valves don't mix quite as well at low RPMs so they don't tend to have the same amount of torque at those lower RPMs. But the trade-off is they're able to flow more air at higher RPMs so they tend to make more horsepower than a two valve engine. Also because the valves are lighter it's a little easier to get higher RPMs out of them. Same thing goes for the newer saws with more horsepower. They don't mix as well at lower RPMs but they flow better at higher RPMs so are able to make that extra power at those RPMs. They also tend to make less emissions at higher RPMs which is where most of your saws run time is. Which is why most saws now are designed more for horsepower than torque. Same goes for cars.

Didn't mean to make this post quite so long, I'm actually posting from my phone.

Yeah, I theoretically get all the power equations, went to school to be an engineer but never really practiced it. Understand it's all about where on the power band the torque is, by calling a saw more torque-y or grunt-y I was being imprecise, I just meant that to be "torque in the lower power bands" like a truck versus the high rpm racecar kind of power where it's all in the higher bands. I've never studied or thought through two stroke chainsaw engines quite well enough yet to understand best ways to tune them for particular purposes though. Yeah, understand theoretically more or less but haven't put it in practice. I don't know what to think of think of everyone chasing horsepower in the chainsaw world regardless of application, though. There's this assumption by many that everything ported and tuned for higher horsepower is better - which in the cross cutting world I get but people assume in the milling world it's equally applicable and it seems trying to make Ferraris out of Silverados is not what you want for hauling a big load, i.e., milling. That's why I'm a bit skeptical of all those who say stock 880's are absolute dogs that need to be performance tuned to unleash their potential. They're trucks, they're meant to be trucks, they're tuned for max torque low in the rev band. I'm not especially concerned about getting rid of the rev limiters if their happy place is 6500-8500 rpm running .404. I suppose if you want to run 3/8" on them you want to up the revs, but that's not what they were made for. The 660 was well made for that. Some types of milling like lo pro, it seems you do want to be tuned for horsepower - more rpm's, max torque far higher in the rev band. I'm sure with actual physical alteration, i.e., porting, there's room for performance improvement overall in a stock 880 for milling, but I feel like most average folks in the chainsaw world don't really understand the equations and the tradeoffs in upping the horsepower by moving the torque higher in the rev band. Basically, most people think more horsepower is the end all.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I'm not sure what the last guy just said but an 8 pin will speed up your older torque saw. It might be older and 38mm but it was designed to run at it's maximum flow numbers not a high reving saw like a 660 is. The 660 still starts losing over 9k unless you do some serious port work to it. You need to get your cutters and drags even within 0.003 if you have more then five run-out your not on point, period. A smooth chain is fast chain. Then try your 8 rim. My grinders all have quality dressed wheels on them. If you rock a chain go around three times instead of cooking it. Get an autograb or build one. Speed is the key to grinding. Knock off 1500 cutters in a session now your on point. I start with the long or the short of the lot. 3/16" wheel and get after it. 1/8" on lp and tiny chain cutters like 1/4". Use a very course grit. Dressing is important. Making every cutter and drag the same matters. You don't need much forward bite on a sharp chain. I run my drags high on new chains most times and dial in the cutters. 20/50/5 or 15/55/10 is a meaner chain in reality. It has more forward bite but less face angle. 404 maybe 20/50/0 with more off the drags then 375 or perhaps a 10/50/10 404 for a smooth finish but slower much slower cut. That chain will go three tanks in clean wood on the big saw. Can LP last more then one tank in even red oak? I'll know by this summer.

Well, maybe the good folks at Chainsawbars will get GB or someone else to put out an 8 pin lo pro socket one of these days. Getting even the large spline 7 pin has been trouble enough, and not found in the US. Otherwise I'm left to machine down the circumference of a .404 8 pin to create a 3/8 LP 8 pin for 60+cc saws, long the solution of the few dedicated American lo-pro-ers, which I don't have the capabilities to do.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Well, maybe the good folks at Chainsawbars will get GB or someone else to put out an 8 pin lo pro socket one of these days. Getting even the large spline 7 pin has been trouble enough, and not found in the US. Otherwise I'm left to machine down the circumference of a .404 8 pin to create a 3/8 LP 8 pin for 60+cc saws, long the solution of the few dedicated American lo-pro-ers, which I don't have the capabilities to do.

