MS361 - Finding the right chain

[coray]

Hello all.

I just recentely purchased a 361 here in Salt Lake City. I was debating between the 290 and 260 but after reading the posts here I decided to step it up a bit. Couldn't be happier. Just sliced thru an 8 inch aspen in my backyard like butter! And that was with the cheap green chain the dealer sold me.

I will be heading to the High Uintas this weekend to cut 2 days worth of lodge pole pines and aspens. What chain would be the best for this application? Also, I would rather take an extra chain or two rather than break down to sharpen. Based on what chain you guys recommend, how long will it last. We have up to 70 trees to fell.

Sorry for so many questions but you guys have proven to be a great resource so far.

 

[Four Paws]

Welcome!

3/8" full chisel chain will work best on clean standing timber. If your saw has an 18" or 20" bar I would run full comp, full chisel chain. You can pay the ridiculous price Stihl gets for their chain if you feel motivated to buy from your dealer, or go with something a bit less expensive like Oregon, Carlton or Woodsman Pro from site sponsor Bailey's (Carlton chain just sold under a different name). Many here like Woodsman pro chain, including myself.

If your saw has a 24" bar, I would suggest 3/8" full skip, full chisel chain.

Just up I-15 from you. Have fun cutting!

 

[coray]

Thanks

Thanks for the quick reply. As I am still learning about all of these chain types, can you explain what "comp" is? I understand the full chisel just not the comp.

Thanks,

Ben

 

[coray]

Also, what is the easiest way to find those other chain brands locally? Or are they more a mail-order setup?

 

[Four Paws]

'comp' chain is full compliment. It has to do with the cutter arrangement. Full comp chain sequence is as follows = right hand cutter, tie strap, left hand cutter, tie strap, repeat. Full skip is = right hand cutter, tie strap (x2), left hand cutter, tie strap (x2), repeat.

As far as finding Oregon or Carlton chain in your area - just call some shops in town and see what they sell. Be sure to ask for a price per drive link, and also make sure you get the number or style of chain available - so you have a price point comparison. Woodsman Pro is available through Bailey's (click the advertising banner on the top of the page). Stihl chain is good stuff - just spendy, and harder to file than Oregon. I find Carlton chain is a good compromise between Oregon and Stihl chain - I like it a lot!

 

[beelsr]

Since you're going away this weekend, your options are limited...

here's a good primer on chain: http://www.baileys-online.com/how-to-buy-sawchain.htm

you need to be aware of : pitch, gauge and # of drive links. Those 3 MUST match your bar. Read the side of the bar and it will tell you those 3 values. every chain you put on that bar must match. Most likely you have 3/8 pitch, .050 (1.3mm) gauge. the number of drive links depends on the bar length: 18" has 66, 20" has 72 and a 25" (what stihl calls their 24" bar) has 84.

After that, the type of cutter on the chain is what varies. The Bailey's page explains those as well. for the 361, ignore low profile, it's for top-handle, arborist saws. ignore square chisel because hand sharpening that is highly specialized and beyond you (right now). (round) chisel cuts better but dulls quicker from dirt, sand, stone, etc... semi-chisel is inherently round. round v. square means the type of file used to sharpen it - and if you look at the pictures closely, you'll see the cutter is different; square is more efficient than round but even less unforgiving.

full comp is what bailey's calls "standard" on their page. it's "regular" chain and is good on the shorter length bars and on longer length bars when you're cutting smaller wood (and don't have a shorter bar). Skip is good on long bars and big wood because a> less teeth means it needs less power to cut and this makes the saw appear to be more powerful and b> more gap betwen cutters gives a bigger space for ships to "ride" while in the cut (which is why it doesn't matter for small trees - short ride in the cut).

So.... for this weekend you're heading to the saw shop or home depot/lowe's/wal-mart. if you head to the saw shop, ask for a couple loops a round chisel and one of semi-chisel. this will get you through the weekend.

if you head to the store, match up the box with the pitch, gauge, DL count and cutter pattern you want. Oregon chain at Lowe's will fit your 361 just fine - IF and only if pitch, gauge , drive link match - no matter what the box or the droid in the store tells you....

 

[coray]

You guys are awesome. Thanks for the quick posts. You have cleared up a newbie's confusion. Is it worth buying the chain from stihl or should i try the oregon chain at lowes? Is it any cheaper? Will I sacrifce quality for price or is it a wash?

 

[Crofter]

Be prepared to do some filing too. If you have 2 days cutting firewood you will be cutting with dull chains if you dont file, unless you take a lot of spares.

 

[SawTroll]

Be prepared to do some filing too. If you have 2 days cutting firewood you will be cutting with dull chains if you dont file, unless you take a lot of spares.

That is very true, if not you need a whole buch of chain, not just 3 or 4.

Stihl chain keep the edge a bit better than the competition imo, and probably will be you best bet - RSC (chisel) for clean wood, or RM (semi-chisel) for slightly dirty.
RM will cut slower, but will keep the edge a bit longer, if you refuse to file them.

Btw, the "green" chain generally isn't cheaper - just different.

 

[Log Splitter]

coray, there is a difference in Stihl chain. It just holds an edge better, and stretches less, than other chains when new. It does cost a bit more, but the extra cost equals more value (and longer service life) IMO.

If you are planning on cutting clean wood, take Sawtroll's advice and buy a couple of loops of Stihl RSC3 full chisel chain. It will keep the smile on your face while you run the saw.

Dirty wood gets RM semi chisel, I keep a loop around just in case, but rarely use it since most of what I cut is clean.

 

[SawTroll]

... If you are planning on cutting clean wood, take Sawtroll's advice and buy a couple of loops of Stihl RSC3 full chisel chain. It will keep the smile on your face while you run the saw. ...

