MS180 Adjustable Carb

[Lakeside53]

Now you made me go look it up!


Accelerator pumps:

MS200/T
MS192/T
MS270/280
MS341/361
MS441


All current USA saws except the 210/230/250 use intelli-carbs.

Yes. The trend is towards leaner idling saws that will need an accelerator pump... great...


I forgot the above had accelerator pumps as apart from the ZAMA carb on the 200T, they NEVER give any problems.

 

[PES+]

Told yah......argument

No arguement can be made... Very very few Stihl Intelli-carbs use any form of accelerator pump... I'm hard pressed to name more than the 200T and 200 (saws)


The question - usually - you get a lag in acceleration, and as it it gets worse, it just won't accelerate. Often, it''s intermittent.. . And... sometimes you get what seems like a failing seal - revs up and quits.

Appears you have never dealt with a dry accelerator pump Andy.

A dead dry pump acts exactly the same way as Brad described his problem was.

If you reason out how the intellicarb works and it's function you will see my statement holds true.

The intellicarb arraignment cannot work in a standard 2 circuit carburetor without additional help.

There are also quasi three circuit carbs that perform a function similar to an accelerator pump.

 

[Lakeside53]

Sorry... Intell-carb came out way before any accelerator pumps...

All the Stihl saws in production other than those I listed have intelli carbs and no accelerator pumps. Examples - 260, 290/310/390, 440, 460, 660 etc.. and during the transition to intelli, the only change on the carb was to swap out the end cover. Stihl even supplied both covers (still do in some cases) when you buy a replacement carb.


Brads removing the intelli metering cover had nothing to do with his problem... unless it wasn't bolted down - it just changes the sense pressure point, and if it was running without his airfiler it the same as not having it installed.

Dry pumps? LOLOL I replace maybe 3-5 new pump type carb a month - bone dry from the box... No issues, ever.

 

[lectrocrew]

Just do it!
[*]Remove the brass plug from the impulse passage on the rear face of the WT215.
]

I want to make sure I'm about to mutulate the correct plug. Is it the one circled in red in this picture?
Also, is that plug on the same circuit as the hole circled in yellow? I hope so because I don't see a place on my intake to mate with that hole.
I cranked mine this morning but it's WAY lean at idle and stumbles bad on acceleration. WOT is not adjusting correctly either. It actually idles somewhat smooth, = lean also.
I assume me not plugging that brass plug is creating a major vaccumn leak, correct?
All the pictures I took of mine are here. My cover has what I assume is the area machined for the intellicarb hook-up, but the passage goes nowhere as you can see in this picture. That area actually had a foam filter in front of it from the factory, but there is absolutely no orfice of any kind for air to pass through it. Why did Stihl do this? Go figure.

 

[blsnelling]

Pull the brass plug circled in red and block off the hole circled in yellow. Without pulling that plug you have no impulse signal. I'm not sure how it ran for you at all. Make sure you block that Intellicarb port in the housing though. It actually enters the clean side of the filter through that little slit. If you don't, you'll end up with garbage in your engine.

 

[lectrocrew]

Pull the brass plug circled in red and block off the hole circled in yellow. Without pulling that plug you have no impulse signal. I'm not sure how it ran for you at all.

Done. I'll wait till tommorrow to let the JB Weld cure then try it again. Then when it runs good I'll be ready to try and follow you on the port job.

Make sure you block that Intellicarb port in the housing though. It actually enters the clean side of the filter through that little slit. If you don't, you'll end up with garbage in your engine.

I'm trying to understand what to block for the intellicarb port. I looked at the 018 IPL and it shows 2 different carbs. 1 with the intellicarb hook up and 1 without. My saw had the carb without it and the port in the housing was never machined. The hole goes nowhere and will hold fluid, (well, aftershave lotion anyway. I couldn't find any alcohol. ) shown in this picture.
More pictures
Am I still lost?

Thanks for your help Brad!!!

 

[blsnelling]

You're welcome. That's weird on the blind hole. I'll double check mine again.

 

[pgg]

Well, here's a non-intelli carb on a 200T, the only difference I see is the top lid, I just plugged the hole that connects the fancy intelli lid to the internal airbox. Runs sweet. Actually it ran sweet with the hole unplugged too, but the dust'll get into the airbox if not plugged.

intelligent carbs - be afraid, be very afraid! Rise of the machines, judgment day and all that, Arnies' retired, who's gonna protect us now?!