You can find 375 rims that work if they have wide segments. Machine down 404 rims is why I save the old 404 rims. You can send stuff out or ask for others to cut you some. Guess I should start importing lp tips and selling a 375 lp kit. It's not that hard to figure out. Me, myself and I aren't all that bright but we manage just fine.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

You can find 375 rims that work if they have wide segments. Machine down 404 rims is why I save the old 404 rims. You can send stuff out or ask for others to cut you some. Guess I should start importing lp tips and selling a 375 lp kit. It's not that hard to figure out. Me, myself and I aren't all that bright but we manage just fine.

I could probably manage it if I got a little creative - not being imaginative saying I don't have capabilities. Lot of minor machining I can do with a 20" drill press, hand router, and carbide burrs.

 

[Mad Professor]

Well, maybe the good folks at Chainsawbars will get GB or someone else to put out an 8 pin lo pro socket one of these days. Getting even the large spline 7 pin has been trouble enough, and not found in the US. Otherwise I'm left to machine down the circumference of a .404 8 pin to create a 3/8 LP 8 pin for 60+cc saws, long the solution of the few dedicated American lo-pro-ers, which I don't have the capabilities to do.

The people who used to be Danzco I think have the 7-12-pin lo pro rims. They are now 6Kproducts

https://6kproducts.com/chain_saw_sprocket.html

not sure on prices. They made me a lot of 7-pin years ago



Chainsawbars has a lot of stuff but quite pricey, with shipping.

Here was Left Coast Supplies a few years back. Same GB bars and 63PMX chains

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

If I’d understood lo pro then and what I needed I would have stocked up from Left Coast. Kicking myself about that. What stopped me was I didn't know where to get sprockets. At least I got my 72” bar cheap then from them. Chainsawbars is pricey though shipping free over $120. But much of what I’ve gotten has been demo packages at dirt cheap prices so has been a bargain. (Something like $137 all told for two 36" GB bars - one new one demo - a rim sprocket, and two chains - one new one demo.) Great info on the 6k folks. Will look into what their min run for an order is.

 

[Up A Creek]

72" 3/8 LP?

It's a less expensive option than lo pro for a bit narrower kerf than 3/8", but though I don't have specs I think the kerf difference between .325 and 3/8" is so marginal it's not worth it and weaker chain. For the 3120 I'd stick with at least 3/8" chain. Yeah, it can run into some money, chainsaw milling. I've thrown far more at it than makes sense for the limited milling I do for my woodworking. But I'm also looking toward producing dimensional lumber for a house, so all my investments in saws and chains and building better widgets should someday be worth it. Lo pro is something I mainly see as suitable to really tough sub-30" slab hardwood milling - mesquite, pecan, hickory, osage, eucalypts - and for resawing either w a Logosol or w an Alaskan. Someone just posted a very simple technique of gang ripping 2x4's with an Alaskan I'd never thought of. They created a cant - though truth be told, you don't even have to square the sides of a log first - then I think chalk lined 4" wide marks on the surface of the cant and cut each line full depth with a circular saw 2 3/8" or so. Then they set their chainsaw mill for 2" deep and milled the cant, creating something like six 2x4's at a time out of a 25-26" cant. Ideally the circular saw will have cut deep enough to leave scoring lines in the wood below for the next cuts. I have a Big Foot that will cut 3 7/8" deep and a Makita 5401NA that will cut 6 1/4 deep, so I could minimize kerf waste and use the chainsaw less if I made 2x4's by cutting 3 7/8" deep w the Big Foot 10 1/4 saw and make all the cut lines 2" wide. (The Makita is slow and a bit underpowered for ripping 6" depths, can be done, but would probably stick with the Big Foot for 2x and 4x dimensional unless I wanted to cut 6x beams.)

