The "Killer Fog" you mention in PA, occurred in Donora, PA. Back in the 30's or 40's ? I lived in Donora for a brief period. The "Smog" was the result of Industry emmissions. Of course, WELL prior to industry standards and regulations regarding emmissions. A "perfect storm" if you will, happened, with barometricp pressure, wind, temp. and of course, poisonous industrial emmissions all arranged perfectly. This accident was NOT the result of simply burning wood....... although at that time, household emmissions would have been mostly coal ash/smoke.
Moving backwards: Northeasterners turn to burning wood for power
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The "Killer Fog" you mention in PA, occurred in Donora, PA. Back in the 30's or 40's ? I lived in Donora for a brief period. The "Smog" was the result of Industry emmissions. Of course, WELL prior to industry standards and regulations regarding emmissions. A "perfect storm" if you will, happened, with barometricp pressure, wind, temp. and of course, poisonous industrial emmissions all arranged perfectly. This accident was NOT the result of simply burning wood....... although at that time, household emmissions would have been mostly coal ash/smoke.
Olymon, you are not doing your research. State Parks are not National Forests. National Forests are not National Parks. Your State Park is run by you Iowegians. National Forests are run by the US Dept. of Agriculture, out of Washington DC. National Parks are under the Department of Interior. Then there are also large chunks of land under the Bureau of Land Management which is also FEDERAL.
High and mighty? I am simply correcting the misinformation you are posting. Do your research. Post facts. I seriously doubt that the EPA runs your state parks or ANY park. If they do, enlighten us with specific examples and references.
Firewood cutting is allowed by permit on USFS and BLM lands. Not everywhere on those lands, but in some places--depending on location and management zone.
Here is one example from one forest.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/okawen/passes-permits/forestproducts/?cid=fsbdev3_053611
Are there any National Forests in Iowa? I don't think there are. There are in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Tennessee, New Hampshire, Vermont and more. None in Maine.
Yes, but it is an example of WHY we have regulations and the EPA. It is an example of the conditions we get in the winter--called an inversion. Warm air above, traps cold air (and pollution) below. This can last for several days, and the air quality deteriorates each day. Our valleys are encased in fog and we can get up into the sun and warmer temps by heading up into the mountains. The folks in the more populated counties can be fined for having wood heat on those days UNLESS it is their only source of heat, or they show a financial need to only use wood for heat.
Oh yes. I fully agree with that. I simply thought you may be equating poisonous industrial emissions with wood smoke emissions. I'm sure even wood smoke can play havoc with one of "fragile lungs", however, industrial emissions, as you probably know, are another ballgame, as obviously mentioned in my Donora post. I'd have to look it up, but many people died..... many, otherwise "healthy" souls had it not been for the poison in the air. Pretty sure wood cannot emit that type of poison gas.
mainewoods
Addicted to ArboristSite
No National anything in Maine. State Parks - Indian tribal land - Paper Co. land and Martha Stewart land. You can visit and cut wood on all but Martha's.
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
You're forgetting the National Blueberry Preserve...I mean Acadia National Park
State Forests in Connecticut (and most of New England followed a similar model since they all tended to hire Yale Forestry School grads, if not the same person, to start their state conservation programs...Austin Hawes was the first state forester in both Connecticut and Vermont) were set aside first for wood production, second for water protection, and third everything else.
That generation had a vision of the forests being a public utility just like water -- believing, at least in more populated areas, the timeline of economic payback was too long for things like water supplies and forests for capitalists to properly steward the properties. Circa 1900 3% of Connecticut's acreage burned each spring, so there was a lot of land abandoned from farming, but that never got the chance to grow beyond the brush stage before a wildfire would sweep through again -- and what wasn't fire prone tended to be slower growing forests on north slopes and wetlands.
Maine Northwoods remote from large populations had a bit of a different economic and natural reforestation situation.
Realize too prior to 1950 or so we didn't ship goods in cardboard boxes. A state like Connecticut had lots of manufacturers, and they needed wood to build crates to ship their goods. The state forest concept was sold for supporting industry by providing a steady supply of natural resources just like you'd build public water systems to support factories.
