MS 250 can't pull

[Pioneer]

Just took my 250 off the shelf where it sat since I last started it up 3 weeks ago. About 10c in the basement, ran out of firewood for the stove down there. 4 pulls on choke, a good solid hit, 2 more on high idle, away she goes. I built this saw from scrap with cheap AM parts and it has been dead reliable so far.
Another one I built that came to me in the same kind of condition was just as reliable after the rebuild, but it would not always pop to let you know it was ready to go. You had to make sure you turned the choke off after the fourth pull or else you would flood it, but it always ran if you followed that drill.

When the saws were new they were pretty hard to pull over, once they broke in, not so bad. You do have to pull the saws over with some authority and speed. They have a really small starter pulley for their displacement, which is probably the majority of the problem.

 

[Oletrapper]

I have watched many times where a person attempting to start a saw cannot do so. The 3 most common things I have seen was, inexperience, too timid and not strong enough, either from age, physical limitations or injury and technique. Each time I have asked to have the saw and with a couple of pulls had it running. I am a drop starter, only way I know how, been doing it since I was around 12 - 13 years old but I don`t expect others to do so. The ones observing me say that is not safe , but it does get the saw started every time if the saw will start at all. The speed the flywheel spins over really has ability to create a strong spark.

I totally agree. I'm a drop starter also. OT

 

[Okie]

I have watched many times where a person attempting to start a saw cannot do so. The 3 most common things I have seen was, inexperience, too timid and not strong enough, either from age, physical limitations or injury and technique. Each time I have asked to have the saw and with a couple of pulls had it running. I am a drop starter, only way I know how, been doing it since I was around 12 - 13 years old but I don`t expect others to do so. The ones observing me say that is not safe , but it does get the saw started every time if the saw will start at all. The speed the flywheel spins over really has ability to create a strong spark.

Well said.
I've seen some guys that could not start manual pull rope equipment, for example, the old Wisconsin engines and the old style 8 hp Yazoo push mowers the type with the double belt pulleys, especially if they had to wrap the rope around the flywheel pulley manually for rope start. They would sometimes come get me to start the 8 hp and they found out really fast to not stand behind me as I was pulling the rope after the pull rope whacked them across the face.
I acted like it was an accident.
Sometimes people just needs a wake up call so as pay attention to what's happening or what's going to happen)

 

[pioneerguy600]

I totally agree. I'm a drop starter also. OT

I started out drop starting the 600 series Pioneers back in the 60`s, and have never looked back, use the momentum and weight of the saw to help spin them over. I have a modified 066 that will stop my pull through dead, it has snapped off 4 pull cords, three of them the Elastostart handles.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

I started out drop starting the 600 series Pioneers back in the 60`s, and have never looked back, use the momentum and weight of the saw to help spin them over. I have a modified 066 that will stop my pull through dead, it has snapped off 4 pull cords, three of them the Elastostart handles.

Yep, that's why I like the de-comp on saws..

 

[Okie]

Subject: MS250 hard pull

Note the guy cranking the MS250 saw in this link (correction MS260)
Main point is he puts some pull into it when he is cranking. He is not bashful and timid.
Here is how to get mean with a MS250 when trying to start. Watch where he runs the saw out of gas, lets it cool down and adds 25:1 mix at about 9 in the video

He is showing the temp changes with oil mixes.
I also do a IR test of my saws monitoring the JUG temp in a cut especially if I have been doing carb adjustments to the saw. If I see the JUG TEMP heading towards 350F fast when loaded up in a full bar cut the saw block/piston is getting too hot and headed for self destruct. Most generally the carb is adjusted too lean.

https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...-07&utm_content=daily_newsletter#post-7717624

 

[sundance]

Subject: MS250 hard pull

Note the guy cranking the MS250 saw in this link
Here is how to get mean with a MS250 when trying to start. Watch where he runs the saw out of gas, lets it cool down and adds 25:1 mix at about 9 in the video

He is showing the temp changes with oil mixes.
I also do a IR test of my saws monitoring the JUG temp in a cut especially if I have been doing carb adjustments to the saw. If I see the JUG TEMP heading towards 350F fast when loaded up in a full bar cut the saw block/piston is getting too hot and headed for self destruct. Most generally the carb is adjusted too lean.

https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...-07&utm_content=daily_newsletter#post-7717624

The saw in the video is an MS260 not an MS250.

 

[Old2stroke]

I started out drop starting the 600 series Pioneers back in the 60`s, and have never looked back, use the momentum and weight of the saw to help spin them over. I have a modified 066 that will stop my pull through dead, it has snapped off 4 pull cords, three of them the Elastostart handles.

Weight of the saw that gives it inertia when drop starting is SO important. When a saw gets ugly and stops dropping when the recoil hits compression, I have a 10 pound weight that I add to the saw, helps a lot.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Weight of the saw that gives it inertia when drop starting is SO important. When a saw gets ugly and stops dropping when the recoil hits compression, I have a 10 pound weight that I add to the saw, helps a lot.

I could easily remedy the 066 in my post by changing the timing back closer to original and put an original OEM module in it but that would take a lot of the , zing , out of it and those around me are scared to death of it , won`t touch it the way it is so I just leave it, been that way for close to 10 years.

