My Disston DO-101 pics (I hope)
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Lewis Brander
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Hi glens:
Hi glens. Thanks for the compliment, I think. Ha, I'd rather work on an older saw than work on these new so called new High Tech wonders. I read the threads on cylinder materilals, electronic ignitions, double barraled carburetors, moded saws, cat converters, all this power output and higher rpm's and what do you have. Guys still ripping them apart and moding them farther. It's nice to take a saw and see what you can get out of it. But it's still a chainsaw. I enjoy taking an old saw and using it for what it was desighed for. I'm not trying to set any so called land speed records. The wood will eventually get cut up and split and I can still leasurely take my time and enjoy them. I've got saws that are basically in original shape (except for some minor parts replacement) and they still do there job. All of today's technology had it's so called beginnings, but it's always nice to go back to basics to just see how things have progressed. Just seems, with all the razzel dazzel, we still just have a wood eating saw. I'm not advocating that we go back to an Amish life style, I like a few modern convienences, but I appreciate the older simpler ways of life, it seem the older I get. I appreciate things that can be worked on, repaired and kept running without too much expence. The newer saws and their innovations are nice, but I'm not that impressed with them. Let's see where they'll be in 50 years. JMO. I'd rather work all day with an old John Deere A, a McCormick Deering than ride around all day in some high reving tractor with an air conditioned cab. Life was simpler then and more appreciated. Thanks for reading. Take care. Lewis.
Hi glens. Thanks for the compliment, I think. Ha, I'd rather work on an older saw than work on these new so called new High Tech wonders. I read the threads on cylinder materilals, electronic ignitions, double barraled carburetors, moded saws, cat converters, all this power output and higher rpm's and what do you have. Guys still ripping them apart and moding them farther. It's nice to take a saw and see what you can get out of it. But it's still a chainsaw. I enjoy taking an old saw and using it for what it was desighed for. I'm not trying to set any so called land speed records. The wood will eventually get cut up and split and I can still leasurely take my time and enjoy them. I've got saws that are basically in original shape (except for some minor parts replacement) and they still do there job. All of today's technology had it's so called beginnings, but it's always nice to go back to basics to just see how things have progressed. Just seems, with all the razzel dazzel, we still just have a wood eating saw. I'm not advocating that we go back to an Amish life style, I like a few modern convienences, but I appreciate the older simpler ways of life, it seem the older I get. I appreciate things that can be worked on, repaired and kept running without too much expence. The newer saws and their innovations are nice, but I'm not that impressed with them. Let's see where they'll be in 50 years. JMO. I'd rather work all day with an old John Deere A, a McCormick Deering than ride around all day in some high reving tractor with an air conditioned cab. Life was simpler then and more appreciated. Thanks for reading. Take care. Lewis.
Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well Lewis ,I can relate to all of that. 
A little thought about that condenser,just about any condenser that will physically fit in the area provided,will work.While its function is like that of a battery powered coil,it is not susceptible to points burning due to the low amount of the primary voltage.I once repaired an mag on a D4 cat,with a Chevy condenser,mounted on the out side,of the mag.,until I found the right one.
A little thought about that condenser,just about any condenser that will physically fit in the area provided,will work.While its function is like that of a battery powered coil,it is not susceptible to points burning due to the low amount of the primary voltage.I once repaired an mag on a D4 cat,with a Chevy condenser,mounted on the out side,of the mag.,until I found the right one.
Ranchero50
ArboristSite Member
Lewis, I was an electronics tech in the Navy for 6 years. I did go back over the components individually with my Fluke 87 digital meter. The primary side of the coil seems shorted together. The primary to lam reading is 847k, same for the ground to laminations. The coil is busted up and the condensor is cheap insurance. Either way I have a new condensor, coil and high voltage grease on order.
Sorry if my posts seem a bit disfunctional, I've been helping my little brother swap and 4.0l into his '92 2.9l ranger 4x4, and troubleshoot the saws this week, plus worked 60hrs at work... I'm about whooped.
Speeking of tractors I have my friends 1965 International 340 utility coming up in a week or two to get a clutch put in. Rebuilt the 3pt and steering this spring, motor and clutch are next. May end up buying it if I can find a use for it...
First pic is ugly, second is nice with my 8yr old posing
Jamie
I did go back over the components individually with my Fluke 87 digital meter. The primary side of the coil seems shorted together. The primary to lam reading is 847k, same for the ground to laminations. The coil is busted up and the condensor is cheap insurance. Either way I have a new condensor, coil and high voltage grease on order.Sorry if my posts seem a bit disfunctional, I've been helping my little brother swap and 4.0l into his '92 2.9l ranger 4x4, and troubleshoot the saws this week, plus worked 60hrs at work... I'm about whooped.
