My stihl 084av is running lean What to check?

[Lakeside53]

As the other have said .. no to the picco... and of course, the bar won't fit. Big mount bars are .063 guage anyhow.

As for using throttle gently to not stress your chain... Saws aren't like that.. As you know you need to mill at full throttle and keep the speed in check by application of cutting pressure. As you bog and release, the trigger is still full and the chain accelerates instantly. Watch the chain while milling - scary how an 066 whips that chain when throttling up and down (by adjusting pressure or throttle), and your 084 will be much worse. I'm using .404 on my 088 - big kerf, but I like the strong chain on the big bars.

I may be wrong but I believe the MAX HP rating on Picco is limited to about 3 in the USA. Stihl once made a Picco bar for the 026, but dropped it.

The workshop manual is part number 0452 129 1323, and the IPL is 0455 129 0123

 

[thompson1600]

Logosol currently sells Picco ripping chain up to 25". Stihl also has a 3/8 Picco 7 tooth sprocket for the 066. Part # 1122-640-2006, sold through Logosol.

Tom

 

[Lakeside53]

Logosol must be importing them from another county... that sprocket isnt available (from Stihl) in the USA - I tried to get a couple... On an old Stihl mediacat I saw a mill that was using a 25 inch Picco bar but I dont see it on the later versions. Might try it on an 036, but I'm chicken on an 066.. My standard 3/8 is scary enough on long bars (milling).

 

[PWB]

I'm running 3/8 .050 on a 30" bar on an 084. First thing the local stihl dealer said to me was "How many chains have you broke?" It's a lot of power to put through a little rivet................

 

[thompson1600]

The sprocket comes in original Stihl packaging. When I asked them about it, and my local dealer, I was told it was made specifically for Logosol. Haven't had a chance to put in on one of my 066's to try it though, yet.

 

[Lakeside53]

I'm running 3/8 .050 on a 30" bar on an 084. First thing the local stihl dealer said to me was "How many chains have you broke?" It's a lot of power to put through a little rivet................

Is it a stihl bar?

 

[jhazel3]

Can't forget never knew See learnin all sorts of stuff I bought the chains and bar and sprocket from logosol all stihl parts and since i didnt get the 660 i will be sending the sprocket back
Thanks JimIII

 

[TimberPig]

Can't forget never knew See learnin all sorts of stuff I bought the chains and bar and sprocket from logosol all stihl parts and since i didnt get the 660 i will be sending the sprocket back
Thanks JimIII

In case you missed it, a bar for an 066 doesn't bolt onto an 084, without a trip to the machine shop. The 066 uses the standard Stihl mount used on all their saws from the 026/260 to the 066/660. The 084/088, use the big Stihl mount as used on the 051, 075, 076, 090 etc.

 

[Lakeside53]

Can't forget never knew See learnin all sorts of stuff I bought the chains and bar and sprocket from logosol all stihl parts and since i didnt get the 660 i will be sending the sprocket back
Thanks JimIII

I beleive that particular bar is from the Stihl LG mill series (looks like an Alaska mill). Not sold by Stihl In the USA. If you don't intend to use the Picco sprocket, you may as well send the bar back also... the tip is different. Picco chain is .365 pitch.

 

[PWB]

Is it a stihl bar?

It's an Oregon Power Match Plus that spent some time on a Bridgeport mill Actually bought it for my 064.

 

[Lakeside53]

It's an Oregon Power Match Plus that spent some time on a Bridgeport mill Actually bought it for my 064.

hmmm... Does it have a Picco bar tip sprocket or are you just using a 3/8 tip?

 

[PWB]

hmmm... Does it have a Picco bar tip sprocket or are you just using a 3/8 tip?

Just a 3/8 tip with 3/8 full house chisel. I'm not milling, just a firewood saw.

 

[Lakeside53]

Just a 3/8 tip with 3/8 full house chisel. I'm not milling, just a firewood saw.

Sorry, I thought you bougth the bar for the PICCO chains...

 

[jhazel3]

I dont understand?

I dont understand my picco chain says right on the box 3/8 It is PMX sold by logosol does the other 3/8 chain have something different? the bar is by oregon and it was sold to match the chain it is a 25" prolite .050 . Still waiting on the service manual dealer said two weeks.
Thanks Jim III

 

[Lakeside53]

I dont understand my picco chain says right on the box 3/8 It is PMX sold by logosol does the other 3/8 chain have something different? the bar is by oregon and it was sold to match the chain it is a 25" prolite .050 . Still waiting on the service manual dealer said two weeks.
Thanks Jim III

I might be wrong, but I've always been under the impression that 3/8 picco is actually .365, not .375 (which is why it needs a specific clutch drum sprocket) , and in any case, the tangs are different. Anytime I've seen a Picco chain on a standard bar, the chain rides really high on the bar tip sprocket. In the past Stihl had a specific Picco bar for in 16 and 20 inch for the 024/026, but dropped it. A few are still floating around. I'm not familiar enough with the oregon pro-lite series to comment on whether it is an exact match for the picco chain, or just happens to work. In the USA Stihl only sells the picco bars, and recommends picco chains for the 021/25/200t (and a few others) type mount. As I mentioned earlier, they did make a 25 inch bar for their mills that was Picco, but do not sell the LG series mills in the USA.