 

[lectrocrew]

Yep, mine had the dimwit lid. Hey wait, does that mean... never mind.

 

[PES+]

Yawn

Andy is right Brad.

What I told you does not work.....throw it all away.

The metering diaphram does not care that it get a negative pressure pulse at exactly the time that you open the throttle which is stronger than the venturi vacuum signal hence the bog and stumble that you suffered.

That was obviously wrong because Andy says so it was all an illusion.

It is the damned EPA....Stihl and Andy are above the laws of physics.

New science.

I am sorry that it appeared that I gave you a solution Brad.

I will refrain from talking sense in the future

 

[blsnelling]

All I know is that L adjustment went from 1 3/4 to 1 1/4 and all I did was remove the Intellicarb cover. That was plenty to let the idle speed be properly adjusted once again.

 

[PES+]

There are ways to make things work most times Brad with an understanding of how the individual components work.

Take a little time browsing the Zama and Walbro tech pages from the resources thread and you will get a basic understanding on how the diaphram carbs operate.

All of the itellicarb units have some form of compensation because of the pulse that you were dealing with.

If a carb is made to use the intellicarb set up you can go back to atmoshperic reference on the metering chamber dry side and it has little effect just some extra fuel in transition.
That is the reason there were carbs available with both covers they have some form of compensation which acts as an accelerator pump whatever people wish to label it.

If a carb is made for atmoshperic reference or closed dry side metering diaphram chamber you will have the problems you encountered.

Accelerator pumps and/or other means to provide the same function are primarily used to run a larger carburetor on a given engine than you would be able to using even a three circuit carburetor and still have reasonable idling and acceleration.


I like my new bait.......it still lands the big one.

 

[Lakeside53]

Andy is right Brad.

What I told you does not work.....throw it all away.

The metering diaphram does not care that it get a negative pressure pulse at exactly the time that you open the throttle which is stronger than the venturi vacuum signal hence the bog and stumble that you suffered.

That was obviously wrong because Andy says so it was all an illusion.

It is the damned EPA....Stihl and Andy are above the laws of physics.

New science.

I am sorry that it appeared that I gave you a solution Brad.

I will refrain from talking sense in the future

:monkey:

you're full of it.... show me the accelarator pump on any 2000/2001 Stihl Intel carb... or any of the later versions I listed without them. Your malking up "non-science" to cover your wacky theories.

 

[blsnelling]

Can't we all just get along. Let's try to keep this thread clean so that the information to be found here doesn't get lost in the fray. I appreciate everyones input. If it works, it works. If it don't, that's OK too. Just looking for a solution.

 

[Lakeside53]

All I know is that L adjustment went from 1 3/4 to 1 1/4 and all I did was remove the Intellicarb cover. That was plenty to let the idle speed be properly adjusted once again.

Just coincidence.... the intel without an airfilter is the same as a non-intel... I suspect you had an airleak in the carb.

 

[blsnelling]

I suspect you had an airleak in the carb.

That's a possibility. I doubt I'll miss the Intellicarb though since I don't let my filters get that dirty.

 

[Lakeside53]

Can't we all just get along. Let's try to keep this thread clean so that the information to be found here doesn't get lost in the fray.

The so-called 'information" is lost in the off-wall theories.,. these things aren't that complicated...

 

[Lakeside53]

That's a possibility. I doubt I'll miss the Intellicarb though since I don't let my filters get that dirty.

Clean filters - yes...

I'm not sure it's all that effective anyhow... but it is a good way to stop the metering cover "atmosheric" vent from being blocked with crap.

 

[lectrocrew]

Clean filters - yes...

I'm not sure it's all that effective anyhow... but it is a good way to stop the metering cover "atmosheric" vent from being blocked with crap.

I never thought of that but it sure makes sense.

You're welcome. That's weird on the blind hole. I'll double check mine again.

What's weirder is that Stihl has a foam filter in front of that hole from the factory on my saw. It looks like maybe part # 1130 141 4300 (packing (49.2000)).

Anyway, I put the WT-215 back on today after the changes and she runs really well at idle, acceleration and WOT. I don't have a tach but I feel a lot more comfortable being able to tune that '4-stroke' effect @ WOT.
Thanks again for your help and expertise Brad. Hopefully I'll get the time to port this little baby soon!

 

[blsnelling]

I'm glad it worked out for you too.