MS440 or MS441 - You Decide

[blsnelling]

Now Sam.....don't make me drag that ol' junker out the shop....

Bring it on, Wiggs

 

[wigglesworth]

Bring it on, Wiggs

Wont be a problem.....

 

[blsnelling]

Wont be a problem.....

I'd stop by this weekend if you weren't so far away. Maybe it wouldn't be so hot this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wigglesworth]

I'd stop by this weekend if you weren't so far away. Maybe it wouldn't be so hot this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My boots are still soakin wet from the last GTG. I think the heat index was 101 or something like that. Definetly gonna be cooler weather the next go around. Probably gonna do another one early spring.....

 

[blsnelling]

Hmmm, it's a long drive down there, but it was pretty relaxing with a motel stop on both ends.

 

[parrisw]

Are you trying to decide which one to keep or something? The both look pretty darn good.

 

[blsnelling]

Are you trying to decide which one to keep or something? The both look pretty darn good.

Something like that. I absolutely love my 440, and doubt I will ever part with it. This 441 just came along at a steal of a price. It's hard not to love the way they run.

 

[Anthony_Va.]

Something like that. I absolutely love my 440, and doubt I will ever part with it. This 441 just came along at a steal of a price. It's hard not to love the way they run.

Just port the crap out of it and keep it.

And don't forget to post the "data" :monkey: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[blsnelling]

Just port the crap out of it and keep it.

And don't forget to post the "data" :monkey: :hmm3grin2orange:

I just bought the 441 yesterday. It was ported before it ever saw wood

 

[saxman]

I agree with Slamm and others my 441 seemed to take longer to break in than my other non-strat Stihls. I have done a muffler mod on mine and she is a very good cutting saw. I did not time it but this week I was noodling some big oak rounds using my 441 with a 25" bar and my 660 with a 36" bar, both running 3/8 .063 chain and I think the 441 was keeping up as far as speed of cut with the 660. It was my impression, anyway it was making a good showing and was very competitive

 

[caotropheus]

I should have it broken in in a few years then, lol.

Brad,

Please do not worry! Caotropheus is here to help you on this small detail ! :greenchainsaw: Ok, Ok, I will pay shipment fees !

 

[mdavlee]

Those 441s look better and better. I need to run one of these ported 441s that are running around.

 

[litefoot]

I love my 440. No more than I cut (4-5 cord yearly), I'll probably never wear it out. By the time I'm in the market to replace it, maybe they'll be up to a 449.:biggrinbounce2:

 

[Slamm]

Wiggs,

I called you about noonish to see if you wanted to run the saws Friday or Saturday or Sunday. I brought both 441's with me from the woods and have them at the house for a change. Let me now, Bert my cutter will likely come too. A Modded 441R Big Bore might be here Friday or Saturday will have to see when it gets shipped. It supposively handed a very good running ported 460 its rearend with both wearing 8 pin rims and 24" full comp in seasoned oak and ash ............. we'll see.

I'll be back Friday Morning let me know, is that one 460 still stock or did you port it yet?? I was wanting to get some "stock" times down for comparison.

Call me tomorrow, when you get a chance,

Later,

Sam

 

[wigglesworth]

Wiggs,

I called you about noonish to see if you wanted to run the saws Friday or Saturday or Sunday. I brought both 441's with me from the woods and have them at the house for a change. Let me now, Bert my cutter will likely come too. A Modded 441R Big Bore might be here Friday or Saturday will have to see when it gets shipped. It supposively handed a very good running ported 460 its rearend with both wearing 8 pin rims and 24" full comp in seasoned oak and ash ............. we'll see.

I'll be back Friday Morning let me know, is that one 460 still stock or did you port it yet?? I was wanting to get some "stock" times down for comparison.

Call me tomorrow, when you get a chance,

Later,

Sam

That sounds like a plan to me Ill call you tomorrow morning.

 

[Adam_MA]

I own a 460, and I have run a 441. I will agree that the 441 is a very strong saw, and was even successful in helping me fend off a charging pit bull! (cutting in a city known for crackheads, low lives, and drug dealers, and the dog came out of no where. When I saw it, he started charging at me, I squared off with him, and revved the saw. He thought better, and ran away) Maybe it's just me, but I'm not a huge fan of the new AV. For some reason it just feels squishy, and sloppy. Maybe I'm just not used to it's feel, but that's the impression I got.

 

[slowp]

This was a year ago. The logger broke out a brand new 441 and used it as a bucking and limbing saw on blowdown. I followed with Twinkle, the 440 but we did not compare notes as there was quite a difference in operator skill.