Sorry, but I definately didn't say RSC3, just RSC.

The RSC3 looks like it is quite similar to the Oregon LP in configutation, but they made both the raker and the ramp too large, so it really isn't.

 

[Log Splitter]

Sorry, but I definately didn't say RSC3, just RSC.

The RSC3 looks like it is quite similar to the Oregon LP in configutation, but they made both the raker and the ramp too large, so it really isn't.

No you didn't SawTroll, sorry for the mistake. Next time I'll reread your post before I start typing.

I recommended RSC3 chain as I was trying to keep him running green chain until he got some experience using a saw.

 

[Lakeside53]

If all you're cutting is lodgepole and aspen, I'd use a full comp chain. Full skip is way to jumpy on the small stuff and you don't need it to maintain rpm in the small softwood wood you'll be cutting. Your arms will thank you at the end of the day.

And I suspect much of your lodgepole is standing dead? If so, definitely use and RM (semi chisel) type.

 

[ShoerFast]

Deapth Gauges, (DG)

Coray

What ever you end up using, the final tweeking can be done as the chain wares and you sharpen the chain, and the amount you take off at the red "X" will determan the final speed that your chain will run. Just for a say, you may be able to run the DG's at a .035 setting in Aspen and Ponderosia, a .030 in Douglas Fir, and a .025 setting if you cut any hardwoods. (Longer bars, a .030 , .025 and a .020 give or take)
Buying a jig that measures this is nearly a must.

 

[coray]

If all you're cutting is lodgepole and aspen, I'd use a full comp chain. Full skip is way to jumpy on the small stuff and you don't need it to maintain rpm in the small softwood wood you'll be cutting. Your arms will thank you at the end of the day.

And I suspect much of your lodgepole is standing dead? If so, definitely use and RM (semi chisel) type.

Lakeside53,

They are all dead. Bark beattle got to over 70 of them on my buddy's property. Forest Service wants them cut down. What is the difference in using a semi chisel vs. a round in the dead wood? Which would be better for live pines and aspen?

thanks in advance for your help. I sure have learned alot from this site.

 

[SawTroll]

Coray

What ever you end up using, the final tweeking can be done as the chain wares and you sharpen the chain, and the amount you take off at the red "X" will determan the final speed that your chain will run. Just for a say, you may be able to run the DG's at a .035 setting in Aspen and Ponderosia, a .030 in Douglas Fir, and a .025 setting if you cut any hardwoods. (Longer bars, a .030 , .025 and a .020 give or take)
Buying a jig that measures this is nearly a must.

Probably, but the Pherd/Husky single cutter gauge works fine for me and my birches, I allways set the rakers for "soft" wood, I have no idea how many .0XX that is, but it is more than .025, according to my Stihl .025 guide (I use that one for scraping the crud out of the bars) ....

 

[beelsr]

dead wood is tougher on chain than live wood.

to echo andy's comments, and i didn't finish my though on this when I described skip in my earlier post... skip is good for big wood but it's isn't for small wood, because of the vibe reason andy mentioned. it's a real pain in that regard. but it's great in the big trunks....

another thing you want to get is a file guide. It's s a rectangular piece of metal with some slots in it and 2 clips to hold a file. Cost about $7. Photo here: http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/acc_filing.html#guides. They're easy to use when you're a newbie because you just set the file on the chain and give it a lick. If you buy the chain and file guide from your stihl dealer, have him give you a quickie lesson. i doubt you'll get a lesson at a box store.

 

[Lakeside53]

Lakeside53,

They are all dead. Bark beattle got to over 70 of them on my buddy's property. Forest Service wants them cut down. What is the difference in using a semi chisel vs. a round in the dead wood? Which would be better for live pines and aspen?

thanks in advance for your help. I sure have learned alot from this site.

Semi -chisel is "round" filed. Full chisel (square sided) can either be round or square filed. Semi-chisel will last much much longer between sharpenings. The dead wood has all sorts of grit and crap in the bark and cracks. Turn your oiler up full.

I know the dead lodge pole well from cutting in Montana. You definitely need a semi-chisel chain, and it will do just fine in your live softwood trees also.

 

[SteveH]

The standing deadwood you describe is pretty much what I've got here in my area of the Rockies. I've been cutting and burning it for 30+ yr. I use my Stihl 036 [pretty comparable to yours] with a 20" bar and I use exclusively Stihl full chisel round ground [3/8 RS].

I used to use square ground chisel, but I just never got really good at sharpening it and, at the time, anyone local was no better than me, they'd just do it by hand, charge me, and it would be ridiculous.

You don't need to use chisel for what you are doing, but I like it and don't use anything else. Be ready to readjust the chain a few times during the first couple tanks of gas, if the loop of chain is brand new. I think you'll be happy with any good, sharp chain for that soft wood.

I used to use Oregon chain, probably for ten yr. It did fine, was easier to sharpen by hand, but I just like the Stihl better now. Last summer, I cut about three cords of wood [lodgepole and blue spruce, deadwood] with only one Stihl chain and regular light touch-ups by hand. I finally took the chain off for a real good sharpening but it was still cutting pretty well. I never could do that with an Oregon chain. By the way, I was lucky and didn't hit any sandy wood or tiny gravel stuck in the tree. It isn't my usual experience, to go that long on one chain, but the Stihl pretty hard stuff.

I am not a pro, I cut 5 cords or so a year for our home heating.

Flip your bar regularly for even wear. I do it when cleaning up the saw after each day's cutting session. Others go longer.

 

[SawTroll]

I use exclusively Stihl full chisel round ground [3/8 RS]. ....

That chain is discontinued, unless you find some old stock. The RSC (not RSC3) is the replacement, and the only difference is that the RSC cut a bit smoother, thanks to an low-vibe chassis (copied from Oregon).