MS250 bar and oiling issues

[sb47]

Saw weight does make a difference in how fast they will cut. My 290 is heavier then my 261 but the 261 is lighter. Both seem to have the same power but I find when using the 290 I can let the weight of the saw put the down pressure and the 261 I have to use the felling dogs to leverage the saw to cut at the same speed as the 290.
My 362 is even heavier then the 290 and the weight of the saw lets it cut faster without having to use the felling dogs to add more pressure.
So I use the 261 for limning where weight of the saw is not as necessary for cutting speed and a lighter saw works better. When I cut logs I use a heavier saw and let the weight of the saw do the work.

 

[ericm979]

The chain never stops? Pile of metal shavings? There is something really wrong here, beyond an oiling problem (though it sure sounds like there's that too).

You should be able to turn the chain by hand. I would not run it until you can.

 

[junkyard]

The chain never stops? Pile of metal shavings? There is something really wrong here, beyond an oiling problem (though it sure sounds like there's that too).

You should be able to turn the chain by hand. I would not run it until you can.

The chain never stops as in the clutch isn't slipping, it stops fine when its at idle.

The shavings are piling up when the chain is moving, I noticed that when the saw was running on white table outside There are fresh fine metal filings that quickly accumulate under the back end of the bar at or around the sprocket area.

I'm guessing that the shavings are coming from the underside of the bar or off the teeth of the sprocket as the chain passes by.

The chain moves freely, I can move it with almost no resistance by hand, I can give it a pull and it rolls nicely around the bar.

If I compare the most run bar to the least used bar there's an 1/16" of difference already in thickness. Its taking a lot of metal off the bar, and some of the drive links as well. The clutch face gets an indented pattern on it pretty fast that matches the chain drive teeth. The new sprocket, which has the exact same markings as the original, (.325), has more 'wear' on where the teeth ride than does the first one.
At this point, I've got three bars, two chains, two sprockets, two sprocket bearings, a new oil pump, new oil pump hose, new oil pump screen, and its still doing the same thing. The saw has less than an hour of run time on it, (likely less than that).
From looking at the thing here in person, what I see is that the oil is not getting into the groove on the bar, only on the outside of the chain and getting flung off.
I opened up the holes a bit where it oils the chain, but it didn't seem to make much difference.

The rear of the clutch is getting soaked with oil, so much so that I can smell it burning on the clutch drum.
With the saw running just over idle, (fast enough to spin the sprocket), there is oil coming out of the oil slot above the bar studs.
Its not gushing out, it just sort of oozes out. If I put my finger over that oil port, the oil stops and I feel no pressure at all.
I cannot believe that I've got two bad bars, or two bad chains, or two bad sprockets, etc. Or two bad oil pumps.
There has to be something else going on here. I also can't believe that a company like Stihl would build something with the oil holes so misaligned.
I can see one odd bar being defective but both bars are marked made in Germany, all parts are oem Stihl.

I would think that the oil coming from the oil port should be under some degree of pressure? I can stop the oil flow with my finger, and it takes a bit for it to restart again after I lift my finger.

The saw is moving oil, in the little bit of cutting I've done, I went through more than a tank of oil. It uses as much or more oil as it does gas but I'm not seeing it when the saw is running on the table. Any oil that slings off the bar is being slung forward off the chain or is running down out of the very rear of the outer cover. Yet the bar groove is bone dry.

 

[bubbajunk]

I think its time to cut your losses and dump the thing?

The only things that come to mind, mainly because your saying that the oil has no 'pressure' as it comes out of the oil hole, maybe there's an issue with the pump aligning with the oil hole on the outlet side?
Those pumps can be installed misaligned and the outlet hole gets blocked or partially blocked. There's a small diagram to the rear of the hole molded right into the housing to show the direction of the pump inlet side, but I've had a few where the pump hole only lined up if when the pump was slighly rotated. I always mark the location of the hole with a sharpy, on both the housing and the pump so I know its aligned when its all the way in. I also blow a little air down after the pump is in place to make sure I get some air out of the oil hole as I rotate the pump by hand. It won't blow straight through 100% but you'll here the air moving through there. Those pumps aren't very strong, but they do move oil pretty well at rpm. I think a certain amount of oil is supposed to get past the drive end of the pump so as to lube the bronze bushing inside the pump worm gear and clutch roller bearing.