Archer is one of the only companies I see making a full skip 3/8" ripping chain ready to go for your 3120. Though I think Forester does too. Here's the Archer - https://www.ebay.com/itm/3848386907...xOG2R_TW8o8T9vrdsY60xeKdYh133oYkaAp64EALw_wcB

Curious because the .325 is easy to find. And I already have sprockets for it.

I may order some LP stuff for this job, it's taking forever to find time to do it. Most of the logs aren't that big, 32" bar will take care of them.

I thought of doing that with the circular saw. I hate the cut this bigger stuff up though. Hopefully I can keep most of it as slabs. Some of the grain is really beautiful.
I have the Sawsquatch too. It's a beast! I love wormdrive saws.
I picked up a Festool HK 85 (had to come from Europe because they don't sell them here) so I can cut staright smooth cuts on the thicker stuff. Of course the "like new only cut once to test" saw had a bad bearing that damaged the commutator. So it has to go back.

I saw the Archer but I was hesitant on the quality. The WP I have has worked well so far and is half the price of the Oregon ripping chain. Which is a lot when you're talking about spools.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

72" 3/8 LP?


Curious because the .325 is easy to find. And I already have sprockets for it.

I may order some LP stuff for this job, it's taking forever to find time to do it. Most of the logs aren't that big, 32" bar will take care of them.

I thought of doing that with the circular saw. I hate the cut this bigger stuff up though. Hopefully I can keep most of it as slabs. Some of the grain is really beautiful.
I have the Sawsquatch too. It's a beast! I love wormdrive saws.
I picked up a Festool HK 85 (had to come from Europe because they don't sell them here) so I can cut staright smooth cuts on the thicker stuff. Of course the "like new only cut once to test" saw had a bad bearing that damaged the commutator. So it has to go back.

I saw the Archer but I was hesitant on the quality. The WP I have has worked well so far and is half the price of the Oregon ripping chain. Which is a lot when you're talking about spools.

No, no, 72" .404 for my MS880. 36" is probably the longest lo pro bar I'll ever use. I got a message back from the Danzco/6K folks about LP sprockets. They're checking stock quantity and pricing. I thought they did wholesale manufacturing but seems like they maintain stock of all the different sprockets and sell retail too. That's been the missing link for me in the US, the sprockets to run LP. Can buy Woodland Pro chain in ripping LP, can buy LP noses to put on a regular bar if nothing else though the GB lo pro bars are much more ideal to me and would have to import them. Chainsawbars has done such thriving business across Europe and the UK that I might start an online store here selling lo pro setups.
Big beautiful slabs should be kept whole if they look good. Dimensional lumber milling is more for wood that doesn't seem pretty enough to slab large. Worm drive saws are awesome! Found a lady selling a decently used Big Foot and a perfect condition Skil Mag 77 for $160 and snapped them up. The Skil is so soooo smooth, nicer than my ancient Bosch 7 1/4 worm drive. I was going to get a 10 1/4 tracksaw base for my EZ Smart track setup cause I have 9' of rails of theirs but their setup takes a full inch off a saw's depth and they went out of business so can't get the anti-chip guides from them anymore so just have those tracks for 5/4 stock with a regular DeWalt on a tracksaw base. The HK85 is looking like the way to go for trimming big slabs dead straight though. Wow that looks nice.
The Archer is so cheap in price I kinda figured "Chinese junk" at first but then I saw they actually use the same quality kind of quality nickel alloy steel imported from Japan to China that many other chain manufacturers do. I've had no bad experience with their chain at all, and would say it's every bit as good as Woodland Pro if not better. The long parroted notion WP is rebranded Carlton is no longer true I'm pretty sure. I don't think it's nearly the quality of Carlton. That said, it's generally decent chain, as is Archer, but I wouldn't call it any better than any other off brand these days. Oregon has become just way too big a mass market company for me to be sure their products are top quality any more. Stihl seems to be one of the few gold standards.