Speeking of tractors I have my friends 1965 International 340 utility coming up in a week or two to get a clutch put in. Rebuilt the 3pt and steering this spring, motor and clutch are next. May end up buying it if I can find a use for it...
First pic is ugly, second is nice with my 8yr old posing
Jamie
Lewis Brander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hi Al:
Hi Al. I always thought that most any condencer would work for a replacement as long it was at least 25 mfd's. I had a Homelite (C-51) with a condencer that was pretty small that was leaking. I tried to mount and use a Briggs condencer which is larger, out side the flywheel. I got spark, but not enough to start the saw. She'd pop and fire and that was about it. Finally got the right replacement and the saw fired right up after repacement. The old PM Rocket has a condencer the size of your thumb (looks like condencers from inside an old radio) and would throw a good hot spark after I repaired the coil. I experimented with another condencer with that saw, to no avail. I would still get a spark, but it wasn't hot enough to suit me and don't think the saw would have started with it. There were no markings on either condencer to compair sizes too and it's either not listed in the manuels or I don't have manuels to view for the saw. The Disston condencer showed signs of leakage, but would still discharge viewing an ohm meter. The coil was shot, so I ordered a replacement condencer with the coil. The old PM Rocket has a fairly large coil size in the mag with that thumb sized condencer. Grubb's has one that looks similar on there site. I just think that the condencer has to be matched to the coil. As far as the Disston and PM Rocket goes, I sure wouldn't want to have hold of the spark plug wire and have someone crank them over. They throw sparks like the old International, John Deere and Wico magnetos. A bright blue spark of at least 1/2". Thats the secret for any good starting saw. Some specifications say the ignition is good if the spark jumps .100", but I like to see them do better. Course todays saws have gone electronic and you have to be carefull not to make them jump a large gap too many times or the system might fail from what I'm gathering, so what happens if the system is compromised the slightest bit? The saw will fire an open gap, but not start under compression. The older magnetos were a lot nicer to work with. Basically a go or no go system, you could test and repair the various components without guessing if the coil was bad or is the moduel or pick up bad. Electronics are nice, but don't believe that they stand up to vibration, heat, gas, oil and a certain amount of abuse that the older systems stood up to. The condencer you used must have been about the right sized capacitance for that ignition system. I've tried to use other condencers in an emergency. Sometimes they seem to work with no problems and other times no good. Ok, rambled on enough. Take care. Lewis.
Hi Al. I always thought that most any condencer would work for a replacement as long it was at least 25 mfd's. I had a Homelite (C-51) with a condencer that was pretty small that was leaking. I tried to mount and use a Briggs condencer which is larger, out side the flywheel. I got spark, but not enough to start the saw. She'd pop and fire and that was about it. Finally got the right replacement and the saw fired right up after repacement. The old PM Rocket has a condencer the size of your thumb (looks like condencers from inside an old radio) and would throw a good hot spark after I repaired the coil. I experimented with another condencer with that saw, to no avail. I would still get a spark, but it wasn't hot enough to suit me and don't think the saw would have started with it. There were no markings on either condencer to compair sizes too and it's either not listed in the manuels or I don't have manuels to view for the saw. The Disston condencer showed signs of leakage, but would still discharge viewing an ohm meter. The coil was shot, so I ordered a replacement condencer with the coil. The old PM Rocket has a fairly large coil size in the mag with that thumb sized condencer. Grubb's has one that looks similar on there site. I just think that the condencer has to be matched to the coil. As far as the Disston and PM Rocket goes, I sure wouldn't want to have hold of the spark plug wire and have someone crank them over. They throw sparks like the old International, John Deere and Wico magnetos. A bright blue spark of at least 1/2". Thats the secret for any good starting saw. Some specifications say the ignition is good if the spark jumps .100", but I like to see them do better. Course todays saws have gone electronic and you have to be carefull not to make them jump a large gap too many times or the system might fail from what I'm gathering, so what happens if the system is compromised the slightest bit? The saw will fire an open gap, but not start under compression. The older magnetos were a lot nicer to work with. Basically a go or no go system, you could test and repair the various components without guessing if the coil was bad or is the moduel or pick up bad. Electronics are nice, but don't believe that they stand up to vibration, heat, gas, oil and a certain amount of abuse that the older systems stood up to. The condencer you used must have been about the right sized capacitance for that ignition system. I've tried to use other condencers in an emergency. Sometimes they seem to work with no problems and other times no good. Ok, rambled on enough. Take care. Lewis.
