MS461 Giveaway Saw Build Thread

[chadihman]

I had a fairly well known (but not very well liked) saw builder tell me that he had one of my engines apart, and that all he could see was that I had shined up a few things in it. I then told him that I also had been in one of his......and that it looked like something my grandson would do with a burr. That bastard hung up on me.

I have two stock MS 460 saws. Would you be interested in building one for a challenge? I'd send the other one to the fairly well known (but not very well liked) builder who ever that may be. I'd run em hard on the dyno for a tank or two then get torque and HP specs at all rpms.

That's some fine looking port work Randy. Your gonna be busy for the winter now with all this excitement. I'm almost done playing with this dyno then we can make the deal on it to be yours. I'd love to see what you could do with the dyno. Your a darn good saw builder but I bet a dyno would take things to the next a whole nother level. Before I give the dyno up I need to get all the measurements and trace some parts out so I have backup parts if anything fails.

 

[Mastermind]

finally got around to checking on this thread. There are just not enough hours in the day! I'm loving the thread. Thanks so much for posting all the pics. Also, its a joy to help someone out in a tough time. And I might even win a saw. It's a win-win situation, so how do I donate?

I'll be posting some pics of Jon's muffler work tomorrow, and wrapping this up. I figure Brad will kick off the donation thread then.

I have two stock MS 460 saws. Would you be interested in building one for a challenge? I'd send the other one to the fairly well known (but not very well liked) builder who ever that may be. I'd run em hard on the dyno for a tank or two then get torque and HP specs at all rpms.

That's some fine looking port work Randy. Your gonna be busy for the winter now with all this excitement. I'm almost done playing with this dyno then we can make the deal on it to be yours. I'd love to see what you could do with the dyno. Your a darn good saw builder but I bet a dyno would take things to the next a whole nother level. Before I give the dyno up I need to get all the measurements and trace some parts out so I have backup parts if anything fails.

That other builder would cry foul, no matter how it was done. He doesn't lose well, we saw that after the 066 build off.....

 

[tlandrum]

and the 372 build off,and the 346 build off

 

[fastLeo151]

I'll be posting some pics of Jon's muffler work tomorrow, and wrapping this up. I figure Brad will kick off the donation thread then.

That other builder would cry foul, no matter how it was done. He doesn't lose well, we saw that after the 066 build off.....

Yep, plus after the third build off I think we get the point

 

[Mastermind]

and the 372 build off,and the 346 build off

You know who I'm talking about.

 

[CR500]

Here what I use for a piston stop. It's just an old spark plug with the insulator removed, and the center tapped for a 3/8" bolt.



Here's a video showing how to set up the wheel and find TDC using a piston stop.

Randy at the tail end of this useful video.... there a couple notes that just chill the body. That song is Voodoo Chile by the late great Jimi Hendrix. I gotta hand it to you, you certainly have great music taste. Being a SRV guy I could see a little Hendrix in you library lol.


Most people do not know this but Hendrix did not play this through his Marshall amps like he was known to do. He actually played this song through a Fender Bassman. Hendrix is my favorite!!

 

[(:-D]

I want to ship my 361 to you now... That's some cool work there! Thanks for the pics is neat to see machining work. I was a mill & lathe operator for Mahle before they closed that shop. I loved machining parts but never got to do anything like this!

Not to derail this thread, but how much difference does this type of job make on a saw?

 

[Big_Wood]

You know who I'm talking about.

so randy. just curious here and i don't expect you to tell me the name of this builder but if you wanna PM it to me that would be cool. so i know never to send him a saw of coarse i may be way off here but if this builder is from canada and on AS, more specifically from campbell river B.C. i'll have you know that i've had his engines apart and they are absolutely nothing compared to yours. like hold your head in shame bad. you probably know who i'm talking about. the little bit of work he did was clean but that little bit of work was worth no more then the 10 minutes pay to remove and install the cylinder. meanwhile the guys that do terrible work are still charging the same. it's rediculous and maddening i tell you

 

[tooold]

Very nice thread. I have never ported saws but have done my share of sleds, atv's, and bikes. I agree with you that when it comes to porting, sometimes less is more. It's not how much you take out, it's where! It seems the know-it-all's have lots of scrapped cylinders laying around too. One question though. I find when I would tighten up the squish area with higher compression, some engines would need the timing retarded some because the flame front was much faster. Do you ever run into that with saws?