 

[Oletrapper]

Weight of the saw that gives it inertia when drop starting is SO important. When a saw gets ugly and stops dropping when the recoil hits compression, I have a 10 pound weight that I add to the saw, helps a lot.

Sure would love to see that 10lb weight though. lmao OT

 

[Oletrapper]

The saw in the video is an MS260 not an MS250.

Give or take 10. lol Kinda like comparing a 283 chevy block to a 350. Only difference is the size of the pistons. lmao Just saying. OT

 

[Old2stroke]

I could easily remedy the 066 in my post by changing the timing back closer to original and put an original OEM module in it but that would take a lot of the , zing , out of it and those around me are scared to death of it , won`t touch it the way it is so I just leave it, been that way for close to 10 years.

Lot to be said for having equipment that others won't have anything to do with. Years ago I got a nearly new mustang that a guy had to sell because it scared the crap out of his wife and she wouldn't drive it.

 

[Okie]

Weight of the saw that gives it inertia when drop starting is SO important. When a saw gets ugly and stops dropping when the recoil hits compression, I have a 10 pound weight that I add to the saw, helps a lot.

I have some of the old heavy 10 lbs and up Mac saws that I maybe can use as weights to tie to the bottom of the hard crankers for additional weight when drop starting.

I only MAINLY use them old heavy Macs on logs that are already down and I can just let the saws weight do the cutting and can just hold the saw with one hand and drink water or coffee while it's cutting.

 

[torch]

Subject: MS250 hard pull

Note the guy cranking the MS250 saw in this link (correction MS260)
Main point is he puts some pull into it when he is cranking. He is not bashful and timid.
Here is how to get mean with a MS250 when trying to start. Watch where he runs the saw out of gas, lets it cool down and adds 25:1 mix at about 9 in the video

What link? I can't seem to find it.

 

[sundance]

What link? I can't seem to find it.

It's buried a ways into the thread below.

https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...-07&utm_content=daily_newsletter#post-7717624

 

[Okie]

It's buried a ways into the thread below.

https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...-07&utm_content=daily_newsletter#post-7717624

look at post #6 in the link [posted.
It's a MS260 instead of a MS250 but the point is in the video note that this is how to get mean/tough and start a chainsaw.

 

[TreedFella]

Buy a GOOD battery saw and you will never look back. I own a couple of MS250s, good little saws but they can be miserable to start. I have a Jred 60cc saw with the decomp plugged and I think it is easier to pull.
FWIW, I am 73 and I have both a Stihl MSA220 and a Husky 540i battery saws. I use these saws more and more when I’m doing saw work where I would have used a 45-50cc gas saw before. The down side is the above saws are expensive, I would look at some of the other brands before buying.

Other downsides are that batteries dont run when it's too hot out or too cold, they do wear out. Hopefully we get some improved battery tech that's less susceptible to temperature

 

[Santa Jim]

Thanks all for the input. I would love to buy a Stihl MSA220 but after several heart and other emergency surgeries, money is tight.

As for starting the MS250, I never had a problem starting it until my guy changed the carb settings and never got it running more than 10 sec since. I always drop started it so strength was not much of an issue.i

The issue is that I can turn the flywheel by hand 360 degrees but when I put the recoil on, I can pull the cord 2" and engine locks up unless I hold it and pull with all my strength, then it moves 2" and locks up again. Locks up like compression stroke has cylinder full of water and cannot compress. I even put the old flywheel on and same issue. Thinking next to try new starter? Will EZstart starter, flywheel, and ignitor help but not be as perfect as 251CE or not work at all?? Still dumbfounded as why this is happening. Stihl Tech support has NO answer at all....said they never heard of this and escalated up levels even to Mgr....never heard this, no hint or answer.

 

[ValleyForge]

I too have an MS250 that has been difficult, make that very difficult, to pull (and not flood) from the day I purchased it. I've taken it to two different Stihl shops. Both shops were able to start the saw. Both repairman had arms bigger than my thighs. One told me I need to eat more Wheaties. I am a senior and have a bad right shoulder but do not have any problem starting any of my other 9 saws the biggest two being an 056AV and a MS650. I've done a lot of research on the MS250 and it seems like 50% of the owners love them and the other 50% hate them. I'm in the later category.

Did he give you the stihl part number for Wheatles? Lol

 

[sundance]

Thanks all for the input. I would love to buy a Stihl MSA220 but after several heart and other emergency surgeries, money is tight.

As for starting the MS250, I never had a problem starting it until my guy changed the carb settings and never got it running more than 10 sec since. I always drop started it so strength was not much of an issue.i

The issue is that I can turn the flywheel by hand 360 degrees but when I put the recoil on, I can pull the cord 2" and engine locks up unless I hold it and pull with all my strength, then it moves 2" and locks up again. Locks up like compression stroke has cylinder full of water and cannot compress. I even put the old flywheel on and same issue. Thinking next to try new starter? Will EZstart starter, flywheel, and ignitor help but not be as perfect as 251CE or not work at all?? Still dumbfounded as why this is happening. Stihl Tech support has NO answer at all....said they never heard of this and escalated up levels even to Mgr....never heard this, no hint or answer.

I put an aftermarket recoil on mine (~$13) with the same issue. Seems to have helped a lot.