 

[Mad Professor]

If I’d understood lo pro then and what I needed I would have stocked up from Left Coast. Kicking myself about that. What stopped me was I didn't know where to get sprockets. At least I got my 72” bar cheap then from them. Chainsawbars is pricey though shipping free over $120. But much of what I’ve gotten has been demo packages at dirt cheap prices so has been a bargain. (Something like $137 all told for two 36" GB bars - one new one demo - a rim sprocket, and two chains - one new one demo.) Great info on the 6k folks. Will look into what their min run for an order is.

When I ordered my sprockets from danzco/6K they were not making lo pro med spline. I asked them (~15 years ago) and they did a run. Since I think they have seen the market for them.

I've got enough sprockets, wish I could find 63PMX chain cheaper. Have you used the Woodland LP chains?

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

When I ordered my sprockets from danzco/6K they were not making lo pro med spline. I asked them (~15 years ago) and they did a run. Since I think they have seen the market for them.

I've got enough sprockets, wish I could find 63PMX chain cheaper. Have you used the Woodland LP chains?

Same here regarding 63PMX - Woodland Pro had been my inexpensive go-to for regular ripping chain for awhile until Baileys seem to fall victim during the pandemic to the staffing and supply chain issues everyone else did and I started finding myself dealing there for the first time with some know nothing customer service and bad quality. I ordered a Woodland LP ripping chain and got something with unevenly ground teeth that all I could assume was the result of them being out of ripping chain and hastily and badly grinding a regular LP chain to ten degrees and sending it out. May have been a one off error but discouraged me from ordering any more of it. I asked customer service why they sold lo pro chain but nothing else lo pro and they told me I should "consult the internet about that" whatever that meant lol.
Searching the world for possible deals, I found a forestry store in the UK I've seen before, Fr Jones and Son, has 63PMX discounted to what seems about .45 a foot, far better than the .67 of Bailey's or the .68 of Chainsawbars. So I'm seeing whether shipping would be cheap enough if I bought a bunch of 36" loops to be worth it. I have three 36" GB lo pro bars and only two chains for the one I'm using, so if I want to sell my extra bars it would be worth getting a bunch of loops for them to sell them as packages and get some 63PMX loops for myself too.

 

[Up A Creek]

Just got my WP 33rp roll yesterday from Baileys.
Looks good. Just like the stuff I already have.
Speaking of Baileys, they actually have a 32? Inch 3/8 lp bar. Special order though.
I didn't look for sprockets.

I've been digging and thinking and 32 seems like the shortest bar I would need for milling?
You lose something like 10 inches to the mill (unless you're using something open ended), and I personally don't forsee milling much of anything under 24" or so?

I am curious how the 3/8 lp goes, but wondering if it's worth a different bar/sprocket/ chain for just one bar.....

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Just got my WP 33rp roll yesterday from Baileys.
Looks good. Just like the stuff I already have.
Speaking of Baileys, they actually have a 32? Inch 3/8 lp bar. Special order though.
I didn't look for sprockets.

I've been digging and thinking and 32 seems like the shortest bar I would need for milling?
You lose something like 10 inches to the mill (unless you're using something open ended), and I personally don't forsee milling much of anything under 24" or so?

I am curious how the 3/8 lp goes, but wondering if it's worth a different bar/sprocket/ chain for just one bar.....

Lose 6" to milling or less if you take dogs off the saw. I can mill 30" with my 36" bar using the clamps on my Alaskan, but my bars were predrilled for bolting directly on the mill (tap a thread in the upper clamp) so the spacing isn't as wide as it could be and I probably get 28" at best with the bolt on bar. (You see it in the first photo in this thread.) But with bolt on bar I can take chain off the saw without taking it out of the mill, which is handy. Woodland 33rp has always been good stuff for me. just had that one bad experience with the 63rp from them. Cannon 32" lo pro bar bit pricey at $224. As I said, if you ever get way deeper into milling and want to try it, I have a brand new GB 36" lo pro bar I'd sell for $150. Sprocket for $20. Most people are put off by the full conversion. I just find it a good complement to running a big saw like an 880/3120 whether w .404 or 3/8 for 30" and up and running lo pro for 30" and down on an 85-95cc saw and doing all dimensional lumber and resawing with lo pro. Just the lightness of the rig is a relief after using the big hawg. If not interested in cants, dimensional, or much under 30" and mainly doing big slabs, then no, not much reason for a lo pro setup. But man, it's easy milling and the smoothness of finish is unbeatable.

