Need advice about tall pines close to house

[TNTreeHugger]

(b) they're too large and too close to the house to be removed without large machinery.

Bless your heart.
I think you should save your home, and your sanity, and find an arborist to remove the trees that are close enough to hit your house.

 

[RogerLemelin]

I can't imagine a scenario where an experienced, competent, licensed & insured tree service company, couldn't take care of your problem trees. What's the holdup?

I agree with your take on this. The holdup is the affordability of such a service, which could involve a crane.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

I agree with your take on this. The holdup is the affordability of such a service, which could involve a crane.

A climbing arborist won't need a crane.

 

[chainbrake]

. One guy came and said (a) there aren't enough trees for a logger to be interested in them and (b) they're too large and too close to the house to be removed without large machinery.

OK, so you need to actually find a a crew of skilled arborists who can climb and/or who have a crane or will hire a crane. I provided a link for you earlier. You live in the Northeast. There are lots of skilled arborists in the NE USA. You could not have looked very hard. If finding contractors/companies is hard for you, perhaps you need to find someone with secretarial skills, and pay him or her to find contractors for you.

Davey Tree Service is all over the US - even in your area. If they can't do it for you, they may be able to hook you up with someone who will.
https://www.davey.com/residential-tree-services/tree-removal/

What state do you live in? There may be someone at this site who can drop your trees for you.

You spend $10- 20 grand and you get your dangerous trees down... or you spend that money to build a room in your basement.
Then, when the storm hits, you have $50-100 grand in damage that you try to get the insurance company to payout to you even though you obviously knew that the trees are a hazard. You probably have a clause in your policy that says something about fore-knowledge of hazards. If you think finding a tree service company is hard, wait till you try to fight your own insurance company!

 

[BeatCJ]

One guy came and said (a) there aren't enough trees for a logger to be interested in them and (b) they're too large and too close to the house to be removed without large machinery.

I need a workable Plan C to tide me over until I can move. The most important thing at this point is safety. I've decided to build a shelter in my basement/garage, which is about 3/4 below ground (meaning, completely underground at the rear, sloping to open on the front, as in a walk-out garage). Shelters are common in states prone to hurricanes and tornadoes, so this seems like a rational plan, no?

The shelter would serve as a place to work and sleep during long wind events. This is a 95-year-old house so the unfinished basement is not particularly pleasant.

This is a two-story cape with an attic. Thus, for a tree to fall and hit me in the basement, it would have to go through the roof, the ceiling below the roof, the second floor, and the first floor---4 layers of rafters and flooring. Some questions, given that fact:

(1) The carpenter who is going to build the shelter states that I would always be safe sleeping on the first floor of the house. I don't believe this is true. I think there are plenty of reports of people being killed by trees on the first floor of a two-story home. Hence I conclude that a basement shelter is necessary. What do you think about this?

(2) The carpenter also says that since I would be 100% safe in the basement with NO shelter, the shelter is for comfort only and therefore it doesn't need to meet any particular wind standards and it could be made of half-inch plywood or even OSB. It would be like simply finishing a part of the basement, maybe 6' x 8', to make a suitable place to sleep and work. Is he right about the materials?

I personally wouldn't trust the word of one guy. Yes, I believe the log market is poor right now. In my mind, pine is a far less desirable species. How many trees are you talking about? I don't think I saw it stated.

In my opinion, you could very likely be safe in the basement with no additional work. I also believe you would probably be safe on the upper floor, on the side of the house away from the trees. You are not comfortable with your situation, so that is out. And that's fine, it's your home and peace of mind.

Finish out a room in your basement that you find comfortable, large enough that you have a work/living space that makes you happy. If you believe it needs reinforced, have it done. Yes, I think those sheet goods, in addition to your current living space are going to be sufficient. BUT! your peace of mind matters. I would suggest that the additional cost to consider wind loading issues, requiring that sheeting be glued and screwed to framing members would likely be relatively low in the cost of the entire project. Upgrading to heavier materials would be far less than the cost of labor. Make yourself happy.

 

[RogerLemelin]

Thank you, BeatCJ. I have about 20 trees around the house on 3 sides, so there is no place on the second story that's out of reach of the trees.

There is no labor cost for the shelter. The plan is to build a 2x4 studded box sheathed in plywood on all 6 sides, screwed to the 2x4s. A true hurricane or tornado shelter calls for two layers of 3/4" plywood. If the basement itself is already sufficient shelter, I think those standards are overkill.

 

[BeatCJ]

Thank you, BeatCJ. I have about 20 trees around the house on 3 sides, so there is no place on the second story that's out of reach of the trees.

There is no labor cost for the shelter. The plan is to build a 2x4 studded box sheathed in plywood on all 6 sides, screwed to the 2x4s. A true hurricane or tornado shelter calls for two layers of 3/4" plywood. If the basement itself is already sufficient shelter, I think those standards are overkill.

While not out of reach, what structure would be under the tree? If you have more than one load bearing wall, you may have enough structure.

OTOH, that's immaterial, you want additional strength.