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He liked it, even though it is a half pound heavier than a 440. I apologize but I didn't have my "talkie" camera that day. Note that even "pros" get pinched by those bad bad little limbs. This guy was also working while healing up and had one healthy lung and one not working much lung.

 

[Slamm]

I own a 460, and I have run a 441. I will agree that the 441 is a very strong saw, ............. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not a huge fan of the new AV. For some reason it just feels squishy, and sloppy. Maybe I'm just not used to it's feel, but that's the impression I got.

Well everyone has there reasons, but from my point of view its akin to having been driving some old 1975, 1 ton pickup and then someone gives you a cadillac to drive across the country with and you decide to drive the old pickup, because you like to feel the bumps in the road better.

I mean, if everyone else can figure out how to use it, why do some people use this an a reason to not like better AV (Adam, your not the only one that feels this way, so I'm not just pointing this at you, LOL)?????

It just doesn't make any sense to me, LOL.

Is it different ............. yes, its smoother and nicer, its not like Stihl is asking someone to adapt to something that is backwards, you are adapting to something that is better and makes more sense, and in my opinion strong all the way around.

The 441 has one minor fault and one legit fault when compared to the 460:

First the minor: it is apparently more complicated to take apart, well, I operate saws, I don't work on them, LOL, and other than them getting smashed by trees which hasn't every been the saws fault, we haven't ever broke one. My saw builder/modder has the enjoyable service of taking them apart to port and such so I don't much worry about that little detail, and he even says, he has figured out some shortcuts that have sped up that process so that its not that big of a deal.

The Second: I don't think the oiler on the regular model puts out enough oil to use crappy grade bar oil on 28" and bigger bars. I'm not saying that it doesn't work but I feel that that 441R model's oiler is a vast improvement if you are using crappy bar oil (which I do). We haven't had any problems with the Tractor Supply Bar Oil and I'm sure pure Stihl Liquid Gold ......... I mean, Stihl Bar Oil would work great, but use anything of lesser quality and I think problems will arise that maybe those that don't use these things a lot wouldn't know the difference, but its there. Honestly it seems like it puts out about the same as a 361 or something. As an example, on the regular 441's that are ported we are getting two tanks of gas for everyone one tank of oil. On the 441R models we are getting pretty close to 1:1 ratio, which is pretty much the standard needed for those longer bars, when using crap bar oil. I don't know if this was due to some EPA crap or Stihl just wanting everyone to use their bar oil, but its there and to deal with it just perform that simple little, free, oil piston modd and move on with life, slinging oil to your heart's desire.

So while some may not like the 441 for semi-illogical reasons (that they are entitled to have by the way) like "I like to feel the cut (vibes)", "Guys these days are wusses and can't handle vibes" and "Strato's can't be modded" and "they aren't as powerful", "those new springs will break", "they copied Husky", "The Sidways Balance is off" ,,,, and blah, blah it basically is becoming quite obvious to those that will take the "New is Bad" and "Stratos Suck" Blinders off, that Stratos are here to stay, and what logical reason on earth would you NOT want them to be.

After that little rant, to fix the "sloppy" feel of the softer springs just put the heavier springs from a 441R they are substantially "tighter". I like and can deal with the pros and cons of either "weight" of spring. The softer springs with the 28" bar with full skip (which is a rougher cutting chain) has zero vibes in the cut, as in, if you couldn't hear the saw running you wouldn't know it was, by the vibrations emitted to your hands ........ and that my friends is progress. As a logger (or hobby logger, depending on who wants to get manly, LOL), I don't mind having a scarr or two to show, years from now for my work choices, but I'm not interested the hearing loss and paralyzed hands that plague those that have run saws for 10+ hours a day for the better part of their life.

That is my opinion, based on my experience with modded 441's ........... I don't like stock anything and have little to no experience with saws in that form, LOL.

Sam

 

[blsnelling]

They are MUCH more complicated to work on. It's a pretty good job to get the cylinder off. The new 261 is WAY easier to work on.

I don't have any run time on mine to compare, but mine is slinging oil off the top of my 28" bar very well. Time will tell.

What I'd really like is a 80cc MS461, built like a 261!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, all stock saws suck

 

[parrisw]

Well everyone has there reasons, but from my point of view its akin to having been driving some old 1975, 1 ton pickup and then someone gives you a cadillac to drive across the country with and you decide to drive the old pickup, because you like to feel the bumps in the road better.


Sam

YA! LOL, this is why I've liked Husky so much more then Stihl. The AV is leaps and bounds above Stihl its not even funny. I like a smooth saw, and my hand don't hate me at the end of cutting day.