 

[Up A Creek]

I never use dogs when I'm Milling.
You almost never get the full rated length of the bar to use either.
The clamps for the mill take up an inch each. Another 4 inches on the tip and I like to leave some space between the mill and the muffler. Heat plus it leaves access for the tensioner.
And the largest part of the log is always a little bigger than the rest.

So yeah, you can always squeeze things right to the very edge but I prefer to jump up to the next length bar.

I might take you up on that. I'll think about it. That's a large spline rim sprocket, right?

Post up when that company gets back to you on the other sprockets please.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I never use dogs when I'm Milling.
You almost never get the full rated length of the bar to use either.
The clamps for the mill take up an inch each. Another 4 inches on the tip and I like to leave some space between the mill and the muffler. Heat plus it leaves access for the tensioner.
And the largest part of the log is always a little bigger than the rest.

So yeah, you can always squeeze things right to the very edge but I prefer to jump up to the next length bar.

I might take you up on that. I'll think about it. That's a large spline rim sprocket, right?

Post up when that company gets back to you on the other sprockets please.

True about having to max it to get only 6" off. My outer bolt hole is way back from the nose sprocket on the lo pro 36" I have and the inner gives the muffler plenty of room so I'm only getting 27" on my lo pro setup right now. Yeah, that's large spline rim. I may have an extra already but I'll let you know if 6K folks get back to me. Crickets so far, no followup. I do have another large spline 3/8 LP 7 tooth from Chainsawbars it seems beyond the two I have on my LP saws right now. Funny, looking thru the sprockets I took off to put those lo pro ones on, I was running an 8 tooth 3/8 on one of my machines - I don't even know which one. Thought I was running all 7 tooth sprockets. Was probably the 045 Super, which means I definitely want to be running an 8 tooth LP sprocket on it like I'm trying to get from 6K.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

The shipping price from Fr Jones and Sons defeated the savings on their 63PMX. Want about $100 for shipping five 36" chains, which puts it from just under $50 a chain to just under $70 a chain, and you can make them from rolls bought here cheaper than that. I've realized from trying to point someone on another forum to Stihl big bars at a good price that the trick with all things Stihl is having a dealer who is both knowledgeable, can get product easily, and not greedy. I saw a Stihl dealer in upstate NY with 41" bars in stock for $129, and a guy downstate told me his local dealer said it took six months to get them and they'd be $210. Baileys and all online Stihl sellers are resellers, not authorized Stihl dealers, so their prices are quite often higher than they could be. I imagine wholesale on a 100' roll of 63PMX is no more than $350. Just a matter of finding a dealer who won't mark it up too much. Since they can't sell online, few dealers maintain websites detailing their stock, and probably 1 in 1000 Stihl dealers these days is forestry knowledgeable, so that search is a needle in a haystack thing. If you don't live in a traditional logging area, Stihl dealers aren't much use. They've become way too big a company selling way too many products for such a tiny niche as milling to matter to them at all.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I heard great things about the PFerd/Stihl 2 in 1 sharpeners for filing teeth and rakers at same time, so I got one for my lo pro chain. I nail/screw damaged a 20" and 36" LP chain, and maybe they were the demo chains I got and were already filed back some, but last time I sharpened them I noticed the teeth were all badly uneven lengths and I never ground them at all, just hand filed. Maybe the metal contact ate them up (didn't break though!). I resharpened the chains a couple of times and couldn't get them to cut worth a damn though the teeth feel very sharp. I know I need the rakers lower than the 2 in 1 file sets them when the teeth are filed back that much, but not sure that's it. Maybe too many teeth are just filed too far back to scarcely be wider than the bar anymore. I'll see how I do when I file the new chain I put on for the first time.