It don't take long to spend more on one of those than they cost, a bar and chain can cost 1/4 of what the saw costs new.
When they work, they're not a bad saw but it seems the main complaint about these is lack of oiling and hard starting due to the compression.
Both of mine would all but rip your fingers out out when you tried to start them.
I'm a big guy and the easiest way I found to start those was to sort of drop the saw down with one hand while pulling the recoil handle with the other.
Those and a few Husky models were always the same way.

 

[scottr]

The chain never stops as in the clutch isn't slipping, it stops fine when its at idle.

The shavings are piling up when the chain is moving, I noticed that when the saw was running on white table outside There are fresh fine metal filings that quickly accumulate under the back end of the bar at or around the sprocket area.

I'm guessing that the shavings are coming from the underside of the bar or off the teeth of the sprocket as the chain passes by.

The chain moves freely, I can move it with almost no resistance by hand, I can give it a pull and it rolls nicely around the bar.

If I compare the most run bar to the least used bar there's an 1/16" of difference already in thickness. Its taking a lot of metal off the bar, and some of the drive links as well. The clutch face gets an indented pattern on it pretty fast that matches the chain drive teeth. The new sprocket, which has the exact same markings as the original, (.325), has more 'wear' on where the teeth ride than does the first one.
At this point, I've got three bars, two chains, two sprockets, two sprocket bearings, a new oil pump, new oil pump hose, new oil pump screen, and its still doing the same thing. The saw has less than an hour of run time on it, (likely less than that).
From looking at the thing here in person, what I see is that the oil is not getting into the groove on the bar, only on the outside of the chain and getting flung off.
I opened up the holes a bit where it oils the chain, but it didn't seem to make much difference.

The rear of the clutch is getting soaked with oil, so much so that I can smell it burning on the clutch drum.
With the saw running just over idle, (fast enough to spin the sprocket), there is oil coming out of the oil slot above the bar studs.
Its not gushing out, it just sort of oozes out. If I put my finger over that oil port, the oil stops and I feel no pressure at all.
I cannot believe that I've got two bad bars, or two bad chains, or two bad sprockets, etc. Or two bad oil pumps.
There has to be something else going on here. I also can't believe that a company like Stihl would build something with the oil holes so misaligned.
I can see one odd bar being defective but both bars are marked made in Germany, all parts are oem Stihl.

I would think that the oil coming from the oil port should be under some degree of pressure? I can stop the oil flow with my finger, and it takes a bit for it to restart again after I lift my finger.

The saw is moving oil, in the little bit of cutting I've done, I went through more than a tank of oil. It uses as much or more oil as it does gas but I'm not seeing it when the saw is running on the table. Any oil that slings off the bar is being slung forward off the chain or is running down out of the very rear of the outer cover. Yet the bar groove is bone dry.

Hey junkyard , a few years ago I bought the same bar you have from a discount center that sells used bars to a knife maker for $5 each . I thought it would make a better bar for one of my saws that uses a 16" bar .
My bar has a lubri-dam that is suppose to keep oil forward of the oiler hole .
Try looking down in the bar groove to see if your bar has a raised area aft and forward of the oiler hole .
My bar has about 5" of exposed metal along the rails and the manufacturer heat treated the rails and they have a blue area at the base of the rail .
I don't understand why the bar adjust hole is open to the bar groove but maybe it is designed to also fit another model saw .

 

[junkyard]