Any one else know anything about this?

 

[jhazel3]

UPDATE..........UPDATE ...........084lives

Ok got the manual checked the fuel filter checked the lines for leaks checked the pulse line had good pulse and no leaks check compression 110psi so a little low. would still only run with the choke on and had a lot of blow back from the carb. check muffler screen ok slight scoring of the piston (I saw a pic of somebody else's piston on this site that looked worse and they were still using it so i felt ok about it) but i thought ok let take it apart and see what was inside since I couldn't find anything else wrong. And the person I bought it from off EBAy said that the had just put crank seals in it. I took of the plastic and then the recoil cover and saw the flywheel bolt while tight I could see about three threads of the nut exposed. Being a car mech I know something was citty about that. you get a little sinking feeling in your gut and well there goes that great deal. Well with the flywheel off guess what there was some metal shavings and the keyway was destroyed in the middle and it had a burr where the metal had smeared over from the keyway and he had tightened it down with out removing the burr out of the taper so it held for a few minutes of running after his seal change (which by the way the seals are epoxied in on that side at least is that normal practice or some other cobble?) and it went out of time explaining the blowback out of the carb and its inability to suck in enough fuel being so retarded. so just to see if it would run right i used some locktite that is used for holding cylinder sleeves in I used a carbide burr and removed the burr fixing the taper and reassembled it back in time the taper should be able to hold it now from moving but it really needs a new flywheel and went and started it set the carb and it ran good all i had around to cut where some pallets so i made a couple of dozen cut in a minute the saw did not even sound different when cutting that small of wood I got a tipped over maple i will give it a shot in a few days but it seems to be great now I have to price a flywheel and see what that will set me back now. Do you think that i should put a new piston and rings in it to get the compression back up? I could not find even in the manual what the jug specs should be or the piston diameter. How do you decide when they our bad? do you hone every time you re-ring in these? I have a bore gauge what taper is ok what should it measure etc..... what numbers do you worry about? Sorry about long post .
Thanks for all the help I have Learned alot so far
Jim III

 

[Lakeside53]

110 is very very low... Are you sure you are using a compression guage that has a schrader valve right at the tip where it screws into the plug? Many do not and they will read very low.

No, seals should not be epoxyed in!

084 Cylinder bores are nikersil coated. The light honing at ring/piston change is only to deglase the bore. You won't be able to measure any bore taper unless the nikersil is shot. There are many threads on cylinder condition/honing etc.

The 084 cylinder is 60mm. The piston will be a couple of thou mm less. More then say 4-8thou mm on the piston and it will start to "slap" and maybe spit back though the carb. Your running only with the choke on is different - you need to pressure test the saw to figure out where you leak is that is stopping you sucking gas. If you really have only 110 psi compression, then all bets are off as the saw need a top-end rebuild anyhow.

Used flywheels are available - new flywheels are expensive- like $113. Don't mess with them - if it's been "stretched" onto the crank taper, it's really dangerous.

 

[jhazel3]

The saw does not spit back throught the carb now at all now it is in time... and it runs fine with the choke off and it is close to the one revolution out on the screws.yes the schrader is in the end It is a snapon compression tester I pulled it over several times till the compression peaked. I guess i will be buying a new flywheel. Thanks for the specs Where do you get them I was very suprised not to see them in the repair manual. or any info on piston or cylinder work specs. I am going to try to mill with it at the compression it is now and see if it is enought power. I am wondering why the he epoxied the seals in now? Do you think I should just try reringing it or how do you decide? Thanks Jim III

 

[Lakeside53]

The saw does not spit back throught the carb now at all now it is in time... and it runs fine with the choke off and it is close to the one revolution out on the screws.yes the schrader is in the end It is a snapon compression tester I pulled it over several times till the compression peaked. I guess i will be buying a new flywheel. Thanks for the specs Where do you get them I was very suprised not to see them in the repair manual. or any info on piston or cylinder work specs. I am going to try to mill with it at the compression it is now and see if it is enought power. I am wondering why the he epoxied the seals in now? Do you think I should just try reringing it or how do you decide? Thanks Jim III

If the cylinder is in decent shape after a light hone, re-ring it for sure. It will never run well at 110 - you may as well be milling with an 036

The "specs", which is just bore size, are on the IPL and in the front section of the service manual under "specifications" Do you have an IPL as well as the service manual?

Epoxying the seals is just a bad solution to get a leak to stop. No idea why this was done... only someone who never intended to fix the saw again would do such a thing... You may have serious trouble getting them out or another set to seal to seal again. You may have to burn them out, but...

 

[West Texas]

Burn out the seals? That's pretty good Andy. Was it you or Jeff that said most shop repairs are the result of homeowner repairs?