As a general rule if it got the label "Park" then you don't see forestry or hunting allowed.
mainewoods
Addicted to ArboristSite
Forgot about "The People From Away National Park", formerly Acadia.
firebrick43
Life is all about big saws
How true that is. I have several neighbors that have shown intrest in wood heat since the propane prices have peaked. Talk to them about the labor and things they need to do and most change their tune, especially when I mention if they would own their own propane with enough capacity and summer fill it that the volitility of propane prices would be a non issue. 4 out of 5 of them plan to do just that. The one ***** is going to burn with wood but I don't see it working. They still have a quarter of a tree in their yard cut up waiting to be split and stacked since last august. I cut up most of it and split a 1/4 of it and left my maul. They removed a wood stove from the house when they moved in because it was to much work. But they do nothing that has a shred of common sense so I see them attempting a reinstall and getting half done.
old_soul
ArboristSite Operative
for whatever its worth when we started our business over 10 years ago. You couldn't give wood away. Everything had to be chipped or hauled to a dump site where it was ground up with a huge tub grinder.
Now a days I would say 75% of people keep the wood for themselves or a family member.
Unless its big stuff 36 inch+
nobody ever wants to keep that lol
Now a days I would say 75% of people keep the wood for themselves or a family member.
Unless its big stuff 36 inch+
nobody ever wants to keep that lol
philoshop
Addicted to ArboristSite
The smog that is held in the LA/san fernando valley is caused by automobile emissions trapped in an inversion. To address this problem the federal government decided that all vehicles throughout the country need to meet lower emission standards. It would be unthinkable to try to regulate the sheer number of cars in the problem area. Right?
A handful of areas throughout the US are plagued with wood-smoke smog at times. To address this the federal government, on behalf of those that don't burn wood, would like to regulate the burning of wood for heat throughout the country. I'm seeing a trend here and I won't go on.
A handful of areas throughout the US are plagued with wood-smoke smog at times. To address this the federal government, on behalf of those that don't burn wood, would like to regulate the burning of wood for heat throughout the country. I'm seeing a trend here and I won't go on.
MrWhoopee
ArboristSite Operative
I, too, am troubled by the increasing use of "biomass" for power generation. While I applaud the use of renewable resources, the timber companies are now cutting and chipping trees that were previously left to grow to marketable size. In my area, HUGE tracts of land are owned by Sierra Pacific Industries. They are currently harvesting right along the road into my neighborhood. In deference to the public visibility of the harvest, they are not clear-cutting, they are leaving about 5% of the trees. Anything lacking marketability as lumber is chipped and shipped to the cogen plant. If demand for lumber is down, they can chip trees up to 36 in. diameter. Here is a satellite picture of my little slice of heaven.
The only reason for the patchwork quilt pattern is environmental regulation limiting the size of clear-cuts. The are now beginning "adjacency cutting" (which can be seen just above Highway 44 on the left and at the far right), harvesting the areas between the existing cuts, which have obviously not recovered yet. While I recognize that they own the land and the corporation exists to make money, their actions have impacts well beyond the limits of their property. Large areas of exposed soil are resulting in warming of the earth, accelerated evaporative moisture loss and slowed recovery when they actually replant trees (only one species). And then there's the erosion (despite token attempts to control it) running into trout and salmon streams. I could rave on, but you get the idea. It makes matters even worse if the chips are being exported.
Besides, if anyone is going to burn those trees, let it be me and mine.
Edit: Oh, yea, I almost forgot. They're cutting the oak trees, which are no good for lumber or furniture, and CHIPPING them!!!! OH, THE HORROR!
The only reason for the patchwork quilt pattern is environmental regulation limiting the size of clear-cuts. The are now beginning "adjacency cutting" (which can be seen just above Highway 44 on the left and at the far right), harvesting the areas between the existing cuts, which have obviously not recovered yet. While I recognize that they own the land and the corporation exists to make money, their actions have impacts well beyond the limits of their property. Large areas of exposed soil are resulting in warming of the earth, accelerated evaporative moisture loss and slowed recovery when they actually replant trees (only one species). And then there's the erosion (despite token attempts to control it) running into trout and salmon streams. I could rave on, but you get the idea. It makes matters even worse if the chips are being exported.
Besides, if anyone is going to burn those trees, let it be me and mine.
Edit: Oh, yea, I almost forgot. They're cutting the oak trees, which are no good for lumber or furniture, and CHIPPING them!!!! OH, THE HORROR!
Probably fits in with the yuppification thing- local stove shop has a serve-yourself firewood bin in their lot. Fill the cart and take it to your Land Rover (or Escalade) for $50. The high-wheel cart holds much less than the nominal 250 lbs my NT cart does, so a reasonable guess would be 200 lb max.
At 4 lb/$, a cord of hardwood would cost upwards of $1K. Told the store mgr. I could deliver p/u-loads (1/3 cord) for a wee bit more, at 10% or less MC. Reply: that's VT Firewood's thing.
Wow! And I thought the big money was in drugs or Koch Bros. oil. Yuppified firewood is where it's at.