The bar doesn't have the little bump in there. I took the whole mess over to a guy who has a shop behind his house, I showed him the three burnt bars, the chains, and the saw. He took the worst of the bars, the one it came with, and ran it through a set of rollers, then a cutter to size the rail, then he ran it on another machine to square the rail. He had a set of templates there to check the bar with, he said the oil hole was in the right place for that model saw but for some reason it just didn't line up. He had two other MS250 saws there, both of those had similar issues but not as bad. One had an 18" bar on it, when he compared that to the template it was different. The hole in the 18" bar was ever so slightly rearward and a bit lower on the bar.
He dug around and found a used Oregon bar he had in a pile under the bench, another 18" bar, and gave that a try with a new chain, and it seems to work fine.
I really didn't want an 18" bar on the saw but so far its the first I've seen it getting oil to the bar groove.
He also said to run motor oil vs. bar oil? He seemed to think the Stihl bar oil was too thick.
The problem I see now is that I've got a saw that's basically still brand new, with less than an hour of run time that has a burnt looking side cover, a cheap used aftermarket bar and chain, and I've got almost as much as what I paid for the saw invested in parts and labor getting it working.
When I bought this I thought I was getting a deal in that the saw was only $130 new in the box at a going out of business sale, in the end I spent as much as I would have if I had gone down to Home Depot and bought a new Echo or Husky saw in the first place, maybe more. I went with the Stihl because of the name, I had no clue that they built stuff like this these days.
With the 16" bar it feels balanced, with the 18" bar not so much. It does run good, it starts fairly easy, but it does pull hard. It feels like its got 200 psi compression. I can't believe the rope don't snap. For that reason and the fact that I really needed a short, easy to handle saw for around the yard I think this is going on CL. I don't suppose I'll get as much for it with the aftermarket bar and chain, the big red Oregon logo makes it obvious the bar don't belong.

 

[David Gruber]

My 1st thought was bar size. My ms 250 came with an 18 inch bar. I know that shouldnt be an issue but sure seems like it.

 

[bubbajunk]

I had one with an 18" bar and one with a 16" bar.
Every time I see them on sale they have the 16" bar.
There was a black Friday ad for a brand new MS250 for $249 and the MS170 for $199 in one of the free papers I looked at.
They come as a bare bones package, no wrench, no case, just a bar and chain in a cardboard box.
The 16" bar 'feels' better in hand on that saw, but its got enough power to pull the 18" no problem.
The biggest thing I saw about the 250 is how bad they cheaped out using plastic. The bar mounts to a plastic, the handles are both all plastic, and the side cover is plastic. I could notice a lot of flex in the motor housing, more so with the longer bar. The only metal was the motor and the bar and chain, everything else was plastic. Its an okay saw for some quick cutting but not so much if your going to spend the day cutting firewood.
The motor was fine, but the rest of the saw around it was so-so at best. I eventually went back to my old Homelite XL.

I'm not sure if any brand out there these days is any better but I feel a lot better knowing that the chain that's flying so fast inches from me is secured by good old metal not some sort of plastic that will no doubt fail one day.

 

[jcallahan]

When running in colder temps I use Stihl Winter Bar oil in my ms250 and other Stihls. It's worked for me but might not work for everyone if other issues are present. I also have a bar groove cleaner tool that scrapes all the gunk that buildups in the bar.

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/winterchainoil/.

Heres a link from another thread on this site about the ms250 bar oiling issue, the last post in thread by pioneerguy600 is where the oil itself is discussed.

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-ms250-chainsaw-not-oiling.185333/

 

[Franny K]

A lot of reading here, the short solution would likely have been modify the oil hole in the bar and plug the unused adjuster hole even if just with a wad of paper towel. The part about how fast shavings fly if the chain and bar are oiled before assembly does not seem right. The part about oil slinging off the end of the bar and the groove bone dry does not seem right. I bought a laminated hard nose bar for that bar mount Oregon 074 if I recall correctly and it had oil holes that needed modified. Perhaps there was some change over time and 3005 Stihl bars changed a bit but kept the same number? The amount of paint missing from the bars pictured also seems not to match genuine Stihl bar paint retention in my experience.

 

[Gypo Logger]

This is a diagnostic nightmare! Either the chain is on backwards or the saw should be parted out on EBay.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Predilection....

John, could you take a picture of that?

 

[Gypo Logger]

Maybe we’ve all been taken and this is just Spacemule being a troll. Lol
Speaking of trolls, where’s Saw Troll been?
And how about Jon1212, where’s he been, I need some bars and a few laughs.

 

[farmer steve]

Maybe we’ve all been taken and this is just Spacemule being a troll. Lol
Speaking of trolls, where’s Saw Troll been?
And how about Jon1212, where’s he been, I need some bars and a few laughs.

