MS170 won't run at all - to fix or upgrade?

[o8f150]

1st mistake,,, loaning your saw out to a friend,, always keep a loaner saw handy,,,,, not a thing with the 170 for smaller stuff,, heres the one i have and love it

 

[Heath475]

Thanks guys - amazing response. Appreciate everyone putting the time in to provide advice. I will try to respond to as much of it as possible.
1. I have checked spark (had spark with old plug too but replaced with a new one just to be sure and still have strong spark).
2. New fuel mix (also tried a squirt of start ya bastard and that didn't do anything either).
3. Piston is scored - because it is such a small piston was a bit hard to see on first glance but it's pretty bad (refer photo). I would like to make sure this doesn't happen to the new saw - fuel mix likely cause?
4. There was a LOT of oil and oily clumps of wood chips under the plastic chain cover - not sure what would have caused this or if relevant.
5. Also lots of oil on chain brake drum.
6. I haven't taken out the muffler screen yet (but looks clear when I look through from the outside) or taken the clutch out. Not sure it is worth it if the piston/saw is stuffed.

On to the next step - new saw - so many options. I did like the compact nature of the MS170 and felt like it was very easy to control and safe - not sure how the bigger saws will feel in this respect.

I am happy to spend a bit of extra money and get out of the homeowner series (keeping in mind the Stihl did last for 4 years of minimal use - cut down about 10 trees in that time, and gardener cut down probably 15 trees before the saw died although I'm disappointed it didn't last longer, on reflection maybe it went OK for what I paid for it, and the work it did). We only have a 1 acre block but always a lot of cleanup work to do and I will keep the better hardwood to cut for firewood in the future.

Australian prices for saws are as follows:

Stihl
MS 211 C-BE with Picco Duro 3 $799
MS 231 C-BE with Rapid Duro 3 $979
MS 241 CM $1359

Echo
CS 353ES $499
CS 370ES $599
CS 450 $799
CS 550 $899

Shindiawa
352S $599
488P $899

 

[merc_man]

Wow your prices are way higher for saws.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[merc_man]

Lots of scoring. I would part it out and put money towards a new echo.

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[user 122190]

1st mistake,,, loaning your saw out to a friend,, always keep a loaner saw handy,,,,, not a thing with the 170 for smaller stuff,, heres the one i have and love it

Agree. If someone wants to borrow the saw, I just do the cutting for them.

 

[merc_man]

Agree. If someone wants to borrow the saw, I just do the cutting for them.

I agree as well but after a while it feels like your just getting taken advantage of. My neighbor was always asking me to trim then the next one was so i started charging amd that stopped in a hurry[emoji6]

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[murfpcola]

There are a lot more knowledgable guys on here but do you think the gardener used straight gas (no oil) in the saw while he was using it? Looks scored pretty bad for low hours use.

 

[beaglebriar]

I'd take some time and at least pressure and vac test then attempt to clean up the P/C. We can help you through that stuff if you choose to and it's really pretty simple. If the cylinder is damaged too much then maybe write it off.

 

[o8f150]

yep,, piston is toasted,,,, i will check on the shipping costs but i have 2 almost complete engines out in the shop,,, i know both have good cylinders and pistons,,,,,,

 

[o8f150]

Thanks guys - amazing response. Appreciate everyone putting the time in to provide advice. I will try to respond to as much of it as possible.
1. I have checked spark (had spark with old plug too but replaced with a new one just to be sure and still have strong spark).
2. New fuel mix (also tried a squirt of start ya bastard and that didn't do anything either).
3. Piston is scored - because it is such a small piston was a bit hard to see on first glance but it's pretty bad (refer photo). I would like to make sure this doesn't happen to the new saw - fuel mix likely cause?
4. There was a LOT of oil and oily clumps of wood chips under the plastic chain cover - not sure what would have caused this or if relevant.
5. Also lots of oil on chain brake drum.
6. I haven't taken out the muffler screen yet (but looks clear when I look through from the outside) or taken the clutch out. Not sure it is worth it if the piston/saw is stuffed.

On to the next step - new saw - so many options. I did like the compact nature of the MS170 and felt like it was very easy to control and safe - not sure how the bigger saws will feel in this respect.

I am happy to spend a bit of extra money and get out of the homeowner series (keeping in mind the Stihl did last for 4 years of minimal use - cut down about 10 trees in that time, and gardener cut down probably 15 trees before the saw died although I'm disappointed it didn't last longer, on reflection maybe it went OK for what I paid for it, and the work it did). We only have a 1 acre block but always a lot of cleanup work to do and I will keep the better hardwood to cut for firewood in the future.

Australian prices for saws are as follows:

Stihl
MS 211 C-BE with Picco Duro 3 $799
MS 231 C-BE with Rapid Duro 3 $979
MS 241 CM $1359

Echo
CS 353ES $499
CS 370ES $599
CS 450 $799
CS 550 $899

Shindiawa
352S $599
488P $899

see what an echo cs310 runs for,, they are easy to mod and trim limiters on carb,, i like them a lot,, light weight and good cutting and same cc as the 170

 

[Mattyo]

I'm betting straight gas...and if that's the case....why would anyone talk of switching brands...that's stupid. Not knocking echo....just why label something as junk when likely straight gas was the culprit...ie operator error not junk brand.