Jamie,Ranchero50 said:Lewis, I was an electronics tech in the Navy for 6 years.
I guess in the Navy they call condensers by the "modern" name of capacitor? hahaha!
I've got a nephew in the Navy that's doing some electronics technician work on the new Reagan. He says they've got some updated Microsoft servers where they can actually reboot them remotely now, which they all like since it's a weekly (or sooner) task and it's a big boat. Like me, he hates the stuff...
Glen
Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
I think the term"condenser" came from the English,they used to refer to a vaccum tube as a valve.I was a navy tech also{sonar}but after not using it for so long,often have to refer to my books.Points and coil type ignitions can be a real pain at times but ,unlike the elecronic types,can be repaired .
Lewis Brander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Magnetos vs. Electronic:
Hi Al: Nicely said. The older mags could be repaired, they seemed to me to hold up better. Then you have the electroninc stuff, but with todays throw away mentallity that's the way it is. If it works fine, but if it doesn't replace it. You might be able to isolate the problem, but usually there's not much repair that can be done. Talk later. Lewis.
Hi Al: Nicely said. The older mags could be repaired, they seemed to me to hold up better. Then you have the electroninc stuff, but with todays throw away mentallity that's the way it is. If it works fine, but if it doesn't replace it. You might be able to isolate the problem, but usually there's not much repair that can be done. Talk later. Lewis.
McC
ArboristSite Guru
Hi Lewis,
The diaphrams and o-rings came today (Monday), who says the mail is slow. As soon as the snowmobiles get put away, the Disston is going up on the workbench for a carb rebuild. That's some clever fabricating you did. Thanks again.
Scott
The diaphrams and o-rings came today (Monday), who says the mail is slow. As soon as the snowmobiles get put away, the Disston is going up on the workbench for a carb rebuild. That's some clever fabricating you did. Thanks again.
Scott
Lewis Brander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Disston Diaphragms:
Hi Scott. I was sure that you would not get them till the middle ot the week. Glad you got them al right. Took me 2 days to make the first set for my Disston. 4 hrs for the second set and 2 1/2 to make these. Ha, glad there's not a high demand for them, I'd never keep up. Hopefully the side cover gasket is ok and the bottom diaphragm with the needle valve is OK, I was thinking of sealing the bottom diaphragm with some gas proof sealer to save it, but haven't as yet. I tried some of the sealer/adhesive on an old carb diaphragm and it seemed to stiffin it up a little after drying. I think that if I applied it and put the carb back together the spring would keep it in the right shape, since the throttle shaft moves the diaphragm against the spring as it is opened. I'll try it on another fuel meter I have to see how it works and let you know. The diaphragm in that fuel meter is pretty well deteriorated. Will be interesting to see if this stuff might save it. OK. talk later. IF you have any questions, shoot me an email. Take care. Lewis.
Hi Scott. I was sure that you would not get them till the middle ot the week. Glad you got them al right. Took me 2 days to make the first set for my Disston. 4 hrs for the second set and 2 1/2 to make these. Ha, glad there's not a high demand for them, I'd never keep up. Hopefully the side cover gasket is ok and the bottom diaphragm with the needle valve is OK, I was thinking of sealing the bottom diaphragm with some gas proof sealer to save it, but haven't as yet. I tried some of the sealer/adhesive on an old carb diaphragm and it seemed to stiffin it up a little after drying. I think that if I applied it and put the carb back together the spring would keep it in the right shape, since the throttle shaft moves the diaphragm against the spring as it is opened. I'll try it on another fuel meter I have to see how it works and let you know. The diaphragm in that fuel meter is pretty well deteriorated. Will be interesting to see if this stuff might save it. OK. talk later. IF you have any questions, shoot me an email. Take care. Lewis.
Ranchero50
ArboristSite Member
Lewis, I recieved the coil last night, even got it installed and it shoots about a 1/4" spark. .With the new condensor I'm getting some arcing on the points. May swap the original back in. BTW, the new coil read 3 ohms on the primary side. The old one read resistance from the primary to the laminate plates. Regardless, it fires now.