Saw Troll stops in and says Hi over in the good morning thread. Jon1212 dropped out of sight after there was a big fundraiser for him over on the other channel.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/o-brother-where-art-thou.337348/#post-7077599

 

[Gypo Logger]

Saw Troll stops in and says Hi over in the good morning thread. Jon1212 dropped out of sight after there was a big fundraiser for him over on the other channel.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/o-brother-where-art-thou.337348/#post-7077599

Lol, check out that link now. Lol

 

[bubbajunk]

As someone who had a pair of these saws I don't understand why anyone should have to redrill an oil hole in a bar that came with the saw. The OP stated from the beginning that the first bar that burned up was the original. It sounds like each bar had the same issue?
When I look up a 16" bar, I get the 3005 bar as the correct part. There's no reason why that bar, with a 325/063 chain shouldn't work on that saw.
Something I have seen is various all plastic saws like that get so hot they melt the bar mount and things get distorted. I parted out and junked an MS170 a few weeks ago that was so heat damaged the bar studs were out of place. I have no idea what got it that hot, either the engine overheated or the bar cooked, no clue. I don't think I found the bar for it.
The engine wasn't seized, and it ran, but the housing was melted badly on the right side. Even the metal inserts in the bar cover were pushed out of the plastic.
Seeing that one pretty much turned me off that style saw. Right now, the only plastic saw I've still got is a pair of 029 Farm Boss' that I bought new in 1996 long before I knew the
difference between the models. My go to saw now is my 020T or my o26, with the 036p close behind.
All of my smaller saws are older Mac and Homelite.

If I had to redrill any holes in a new saw, that thing goes back.
I also thought that all the Stihl bars had the same mounting pattern?

I never liked the oiling system on the MS250 either, I'm not sure its even as good as a gravity feed system.
Neither of my ms250's oiled well, they were ok but not really all that great. I can't say I ever burned up a bar but I rarely used mine for anything other than cutting up kindling or camp fire wood.
But of course, there's no reason why any Stihl saw shouldn't be able to cut a piece of timber, whether it be a 4x4 or 12x12. Its just pine or fir in most cases. Sure the pt chemicals aren't good for anything but it should buzz right through it. I cut railroad ties all the time, and most of them are oak. Even my 40 year old Craftsman electric saw can cut anything that comes from the lumber yard.

In my opinion, the op should dump that saw asap and find something else. Life is too short to deal with problems like that.

 

[junkyard]

I did some digging and searching here and found a number of other similar complaints about the MS250 and oiling issues. It seems I'm far from alone with this problem, here's the first few I found.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/ms250-parts-diagram-bar-not-oiling.200238/
https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...iler-hole-and-bar-dont-line-up-either.331497/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-ms250-oiling-problems.299282/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-ms250-not-oiling.267464/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-ms250-chainsaw-not-oiling.185333/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-ms250-oiling-problem.86904/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-ms250-oiling-question.21023/
There seems to be some talk about a tank vent? It seems to me like if that's clogged or restricted somehow it would limit the oil flow?
The saw seems to work with the Oregon 18" bar, but it don't explain why the OEM 3005 bars won't oil.

I totally agree, I should not have to modify any factory part to make this work as it should. I only wish I had bought this from a current dealer not on a going out of business sale. Besides, it sat unused for a few years before I ever used it.

I doubt its going to be sticking around for long, I'm just not sure its replacement will be a Stihl or not.
Any good new saws out there or do I need to go hunting for something older?
Everything I've seen is all plastic. I did see an Echo on sale for $189 that looked to be about the same size as this Stihl.

 

[pioneerguy600]

The low grade homeowner/occasional use saws are mostly plastic from both Stihl and Husqvarna, Echo and Dolmar saws are a toss up of both. I build the 025 and MS250`s and give them to youngsters for their first saws in my area. With modifications they can be made to run for many long years and hours.

 

[SuperDuty04]

Dunno if this will help you or not. I, too, was having oiling issues with my brand new ms261cm using the Stihl orange bottle of oil. Burnt up a brand new chain because of it. I tried a few things with no luck. Finally, I switched to Husqvarna bar oil and problem solved. My chain is very well oiled now.

 

[AmateurSawer]

I have had a 250 for about a year now.Bought it as a second saw and to use for light work.I've never had any issue with oiling so far and I use the "grey bottle" oil most of the time.Colder temps,I mix some winter blend in or run straight winter blend if it's real cold.
I'm not saying others haven't had problems but that hasn't been my experience.Little saw cuts better than a saw of that type should. About worn down the original chain from sharpening and have put on a new Oregon.Still cuts great.