Moving trees without a tree spade ??

[Ax-man]

Mario,

I doubt those wide straps are made of leather, probaly sewn nylon, leather could not take a lift like that. The wider the strap and the more you have of them around a root ball the better. Thin straps will cut into soft spots in a rootball when the actual lift takes place.

I worked for a landscape company for a short time, back in stone age 70's. I got in on some this big heavy tree moving. The biggest one was a Sugar Maple with an eight foot root ball. We didn't have fancy equipment like what is being shown in these links. We basically excavated the sides, triple wrapped the ball with burlap, drum laced and used plain old ball chains, no big wide straps, just chains with 2x4's or 4x4,s wedged in between the chains and the ball where the soft spots were. We did a pre lift first to see where the most strain was going to be.

The company never hired a crane to do the lifting, they hired a custom built boom tamdem axle winch truck to do the lifting which could only lift up and out of the hole and put the ball on a cradle that was on the bed on the rear of the truck.

Larry

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Thanks for the advice Larry.

I may just go with the wider straps, as they can be used on light or heavy rootballs. That will provide that wider contact that you referred to.

United Rental has a flatbed truck with a boom lift for 15,000 lbs. close in, but I would need a commercial drivers license to rent it. So I may stick to the crane for a while.

I can probably safely put a 2 ton ball on my flatbed trailer with my truck, but I'll need a machine to get it out unless I can devise some kind of tripod and lever system.

A google seach with the images tabl produced this image link...

http://www.sandiegohistory.org/collections/stineman/images/91-18564-2768.jpg

It's a horse drawn large tree move. The initial part of the URL seems to indicate a San Diego history photo

 

[trees4est]

Are those - directional borers - like the units that the cable companies use to bore for large conduit?

What trades use pipe pushers?

Can these be rented?

I don't know about renting those, but yes, many utility contractors use them, putting conduit and pipe under roads, sidewalks, whatever. If an underground line absolutely has to go near a tree, actually the best way is to go straight under the tree, down a few feet and you'll hit practically nothing. But usually they charge by the foot, sometimes different prices for different diameters. I suppose it's possible to find one for rent from a bigger equipment rental firm, I haven't tried. I don't know how hard they are to use.

 

[okietreedude1]

I realize this thread is over a yr old now, but thought Id put in an update:

Thanks TreeMachine for the brilliant idea. Id seen the video when you first posted it and remembered about it enought to dig it up for a refresher course.

I transplanted a tree today using the treemachine method w/ a twist. Instead of using fence boards, I used 36" grading stakes (used to form concrete). Also instead of the log cradle, I substituted a 600tx skidder.

I think I was pretty fortunate the tree was probably only planted no more than 2 yrs ago.

The TM method worked brilliantly!

Sorry I dont have any video or pics.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

So where are you with this Mario? I'd put in my $.02 if it were worth the time.

 

[ATH]

I wasn't here when this thread first started...but I'll throw in one thing I have heard (but not tired):
I went to an Air Knife training thing a couple of years ago. The guy doing that training said he had moved trees 40"+/- dbh trees by blowing the soil off the roots (and vacuuming it into his chip truck) and lifting the "naked" tree with a relatively light duty crane.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

So where are you with this Mario? I'd put in my $.02 if it were worth the time.

Geez Paul...

I aint got two cents left !!

This thread came out of nowhere today. Noticed in on my stats page. I opened with a question.

Anyway, I'm fairly primitive in my methods. If it can't be hand dug and moved with a few men or a small machine, I pass it on to Big Trees Today of Oregon.

But I have my technique and madness - "so easy a Caveman can do it".

Here's my Caveman explanation page.....and the small video link you'll see down the page show my primitive style. With a few workers and doubling the tarps, its smooth as silk for an on-site move with a tree up to 3 times the size of the pine I slipped out....

http://www.mdvaden.com/transplanting.shtml

I love this method, because two shovels and the tarps are remarkably compact. I can ball-up the tree with them too, for a same day move.

The other ideas are good too. Probably whatever equipment that someone can drag to the site is fine. The way I seen it, if the roots can be cut and not banged to death with blunt edges, and the rootball not get shattered, then the tree should do well.

I'm a suburb service, and many trees - small - are near homes to start with. Little room to extend pipe, boards and gadgets. The amount of area around the average tree dealth with, would seem to frame-in the tools someone needs.

 

[xander9727]

Has anyone on here ever tried using an airspade/airknife to clean the dirt off of the roots and move a tree with a bare root system? If so, what was your experience? How well did the tree tolerate the move? What is the largest tree done with this method?
Thanks for you input.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

No response form J.P. yet !!

Thought for sure he'd tell me I'm candidate for the next Geico commercial

 

[Tree Machine]

I have zero experience with an airspade but I have a good deal of experience with roots.

Water and nutrients are not pulled into the 'roots' but rather the root hairs. These are fine and tiny and rather delicate. The whole key to successfully transplanting any plant is to preserve the integrity of the root system. The larger the tree, the more critical this is.

