so,,you got my post removed slowp.. must make you happy to be favored,no??? leave permanently why don't you???
Multi phase logging taking its toll.
- Thread starter Westboastfaller
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So, because of a lack of common sense in one person, you would discourage folks from furthering their education and encourage the blame game to continue? What about trade schools? What about tech training? Or are those no good either, because they might make people that think differently than you? Who might be more marketable because they've got that hated piece of paper. Like it or not, that paper matters to a lot of employers.
Honestly, I don't understand how education can be blamed for unsafe work conditions. Oh, Oly, that is the TOPIC!. It sounds like there are too many people available for too few jobs so no negotiation can be take place because they can fire you and get somebody else who will toe the company line. You have no leverage, and your job prospects are limited. It's a game that has gone on for centuries, and unions have been vilified so are not there to go to bat for you.
You're on your own. Good luck.
the topic is,,you didnt like my one post,,cried, and got it removed...I do believe,,you said you were leaving the site....
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Don't worry Jon I've been lurking... Pretty tired and beat up these days.
No that's not the topic, but by all means please participate IN THE TOPIC
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Most business owners are in the business of making money. That means finding ways to be more efficient. Lowering costs, raising production. Pretty simple really. Education level really has nothing to do with it other than maybe making a more informed decision. Sometimes you try new things and they work. Sometimes they don't. Unfortunately people paid with their lives. Not the first time and won't be the last. The feet on the ground really need to speak up if things are getting ugly before they go really bad. The owners don't make money if there is no production. That will get attention and change.
For the record I'm a college boy. After way too many years at it I realized I didn't like the people or the scene in general. The woods kept calling my name. You don't have to be educated to be lazy and inexperienced.
For the record I'm a college boy. After way too many years at it I realized I didn't like the people or the scene in general. The woods kept calling my name. You don't have to be educated to be lazy and inexperienced.
the truth...........
The real reason stuff like this occurs is not money grubbing CEOs so much as companies desperately trying to remain profitable in the PNW. The fact is, the industry is struggling and dying in that region of the US. Environmental laws and extremism, coupled with harsh geography and pests are making the PNW a hard place to make money in the timber business. More and more companies are abandoning ship and moving production down south, with great success (just look at Interfor). Measures like these exist to try to make work profitable in a region seemingly hell-bent on driving out operations. They may go away, but when they do it will be because the companies have gone away as well.
David Thompson Kennedy 'retired at the stump' Dec 7 2014
It was a hard day yesterday as I sat down with my Falling partner mid day and started asking about people from a company we both worked for.
David was our Bullbucker in Kwatsi bay, Kingcome Inlet.
He broke me in Heli Falling.
I worked with him for three weeks at that time. We also go back as for as the early '90's in the tree thinning days.
Thanks for that one cool trick. I use it every day on the job.
Thanks For everything David
You were one heck of a faller, safe Faller.
I remember your St Christopher's around your neck.
May your God have gone with you my friend.
It was a hard day yesterday as I sat down with my Falling partner mid day and started asking about people from a company we both worked for.
David was our Bullbucker in Kwatsi bay, Kingcome Inlet.
He broke me in Heli Falling.
I worked with him for three weeks at that time. We also go back as for as the early '90's in the tree thinning days.
Thanks for that one cool trick. I use it every day on the job.
Thanks For everything David
You were one heck of a faller, safe Faller.
I remember your St Christopher's around your neck.
May your God have gone with you my friend.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Ok I should chime back in, education in itself is not a bad thing. However when it is a pre-requisite to leading corporations it can and does get ugly. For instance, I was a danger tree foreman for power 13 years after 10 previous years of routine maintenance. In that time frame, I witnessed college boys adversely effect safety. Ceo's only care about shareholders interest so they cut costs anyway they can. They in my experience do so by cutting expense and in my experience that meant getting inferior tooling, ropes,saddles,bucket trucks etc. They get the cheapest they can to get by! Then to stay current with work place safety they have us do weekly tailgate safety meetings and SIGN these. Why are signatures put on them, why of course to take responsibility off their shoulders right ? They create a court case prior accident thereby; laying a paper trail for fault finding and avenues for reducing their and shareholder responsibilities. They basically want your wife to live on beanie weinny's in the event of your untimely death!! Then comes in production requirements "ie cattle prod" I made my safety meeting about production requirements and fatigue levels it created and got reprimanded for it why ?
Because; I wanted my own paper trail and the ceo seen it could undermine his casualty loss for his share holders in the event of my untimely death! They even had the audacity to have write ups in the corporate news letter what they implemented on safety and btw they removed and shredded my safety meeting, even though; production requirements and fatigue are the number one offender of work place accidents. I could write a book on things I seen college boys do to limit loss to shareholder interests. They have no clue about field work and that you broke a safety rule because of a bald faced hornet nest why? Because; they have never experienced the field work they head up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because; I wanted my own paper trail and the ceo seen it could undermine his casualty loss for his share holders in the event of my untimely death! They even had the audacity to have write ups in the corporate news letter what they implemented on safety and btw they removed and shredded my safety meeting, even though; production requirements and fatigue are the number one offender of work place accidents. I could write a book on things I seen college boys do to limit loss to shareholder interests. They have no clue about field work and that you broke a safety rule because of a bald faced hornet nest why? Because; they have never experienced the field work they head up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you just pissed off every overedumaaacated zero on this forum.....