Jamie
Jamie
Lewis Brander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ranchero50:
Hello Jamie. Is the new capacitor the same size as the old one in appearance? Probably doesn't make much difference. Check both to be sure thet aren't leaking. **** Also check and clean all mounting serfaces.**** Where the capacitor is screwed to the plate, where the coil is clamped to the laminations and where the ground wires are attached to ground. Make sure the points are dressed properly and cleaned. I also put just a small dab of white lub on the point piviot pin to lube them and also a dab of white lube on the felt pad to lube the rubbing block. Make sure the points are snapping shut when you open them with a screw driver and let them snap shut. If they don't sound like they're snapping shut the flat spring might be weak or needs to be bent a bit to put more pressure or snap onto the points (to prevent point bounce). Just more things to consider. Confused yet? Lewis.
Hello Jamie. Is the new capacitor the same size as the old one in appearance? Probably doesn't make much difference. Check both to be sure thet aren't leaking. **** Also check and clean all mounting serfaces.**** Where the capacitor is screwed to the plate, where the coil is clamped to the laminations and where the ground wires are attached to ground. Make sure the points are dressed properly and cleaned. I also put just a small dab of white lub on the point piviot pin to lube them and also a dab of white lube on the felt pad to lube the rubbing block. Make sure the points are snapping shut when you open them with a screw driver and let them snap shut. If they don't sound like they're snapping shut the flat spring might be weak or needs to be bent a bit to put more pressure or snap onto the points (to prevent point bounce). Just more things to consider. Confused yet? Lewis.
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Ranchero50
ArboristSite Member
Not confused, just a little concerned about burning a set of irreplacable points.
BTW I got a '58 ish Homelite ZIP and a '50 ish Lombard Model 3 today for $50. The ZIP has the most potential, #3 is corroded pretty bad around the jug from where the roof was leaking. I'll post some pics once I get home.
Jamie
BTW I got a '58 ish Homelite ZIP and a '50 ish Lombard Model 3 today for $50. The ZIP has the most potential, #3 is corroded pretty bad around the jug from where the roof was leaking. I'll post some pics once I get home.
Jamie
Lewis Brander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Old saws:
Hello Jamie. I also have a Homelite,Zip coming to me from Rochester, NY. I'm meeting a fellow to pick it up on the 15th of Jan. I have the Parts manuel for that saw in PDF format if you would like it. Let me know and I'll email it to you as I did the manuels for the old Disston. I don't have the operator's manuel as yet. The old Lombard if it's complete will take just a little more patience and TLC to clean up and restore, but should be a good project. Lewis.
Hello Jamie. I also have a Homelite,Zip coming to me from Rochester, NY. I'm meeting a fellow to pick it up on the 15th of Jan. I have the Parts manuel for that saw in PDF format if you would like it. Let me know and I'll email it to you as I did the manuels for the old Disston. I don't have the operator's manuel as yet. The old Lombard if it's complete will take just a little more patience and TLC to clean up and restore, but should be a good project. Lewis.
Ranchero50
ArboristSite Member
Got them home tonight. The Zip even had gas in it, albeit very stinky gas. Both were locked up. Popped the plugs out an squirted a little Kroil in and the Lombard broke free in about a minute of wrist action. In another minute it was rolling over three strokes to a twist of the wrist. It is cursed (blessed?) with an old style capstan rope pull for a starter. Not sure what happened to the recoil starter if it ever had one. It even has a wine bottle cork for a oil fill plug A few minutes of tinkering even got the throttle linkage to work.
On other new that I almost forgot, I got the Disston to run tonight. Woop Woop. On about the fifth pull of the cord after priming the carb it fired off. The carb is crap and not feeding it fuel so I had to keep the choke shut to keep it running (or I may have a huge seal leak). For some odd reason it's pumping oil out of the center of the chain sprocket. I filled both oil resevoirs to the same level with the same oil so I'll have to see which one is low tomorow.
I'll keep you informed.
A few minutes of tinkering even got the throttle linkage to work.On other new that I almost forgot, I got the Disston to run tonight. Woop Woop. On about the fifth pull of the cord after priming the carb it fired off. The carb is crap and not feeding it fuel so I had to keep the choke shut to keep it running (or I may have a huge seal leak). For some odd reason it's pumping oil out of the center of the chain sprocket. I filled both oil resevoirs to the same level with the same oil so I'll have to see which one is low tomorow.
I'll keep you informed.
Ranchero50
ArboristSite Member
Oh yeah, Lewis if you want email that other manual. The Zip is complete and should make a decent running saw when finished.
Jamie
Jamie
Mange
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hou can down load it from here as well: http://www.samlaren.org/samlarforum/viewtopic.php?t=384&sid=2c8f58a5573f52a281812d81b3240e22
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