Saplings can be moved about bare root, but only as long as those bare roots are kept from drying out. Little trees transpire little moisture. In larger stock there is a greater amount of transpiration going on and a larger root mass and a LOT more root hairs pulling in water and nutrients for that larger crown.

There is a reason we go to the trouble of keeping the soil intact on trees larger than a pencil in diameter, and that is to keep the root hairs on the roots. It would be so much easier to blast the soil with high-pressure air and take the trees 'naked' , but my senses tell me the success rate would drop.

First, the abrasion and violent disturbance caused by compressed air- think about, would you shoot a jet of compressed air at your eyeball? No. You'd put your eye out. Tiny, drelicate root hairs would have no chance having the soil ripped off of them.

Second, once bare roots are exposed they are open to the air they are apt to dry out. This is a problem even in potted trees, especially Bonsai. The soil drys out, the root hairs die. You can water and water, but if the tree can't pull water into the roots themselves, transpiration comes to a grinding halt, leaves wither and die in direct response and you have a tree with little chance of recovery. There is only so much stored water in a tree. It depends on a consistent supply from the soil.

I can see the air spade being used in place of a conventional shovel to remove soil outside the dripline, that might work OK, but to remove the soil from the roots as part of the transplant, you're messin with Mother Nature. Even if you went to great lengths to keep the roots moist after the extraction, it doesn't matter. The root hairs are at the foundation of transpiration. The more damaged or destroyed they are, the more it will affect the success of the transplant. This ain't me talkin. This is just basic biology.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've only heard of one air-tool excavation for transplant, and I think it failed. It's been a long time. I tink desication is a big problem as TM (Jim? Cant remember, been too long) assumed.

I would like to try it some day, I would use the Cornel bare root method of dormant transplant dipped in hydrogel. Last I read they had good results with it, but had no data as to if the hydrogel helped or it was another part of the process.

I like the low N fert recomendations, but it looks like the root ball on Mario's vidio is a little small, I like a 1':1" ratio stem to ball. Sharp shovel is key, I allways use a flat file (bastard-mill) before I stick one in the dirt.

As for a crane move, if you get a deep frost there then digging prior to the freeze and watering the ball down so that it will "frost ball", undermining with pipes driven with a pneumatic hammer, and a loose wrap with tarps.

Once you get a good freeze, cover with straw to prevent any thaw from sun. Then move in and move along. I've seen slings on the pipes, and slings on the trunk base and both.

As for the trunk bolt, I've heard this called the "Disney Method" they use it for helo-lift moves. Since they concider trees props for the set, they are allways looking for trees to replace ones that are loosing their appeal. I understand they can get a big tree replaced in a matter of hours.

 

[ATH]

Tree Machine,
Those little tiny roots actually don't do too bad having the soil blown off of them. As I said, I have never moved a tree with my Air Knife, but I have seen plenty of roots left intact when it is used correctly.

Of course, this would be a dormant season move so transpiration would be very low. That also means that the tree is ready to put out a new crop of root hairs next spring. Keeping the roots moist isn't that big of a deal (sprinkler).

Sure, it is going to stress the tree, but so is leaving 1/2 or more of the roots behind when you dig a "conventional" root ball...

If anybody is interested in more on this, I can try to track down the guy who told me about his personal experience moving 40" diameter trees.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I like the low N fert recomendations, but it looks like the root ball on Mario's vidio is a little small, I like a 1':1" ratio stem to ball. Sharp shovel is key, I allways use a flat file (bastard-mill) before I stick one in the dirt.

You are right. No glasses for JP

I was on my own that day way the heck over in Ashland, and was offered two pines for free. The only way I could get them loaded alone was to shave the ball a bit smaller. But the soil was perfect to dig in, and my camera was with.

Geez... the second pine, not shown, twice the size, was at my limits to load and move (alone).

The trees are doing great though. Definitely included stakes.

 

[Tree Machine]

Thanks TreeMachine

I transplanted a tree today using the treemachine method w/ a twist. Instead of using fence boards, I used 36" grading stakes (used to form concrete). Also instead of the log cradle, I substituted a 600tx skidder.

The TM method worked brilliantly!

Most excellent, sir!



Hey Mario, do you have a link for that 15 minute long two-man transplant system?



OkieTreeDude, this video is for you, who improved on the TM method, this 15 minute video will impress you further. It's a tree transplanting system that is rather basic and very, very ingenius. For you who have never transplanted a tree, you will learn and understand how to transplant a tree. For Okie, the next one may be swifter.


Thanks, Mario.

 

[woodchux]

The directional boring/tunneling machine mentioned can be rented at most rental stores. It is called a "hole hawg".

 

[M.D. Vaden]

The directional boring/tunneling machine mentioned can be rented at most rental stores. It is called a "hole hawg".

Too bad we can't rent that drum beat guy from the ship in the Ben Hur movie.

For some reason, the ramming of pipes into the holes reminds me of the steady beat that guy pounds out as they advance from "attack speed" to "ramming speed".