I attend in-service trainings, I study every internet article I can find, I read the literature included with new and old saws. In addition I listen to tailgate briefings and more often conduct them. I even read the...stuff posted here. And yep, some days I carry a clipboard, walk fast and look worried when other people beside me are running a saw or operating equipment.
But I guess all that is wrong? Dang I knew I should have left school once I learned sums. Well kinda learned them. Thanks Oly. I wish I was more like you buddy.
But I guess all that is wrong? Dang I knew I should have left school once I learned sums. Well kinda learned them. Thanks Oly. I wish I was more like you buddy.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The envy is palpable here. Zeros because they are educated? Please
A college educated manager isn't always bad. I've worked for college graduates, foresters mostly, who had a good knowledge of the industry and made sound decisions based on their training and what was actually happening in the woods.
I've also worked for bad managers, usually bean counters, but they didn't present us with any problems we couldn't overcome. They almost always shot themselves in the foot with their bad ideas and poor planning and wound up looking for other work.
People with little or no formal education often resent being told what to do and how to do it by managers they see as having less practical experience than themselves. They especially resent it when they realize that the manager is younger than they are and has already risen above them in station and responsibility. That's just a fact of life and they need to find a way to deal with it.
I've also worked for bad managers, usually bean counters, but they didn't present us with any problems we couldn't overcome. They almost always shot themselves in the foot with their bad ideas and poor planning and wound up looking for other work.
People with little or no formal education often resent being told what to do and how to do it by managers they see as having less practical experience than themselves. They especially resent it when they realize that the manager is younger than they are and has already risen above them in station and responsibility. That's just a fact of life and they need to find a way to deal with it.
It's just Oly doing what he does best. Sad case, actually. Don't take him seriously. He's basically harmless. Obnoxious, but harmless.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
No; as I said learning all you can is admirable, what I'm saying is corporate leader positions over field type work should be left to those that performed that work for years. I have tried to learn what I can most of my life and will continue to do so. I just feel positions should be earned. Ask yourself this; if someone spent his entire life doing mechanic work say 25 years; would he be more fit to lead fellow mechanics than a school boy without practical experience?
No, but a college graduate does not get handed a Ceo position straight out of school. They work in THEIR field, be it accounting, finance, marketing, logistics, engineering, etc. to get that position. A college graduate with a couple decades experience in corporate management is far more qualified to be the chief executive of a forest-products company than an employee that has been a forester or run a loader for 50 years. It's simply different paths and different attributes required to do a job. Focusing on the field and neglecting shareholders will ruin a company as quickly as the reverse will. Balance is the key.
A good worker, no matter how experienced, doesn't always make a good manager. Different sets of skills entirely.
Just because a worker can do the particular tasks required doesn't mean he can handle budgeting or human resources, or scheduling, or equipment aquisition, or communicate well with upper management, or the dozens of other management tasks that most workers, no matter how skilled, don't even know exist.
That being said, a manager without practical experience would do well to really listen to what the workers have to say.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
You make a point, just as I do on field work type companies. Ceo's for the most part, I believe "skip ethics 101"
However; the true weight of dangerous education exists in DC and its lawyers. I however do understand its better than no law at all. The costs of this education is insurmountable in the over ten million word tax code and regs alone. Just remember it takes highly educated person to reward a bimbo for spilling hot coffee on her privates. If I were the judge, id say; you would have been mad if it were cold case closed. Just examples of education at work
Damn. Bob and Dog beat me to everything I wanted to say, and sure, you can discredit whatever I have to say because I'm a thirty year old college educated engineer whose company does more gross income in two months than you will in your life, with "just" 15 years practical experience .
But, at the end of the day, we all pay our dues. Welcome to life. I can identify with everything that Bob, Barf and Dogs said at least once, and probably more than once in my career, and I can surely expand on each time if you'd like. It's obvious that you have significant disdain for those more educated than you. Sorry that we've upset you. But your ignorance precedes you.
Well, crap. I resorted to ad hominem, albeit after quite a bit of Jameson's. I'll stop before I get really pissed off over something not worth being upset about and get myself banned.
But, at the end of the day, we all pay our dues. Welcome to life. I can identify with everything that Bob, Barf and Dogs said at least once, and probably more than once in my career, and I can surely expand on each time if you'd like. It's obvious that you have significant disdain for those more educated than you. Sorry that we've upset you. But your ignorance precedes you.
Well, crap. I resorted to ad hominem, albeit after quite a bit of Jameson's. I'll stop before I get really pissed off over something not worth being upset about and get myself banned.
