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windthrown

361 Junkie
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OK, I am coming off of my sabbatical and I have a thread here which I have had in the back of my mind all spring/summer/fall cutting thousands of trees here. This is basically a critique and/or suggestion for anyone over at one of the global Stihl saw factories. Oh and yah, bathe me in love, I need gobs of rep points from all my old friends (and enemies) here on the equipment forum! So here goes... (stirring the :censored:)

My daily users are: 210, 025, 290, and a 361. I sold my 460 and parted out a another 025 on Ebay last week. I have 3/4 of a 023 for parts, and a 260 in pieces. I have used most of the Stihl lineup and torn down, fixed, and bought and sold pieces of them on Ebay. I left this forum earlier this year after all the flap about posting about the 210 that I bought on Ebay (yes, I am personally responsible for changes on this forum, and I got infraction points from the mods :fart: and all that). I subsequently had to fix the 210 which led to my 210/023/025 collection and teardown expertice. Someone aptly dubbed it the "Saw From Hell". I still have it and it is running OK with donor parts.

Anyway... my suggestions for Stihl:

#1) Dump the 170. The 180 is a better saw and has real parts on it. That would reduce the Stihl lineup by one saw.

#2) Dump the 230 (or the 250). The 210 and 250 are far better selling saws and the 230 is stuck in no-man's land. Actually, maybe instead of dumping the 230, dump the 250 as that one seems to have tooo much power for the clutch and brake, and the clutch chamber gets hot and burns holes right through the oil pump and tank. I see a lot of 250's burned up this way on Ebay. I had one do that to me as well. Burned a hole right through to the oil pump and line. This seemingly does not happen on the 210. There are so few 230s out there that I do not know if they suffer the same effect from overheating. But the 250 dies a tragic death from too much torque trashing the clutch, burning out the needle bearings, or plain melting the oil tank. That would reduce the Stihl fleet by another saw.

#3) As for all of the above saws, maybe label them as "Stihl Lite(tm)" or something. They are not real Stihl chainsaws. They are chainsaws that you have to jam, pry and cram into place to get them apart and back together. They have all this plastic crap that does not seem to fit right, and you have to pry stuff on and off of them just to get to the air cleaner. My particular peeves are with the plastic cover on the 170/180, and handle connection on the 210/230/250 series. Shove, jam, cram, snap, break, swear. :cry:

#4) What is with the C lineup? What is that? A cheesey tooless chain tightener with plastic gears and teeth that are made to break apart? What is wrong with the tried and true dual side nut tightener system??? Dump the C models and reduce the Stihl saw models by about half.

Now, on to the real Stihl chainsaws.

#5) Here we need to inject the need for a real Stihl 30-35cc saw. OK. There are the 192T and 200T which are good arbor saws for tree work. There are also the newer 192 and 200 saws with rear handles. However they have the same drawbacks as the tree saws with the mufflers and they are really EXPENSIVE! I wanna baby 361, or a 261. Yah, that's what I want. A 261!

Or maybe I just need a Dolmar 410 instead?
:monkey:

#6) While we are on the subject of the 260, why is there a 260 model w/o a decomp button? MAKE all 260's with DECOMP BUTTONS. Do away with the 260 "regular" model. Make them all PROFESSIONAL model saws. Scrap one more saw from the Stihl lineup.

#7) I am not all that familiar with the 270/280 series of saw. I have seen few of them, and I used a 280 cutting about a cord of wood. I dunno why Stihl makes them. Seems that they overlap the 260 and 290/310/390 series of saws. Do away with them and reduce the lineup by another 2 saws. Or merge them with the 290/310/390.

#8) PUT A DECOMP BUTTON ON THE 290!!!! That damn 290 starter has gotten me into the habit of drop starting all my saws now. It is a lot easier to drop start a saw, yah know? Bad habit, yah yah, I know...

#9) Reduce the 290/310/390 series of saws to the 290 and 310. The 390 buyers should all be buying a 361 anyway. That would reduce the lineup by another saw. And I KNOW that many out there hate the 290 saw, even though it is the best selling saw that Stihl makes. Can't get rid of that now, can we? I also happen to like the 290. Makes a great backup saw for the 361, is a heck of a lot cheaper, and it will do nearly the same job. It is a tad heavy, but for bucking logs, it is fine.

#10) Lets see, the 460... needs to be a 461! That thing was gonna give me whitefinger with all the vibration. I would imagine that all the larger saws should be updated to xx1 series anti-vibe saws. However, the 441 may have been a mistake. Dunno about the rocking-horse spring setup or the strato. It runs damn smooooooth though, which is good. The loggers around here dearly love their 440s, and want them back in production. Try to use the 361 as a example for the 461, 651, 661, and 881.

Now, after all these suggestions are taken into account, Stihl will have a few Stihl Lite(tm) saws, no more C model saws, and about half the lineup as they have today. Which I think would be about right for the current market. Never mind the other saws that they are selling overseas, like the 341, the 240, 380, etc., etc. Stihl makes basically way too many saws in the same class, size and price range. :dizzy:


FEED ME SOME LOVE! Or rep.
 
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Welcome back !

Well I'll be dayuuuuum, welcome back, man !
I still remember that little stump trick you pulled on us, grrrrrrrrrrr:chainsaw:, but I'll forgive ya for now.