At 4 lb/$, a cord of hardwood would cost upwards of $1K. Told the store mgr. I could deliver p/u-loads (1/3 cord) for a wee bit more, at 10% or less MC. Reply: that's VT Firewood's thing.
Wow! And I thought the big money was in drugs or Koch Bros. oil. Yuppified firewood is where it's at.
As of this year, we are one of the "9 million households that burn wood as a secondary fuel source for heating."
I am in densely populated northern NJ. Even if only naturally fallen trees and trees downed by Tree Services were used as fuel, I feel like that could heat 25% of the homes around here.
I am in densely populated northern NJ. Even if only naturally fallen trees and trees downed by Tree Services were used as fuel, I feel like that could heat 25% of the homes around here.
1project2many
ArboristSite Guru
Wow. I thought NH was bad. We prevent logging within a certain distance of highways so the tourists keep feeling touristy. But that's just plain sneaky.
MrWhoopee
ArboristSite Operative
Yes, here Caltrans owns a 200 ft. wide corridor along the highway. You have to look through the screen to see the reality. Much like the parkways on Long Island.
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
Um, never heard the term "California Emission" before?
Federal standards are LOWER than what California adopted to address it's pollution issues, and for many years it was mandated that no other state (other than California) could adopt regulations more stringent than the Federal rules. That was changed in the 2000s giving states the option of which standard to follow.
As more states, and generally more populated ones representing more of the manufacturer's sales, have adopted the CA Emission standard, the Federal EPA is adopting California's emission standards as the nationwide standard as of the 2016 model year...what after having 40 years of two different standards, in which the Federal standard was lower.
But let's not let facts stand in the way of a good rant.
Wh do you say when they actually replant trees? Doesn't CA have a forest practices act/law requiring full stocking levels in a fixed amount of years? Aren't there buffering requirements for those salmon and trout streams? Do you know what you are talking about? I've seen pictures published of plantations that had 5 foot tall trees, listed as deforested and unstocked, when the pictures were taken in the winter and the reprod was under the snow. Are you basing your info on the Google Earth satellite photos, where the little seedlings would not show up? Or are you going to each unit and doing stocking surveys/plots?
Biomass is one way to deal with the large piles of landing slash. I do mean large--most logging companies are bringing in whole trees to the landing and processing them on the landing. That slash is now on the landing, on a road, and could easily be trucked away to a plant.
Where you live, you ought to be in favor of thinning for fire prevention. Biomass is one way to get rid of that material.
naturelover
Tree Freak
Ought to see what mining coal does to the land.
Some of us have to worry about entire mountains here.....
Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
Some of us have to worry about entire mountains here.....
Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
Your post has some errors. The market for lumber has nothing to do with what is chipped or not. Even in times of a poor lumber market a tree that will make a good saw log is made into lumber. That's where the bucks are. If the lumber market is down logging is postponed or shut down completely. Trees are never chipped just because the lumber market is poor.
The chip market is, at best, a break even proposition and most of the chips are burned in SPI's own co-gen plants to power their own mills. That's a good use of the resource. I've logged in your area quite a bit and most of what I've seen being chipped is pre commercial thinning...small stuff that wouldn't make a decent saw log. Also, after a clearcut, the junk logs will be chipped. But even in a total recession I've never seen decent saw logs being chipped. That doesn't happen.
I also think that you need to get out and walk a lot of ground on timber sales before you start making blanket statements about SPI's stewardship of their property. They do quite a bit more than "token" erosion control. Runoff and stream siltation are major issues in the woods and water turbidity is watched closely. Before SPI begins a logging job a Timber Harvest Plan has to be submitted to the state for approval. This is not a rubber stamp process. An average THP is as thick as a big city phone book and contains all the rules and regulations to be followed on that particular sale. These regulations include erosion control methods, many many many of them, and they're strict about enforcing them. The fines for non-compliance are huge. The regulations are site specific and very detailed.
A lot of people with little or no practical knowledge of logging criticize SPI. That the critics know nothing becomes apparent when they make claims that are in no way based in fact.
SPI is a good steward of their own land. It's in their best interest to be. Some of their land borders some of mine and I've also logged for them. I've seen first hand how they do things. Are they perfect? No. But they come closer to it than any other timber company I've seen.
And the oak trees that you're upset about? Are you upset because you can't cut them? A lot of oak gets chipped but last year there were over five hundred loads of oak logs delivered to a commercial firewood outfit a couple of hours to the south of you.
redheadwoodshed
Freebird
Just got my Northern tools catalog in. It has wood heaters listed in the index, but there ain't none in there.
Reckon why?
Reckon why?