A certain amount of my issues over time have been due to cheaping out on quality. I bought a cheap HF grinder before I swore off of buying crap there anymore on general principle, and damaged more chains than I sharpened well before quitting using that. If I get another grinder, it will be a quality one. There's a decent Oregon 511A for sale locally for $100 I was thinking of grabbing. Chains I've cheaped out on due to my poor ability at maintaining them well. If I got my sharpening dialed, I'd much more readily buy top quality chain all the time. I've bought a certain amount of Oregon chain, but these days don't honestly know how high the quality is anymore. In lo pro, there seems to be little doubt Stihl 63PMX is considerably higher quality than anything else, most everyone agrees on that.

Agree that lo pro wants to be run in a clean environment. Milling cants it would be in its happiest place. I at least go ahead and clean the bark off the 3"+ mesquite slabs I resaw now. The one thing that is commonly assumed about lo pro is it's going to stretch way more on big saws and thus be at more risk of breaking. Because the resistance is so minimal due to the thin kerf, I don't actually find it's stressed badly at all when run properly without bogging it, and new chains have stretched no worse than larger chains have seemed to stretch when new. I should get a tach to see what my Supers are revving at, I know the 880 is limited at 8500 so that's just running slow and grunt-y through everything w .404. If I'm running only up to 30" widths with my 36 LP bar on my 045 Super, not sure the chip clearance thing is ever really an issue but I would like to get the most RPM's out of it I can for running lo pro. BobL said the 660 is a much higher RPM saw than the 045 Supers and better suited for high revs with narrower kerf in extreme hardwoods. Maybe the Super is not the ideal lo pro saw, a bit torque-heavy, but they're what I got. And I think they could probably be performance tuned to run higher revs. 38mm doesn't seem particularly long stroke for the bore, same 54mm bore as the 660 which is 40mm stroke, so the torque in the Super must come more from the tuning. As I say, though, I know little about the performance tuning side of things.

Double reeds could pay big divotends milling. I'm considering them on my one saw for more grunt. It does one thing only buck with a bow. It could use more grunt for sure. Porting the cylinder will help. I do believe going with a bigger carb on that is a plus once ported and better reeds added. The compression is starting to go away after a decade of use so it's time to get in there to smoothing out and update the old wear items and toss some machine work at it for more compression.

Your 045 could use a timing advance I'm sure so getting a better air filter on it will make a big difference. Anything you can do to increase airflow will help. Porting a carb is one of the most overlooked performance gains on many tools or a simple swap to something slightly bigger.

Was out bucking locust yesterday with my 660 milling saw with a ride foot clamped on the bar. 28" 404 RS was the happiness chain yesterday. Was pleasantly surprised to see one of my ported saws at the jobsite running a long bar in locust on 59cc ported power head. It did very well and in fact almost out cut a 72cc modified saw. This was built as low compression easy to start saw and it is. The thing really does go with a 28 bar on it. The 72cc was running a 30". If I had a choice it would definitely be the 59cc milling or bucking vs the bigger saw. Nothing over a 100cc was run so the other milling saws were left home this trip. Next time there I hope to test a 166dl 404 custom loop in a 4ft burl maple log. Plenty of cherry just came in there and some fat chunks of gum to do something with or use as log bunks to get stuff up off the ground. A few five foot wide logs to be milled this spring mostly old hardwoods up there at that lot.

Have you tried any square filed LP?

 

[Lightning Performance]

I could probably manage it if I got a little creative - not being imaginative saying I don't have capabilities. Lot of minor machining I can do with a 20" drill press, hand router, and carbide burrs.

880 are dogs stock and they all need work is a true statement. I avoided them for just that reason. Once done they have the potential to be the strongest long bar saw for milling or otherwise with the largest case volume. Stroked to 45mm you won't find a stronger saw on gas. The big problem with them is the intake and carb are way small stock. Port timing numbers on the transfers are poor and not enough intake flow. Machine work is what they need first. Then swap to an 084 carb and intake. Two intakes were offered and several carbs are available OE and AM ht type. If your not putting on the best muffler mod everything else is a waste of time. These need to breathe just as much as all the rest do with restricted exhaust systems.