 

[o8f150]

I'm betting straight gas...and if that's the case....why would anyone talk of switching brands...that's stupid. Not knocking echo....just why label something as junk when likely straight gas was the culprit...ie operator error not junk brand.

the echo has a fully adjustable carb on it already just have to trim limiters,, the 170 comes with a sealed carb so then another 30 bucks for the wt215 carb to make it fully adjustable

 

[Mattyo]

Again...not knocking the echo....just silly to blame brand when it was operator error. ....for the record....I'm a Husky guy

 

[o8f150]

Again...not knocking the echo....just silly to blame brand when it was operator error. ....for the record....I'm a Husky guy

you need to reread what i posted,,, the 170 IS COMPLETELY sealed the you have to spend at least 30 bucks for a wt215 carb to make it adjustable,,,, sure run a sealed carb and looked what happened,, he smoked the piston,, with the echo it already comes with an adjustable carb,, ggeeeezzzz thats easy to figure out

 

[Mattyo]

I prefer adjustable carbs too...but you can't adjust out straight gas.

 

[fearofpavement]

A scored piston is not the result of a low quality saw. It is caused by running the saw on a lean tune, running an inappropriate fuel mix or overheating the saw. Whether the saw has been run one hour or a thousand it makes no difference what brand it is or how much it costs. This kind of damage is seen on all models of saws and is caused by the same factors.

Before abandoning ship, check out what a new aftermarket piston/cylinder kit would run. To USA it's cheap but not sure about where you're at. For some elbow grease and not too much cash, you may be able to breathe life back into it.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

You can buy a complete engine for it on ebay for around $30 US. I don't know what it is for anyone else. Some of us on AS wouldn't think twice about changing engines but to a newby it might be hard.

 

[Heath475]

Thanks again guys. Yep again happy to acknowledge likelihood of operator error (although not mine).

I didn't lend the saw to a friend, but to a labourer I had come and help clean the garden up in the lead up to Christmas - I had planned to be there to manage the process but got called away for work and left the guy to his own devices. That being said the bloke worked like a pack horse and cleaned the yard up nicely albeit left me with a non-working chainsaw. I run my own business that requires a lot of travel, as well as an engineering office, in the middle of home renovations and have a baby on the way - I have finally admitted I may have taken on board more than I do myself and have started paying for some help. Unfortunately the help I have received so far has created a long list of additional jobs that were not on my list previously (including rebuild or replacement of chainsaw).

I have arranged for the guy doing the stump grinding for me to cut down the remaining trees which takes some of the urgency out of buying a replacement saw in the next few weeks. The upcoming Stihl price hike here (a significant one at that) also put the pressure on to work out if I had to replace or not quickly. Although I would like a new saw I am going to do as suggested and look for a replacement cylinder/piston and when I have a spare hour or so will tackle a rebuild - I have rebuilt motorbike engines before, and the odd lawnmower so this shouldn't be too different to that. It is just a matter of finding the time (and patience) to put towards it. Then I still have the option of selling the MS 170 and upgrading to a bigger saw (the price increase will hopefully make resale of the MS 170 easier).

I suspected the guy who used the saw may have put bar oil in the gas tank - would this have caused significant damage or would it have lubricated the chamber enough to be OK, wasn't much fuel left in it when I tipped it out to replace? Otherwise straight petrol with no oil may have occurred - difficult to tell now as I tipped the fuel out to replace with fresh fuel without really thinking about a more serious problem when I couldn't get it to fire.

Now that I mention it, is very weird that he said he couldn't restart he saw once it got hot and he turned it off to refuel. That would mean a full tank if fuel was replaced when hot and then couldn't start. Ahh well it is done now.

o8f150 - if you have a spare cylinder/piston that you would be happy to ship please let me know costs - unfortunately the Australian dollar is very low at the moment and makes all of these things a lot more expensive from this end. Before I tackle ordering new parts for a rebuild it would be beneficial to strip it all down and take photos to make sure there aren't any additional problems that will remain with a simple barrel and piston swap.

Any thoughts on how long the rebuild would take? I have rebuilt engines before but don't do it every week so probably would take me twice as long (at least) as someone with experience with these exact motors.

Thanks again - this is a great forum.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

On the 170 you have to practically tear the whole saw down then remove the engine, take the bottom cap off the engine and pull the piston, rod and crank out of the cylinder. Then take the piston off the assembly, put the new piston on it and put it in the new cylinder using a bit of 2 stroke oil and put the cap back on using Motoseal or something like that. If you look on this site there are plenty of illustrations on how to do this, it is very similar to an MS290 rebuild. Probably the hardest part of this is putting the top plastic cover back on, I use a little spray silicone or soap on the rubber buffers to slide them in more easily. For a first timer it might take more than one or two hours, after that it's a quicker job.

 

[Bearcat22lr]

I rebuilt a "junk" homeowner saw, a poulan 4218 I burned up. I had no previous experience... took me a weekend, I took my time. Internet info, exploded diagram and such wasn't that bad. saw is running great. recently got a old poulan 3400 going carb rebuild and fuel lines, wasn't that hard. lots of help from guys here (search "poulan 3400 help" example how awesome this forum is) and internet searches makes projects like these very do able.

Even if it cost a bit for parts the experience is invaluable and the knowledge may save you big money down the road on something else.