 

[Mastermind]

Randy at the tail end of this useful video.... there a couple notes that just chill the body. That song is Voodoo Chile by the late great Jimi Hendrix. I gotta hand it to you, you certainly have great music taste. Being a SRV guy I could see a little Hendrix in you library lol.


Most people do not know this but Hendrix did not play this through his Marshall amps like he was known to do. He actually played this song through a Fender Bassman. Hendrix is my favorite!!

The music playing in my little shop is an internet station called Pandora 1. I've added all my favorite genres and many of my most beloved artists. The music playing will range from Progressive Bluegrass to Blues Rock, and everything in between. My favorite band right now is Little Feat, in the Lowell George days......but that changes depending on my mood.

I want to ship my 361 to you now... That's some cool work there! Thanks for the pics is neat to see machining work. I was a mill & lathe operator for Mahle before they closed that shop. I loved machining parts but never got to do anything like this!

Not to derail this thread, but how much difference does this type of job make on a saw?

On this saw we normally see a 35 - 40% increase in cut speed. Chain makes so much difference on a saw that all are gains can be made a moot point if the operator doesn't maintain a sharp chain.

Very nice thread. I have never ported saws but have done my share of sleds, atv's, and bikes. I agree with you that when it comes to porting, sometimes less is more. It's not how much you take out, it's where! It seems the know-it-all's have lots of scrapped cylinders laying around too. One question though. I find when I would tighten up the squish area with higher compression, some engines would need the timing retarded some because the flame front was much faster. Do you ever run into that with saws?

This is one of those things that I've kicked around quite a lot. Everyone looks at this from a mechanical standpoint rather than in a "what's really happening in there" view. If when stock the engine had a wide, lazy squish area.....then yes I've seen the timing advance that I do be too much lead. Case in point, I did a Solo 681 not long ago.....it had the timing advanced by a builder that had tweaked the saw before me. When I cut the squish and tightened things up, you could tell it was running with too much timing lead. I had to retard the timing some to make it run properly.

I have to wonder if that could be affected by both the increase in flame front travel speed, and the fact that the point of ignition (spark plug) is now physically closer to the piston crown????

This sort of stuff is the kind of thing that interests me the most at this point.....

 

[ernurse]

Just checked back in on this thread....very professional. I thought that I had a rough idea of what was involved. This is definitely more of an art than a science.....makes me even more excited for the return of my 441 now that I know what is being done to it. Thanks for sharing Randy.

 

[Mastermind]

Your 441 is next in line.......I hated to slip this one in front of it.......but it had to go in front of someone's.

 

[o8f150]

great job as usual randy

 

[Mastermind]

Thanks Scott. I try pretty hard.

 

[gpb]

"A lot of people say I shouldn't show so much of what I do, that my competition will take that information and use it to build saws just like the ones I build, and then I'd lose any edge I may have." (Quoted from Randy).

I've been watching Tiger Woods swing videos for years and still can't do what he does. Either you got it or don't...you sir, have got it. Great thread and easily worth the $250 to me.
Thanks

 

[Mastermind]

Now for some pics of the muffler work.

Jon starts by removing the whole baffle from the shell. In this pic you can see that he's center punched the spot welds and highlighted them with a black marker.



Then he drills the spot welds thru the baffle, but not all the way thru the shell.







The top attachment point is yet more spot welds, they are cut thru with a round carbide burr.



And she's outta there!!!!

 

[ernurse]

Your 441 is next in line.......I hated to slip this one in front of it.......but it had to go in front of someone's.

LOL its ok Randy no worries. The 461 is a great cause....I hope to win it. I hope the proceeds really help T-bone out. I know what hard times are like.

 

[Mastermind]

Now to match the muffler shell to the cylinder. Again we use the heat shield as a template.





We use a mesh screen that is more open in mufflers that will still accept a screen after the mods.



I didn't have a good picture of the side outlet......I will get a better one when the muffler is complete.

 

[Mastermind]

Now for the cover.

This is an OEM MS460 cover that I've been hoarding...this is a good place to use it I think.



They have a pretty small outlet from the factory......Jon fixes that.



Ready for paint....



Wiggs turned us on to this trick. Heating the muffler before painting it makes the paint dry as it hit the part......and it seems more durable.



More later after it's all buttoned back up.

 

[kc4sfe]

This is truly amazing to watch this process come together. Fear not - I'll not attempt this anytime soon but if I need a saw ported there is a VERY short list of who I would ask!