I am not able to comment in detail on your Stihl advice, since I do not own the saws you mentioned, but there's one big aspect you seem to forget. Most of the smaller saws, including the C line are meant for Mr and Mrs homeowner, and they have a tight budget, like toolless features, and they outnumber us sawfreaks by many millions.

Show me where the money is, and I'll make you a saw for it ! And they (Stihl) are dang right.
 
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Welcome back!!

Very good post also, even though I don't agree with everything...

...and they sure won't dump any best-sellers (in the US that is), like the 250 and 290, even though they really should.......
 
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So you are using homeowner models in a commercial capacity? Maybe they can put decomp buttons on the string trimmers too.
 
Uh oh.. Al Gore just won the Nobel prize.. no more gas engines.. Dump all the saws and just sell hand saws - oh, those are rebranded ARS.. Sorry Stihl, you are left with sales that barely compete with Husky ;)
 
Sounds like what you are saying is you want a Stihl like the Dolmar 410, you want a slimer line like the Dolmar, less vibration like the Dolmar, except for the 361 from Stihl?

Why dont you just keep the 361 and buy Dolmar for the rest of the saws?

:spam: :popcorn:
 
Number 11; .....

11) Continue copying saw features from Husky, and chain features from Oregon (might not be much more worth copying though)....:greenchainsaw:
 
Homeowner vs pro saws...

So you are using homeowner models in a commercial capacity? Maybe they can put decomp buttons on the string trimmers too.

Uh oh, the homeowner vs professional saw debate trap... again. Gads... have I not posted enough on this topic on AS??? I wanna decomp button on my 290, yessiree Bob. Maybe I will have to drill and tap one myself. And yah, I use a 210 and 250 for trimming and small diameter cutting, 'cause they are a lot lighter and nimbler than the 361 or a 290. Or the Olympic and Mac tanks that we have. Or the Brush Bandit. I am still looking for a good quality 8 lb., 30cc saw that is bulletproof, and I have yet to find one: pro, homie, or otherwise.

As for being in a commercial or professional capacity here? Well, we are homeowners, see? I am not a professional logger. Nor am I a professional landscraper or tree climber any more. I used to be a long time ago back in the early 80's. I am releasing and fire-proofing 5 acres of 400 year old growth oaks, and felling several thousand grand and doug firs that are 4 to 16 inches across. Out of them I am cutting the bases for firewood and piling the rest up in slash piles for burning. My girlfriend also used about 200 of the 8 inch size trees for a stream bank renovation project on the creek just above our property. This is 'spike mode' cutting, not something I do year round. Can't cut year round here anyway 'cause of fire restrictions in summer and deep mud in winter.

So yah, there is a call for using cheaper homie saws. I just wish there was more of a compromise between pro and homie saws, and not this rigid divide that seems to pervade the industry from the factory on down to the end users. Seems that the intermediate lines get squeezed out form both sides.
 
Sounds like what you are saying is you want a Stihl like the Dolmar 410, you want a slimer line like the Dolmar, less vibration like the Dolmar, except for the 361 from Stihl?

Why dont you just keep the 361 and buy Dolmar for the rest of the saws?

:spam: :popcorn:

I have thought about that. I may well sell my 210/025 lineup after this thinning project is done on Ebay. Tear them down and make more money on the parts. Nice model to sell on Ebay, as those parts fit a lot of saws. Then get the 260 working, or sell it and get a 410 for about $220. Then back to finding a 440/460 class saw for felling the bigger trees here. I dunno about the 7900... they were selling some good used Makita (same models) at Home Depot here for cheap.

As for Dollies, I looked at them and they are good saws. However, there are no Dolly dealers within 100 miles of me here. Some Makita sellers, but that is a limited line of Dolmar, and more expensive for the teal paint. I have oh, 30 Stihl and Husky (or both) dealers inside that range. The drawback on the 410 is the outboard clutch and parts are harder to get. I was standardizing on Stihl, becasue the girlfriend can start one model saw with the same type leaver on all the saws, and the gas and oil are all in the same place on the same sides. One huge advantage to Stihls that I have found. No brains required at the end of the day.
 
As for being in a commercial or professional capacity here? Well, we are homeowners, see? I am not a professional logger. Nor am I a professional landscraper or tree climber any more. I used to be a long time ago back in the early 80's. I am releasing and fire-proofing 5 acres of 400 year old growth oaks, and felling several thousand grand and doug firs that are 4 to 16 inches across. Out of them I am cutting the bases for firewood and piling the rest up in slash piles for burning.

Regardless of your vocation, if you use the saw much more than the typical homeowner you need a pro saw.
 
I was standardizing on Stihl, becasue the girlfriend can start one model saw with the same type leaver on all the saws, and the gas and oil are all in the same place on the same sides. One huge advantage to Stihls that I have found. No brains required at the end of the day.

Does your girlfriend know you talk of her in such glowing terms?
 
...
So yah, there is a call for using cheaper homie saws. I just wish there was more of a compromise between pro and homie saws, and not this rigid divide that seems to pervade the industry from the factory on down to the end users. Seems that the intermediate lines get squeezed out form both sides.

The MS270 and 280 is just that, but you seem to dismiss them - one of the things I do not agree with - rather scrap the entire 290-family....:greenchainsaw: :blob2: :blob2: :yoyo:

The 390 just is too close to the 361 here as well, and the others.......LOL
 
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