Overkill is a nebulous concept. You are trying to prepare for worst case. If your home fails in a windstorm, what is worst case failure mode? Hurricane/Tornado failure mode (structure being moved/removed/collapse) is significantly different than falling tree (crush/penetrating limb) failure. For a falling tree, I would want that double layer on the ceiling, and might consider stronger joists. Maybe as much as 2x8 vs 2x4, depending on span. Plywood vs OSB, which has greater resistance to the cube twisting into a parallelogram? I know in building headers for doors and windows, OSB is actually a superior material, as long as the "grain" is oriented appropriately.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Cut the trees down and be done with it.

 

[BeatCJ]

And that is probably the only permanent answer, it sounds as if what he got for estimates put that out of his price range. There are other factors, too how many of the trees are on his property? Even on a larger lot (5.6 acres), I have trees of my neighbor's that will reach my house. All small now because it was logged about 17 years ago. If he takes his, does that reduce the group effect for those other trees? Getting someone to piece everything down may be a major project. I agree, and that would be my personal approach, it's not his preferred answer.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

And that is probably the only permanent answer, it sounds as if what he got for estimates put that out of his price range. There are other factors, too how many of the trees are on his property? Even on a larger lot (5.6 acres), I have trees of my neighbor's that will reach my house. All small now because it was logged about 17 years ago. If he takes his, does that reduce the group effect for those other trees? Getting someone to piece everything down may be a major project. I agree, and that would be my personal approach, it's not his preferred answer.

Don't know if you've read the entire thread, but I think all possible scenarios have been explored.
I thoroughly understand money being an issue and cause for hesitation, been there, done that myself.

Here's the thing... building a coffin to hide in in his basement for safety during a wind storm, won't save his house when a tree falls on and demolishes it.
Paying someone to cut down the trees now will be a lot cheaper than rebuilding - especially if, as someone else mentioned, the insurance won't pay.

If the money just isn't available, no way, no how, I'd have a real storm shelter built - outside of the house.
The point of the basement shelter is protection WHEN a tree demolishes the house. I wouldn't want to be buried underneath it.

 

[BeatCJ]

I did read the entire thread before I commented. On the times I have dealt with trees on houses, the resident has always been able to exit the home, around the collapsed parts of the structure. Those have been large Douglas Fir. I have done it three different times in my 36 year career.

I don't think he is trying to save his house, just preserve his peace of mind. Absolutely, the right thing to do is remove the hazard. Yup, you are right. I didn't comment on that because that has been explained, and alternatives to removal have been presented. I did mention that he shouldn't take the advice of one guy on the cost/value of removal.

However, he has asked for alternatives. I commented on that.

 

[RogerLemelin]

Paying someone to cut down the trees now will be a lot cheaper than rebuilding

Problem is that that conflicts with my plan to move. If it costs $20,000 to get the trees cut down, I need that money to buy a house or land. I feel like you would only put that much money into your property if you intended to stay there, you liked the house and property, and the house itself was worth that kind of investment. None of those is particularly true in my case. A 95-year-old house left standing in the middle of a deforested lot doesn't sound very appealing. Everyone who has seen my property loves the trees, so I figure I'm better off selling the property to someone who doesn't think they're a danger. Here's the photo I posted earlier. People are naive about pine trees, as I was when I bought this house. Plus lots of people don't believe the climate is changing and the wind is increasing. I guess they would be happy here on two forested acres.

 

[RogerLemelin]

I don't think he is trying to save his house, just preserve his peace of mind. . . . I did mention that he shouldn't take the advice of one guy on the cost/value of removal.

Peace of mind + I don't want to be killed by a falling tree, hence the shelter idea.

Given what has been said here, I guess I should talk to another logger.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I'm better off selling the property to someone who doesn't think they're a danger.

But, you know they are a danger because you said this...

I have about 20 trees around the house on 3 sides, so there is no place on the second story that's out of reach of the trees.

... and you are so afraid of the trees, you are wanting a hiding place in your basement.

You also said this

I spent all of 2024 looking for either a new house or land to build a new house on to get away from my pine trees. Neither is forthcoming. There is a severe shortage of houses for sale in my area, and even less land!

So it looks like you are stuck with the 95 year old house since even though someone might be "naïve" enough to buy it with all the pretty pines, you can't find a place to move to.

Right so far?

Roger, if there is a shortage of houses for sale in your area, you shouldn't have any trouble selling yours with, or without the trees... but it sounds like you're going to have to lower your expectations, or broaden your search radius.

Let me ask you a question: If the trees magically disappeared from the property over night, would you feel safe and be happy living in your home?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I was trying to remember all the details about why the trees are a hazard and found it here
https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...nes-close-to-house.374099/page-3#post-8245201

 

[RogerLemelin]

Let me ask you a question: If the trees magically disappeared from the property over night, would you feel safe and be happy living in your home?

I said previously that the trees aren't the only reason I want to move, but at this point they're at the top of the list. If they magically disappeared I would feel a less urgent need to move, more able to wait for the right house or land, and safe in my home. I work at home, by the way.

I believe the trees are a danger, people in this forum said they're a danger based on the photo I posted, and the logger said they're a danger. A number of other people think I'm exaggerating the danger. I'm still waiting for an answer about whether a tree can go through four layers of rafters and floors.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

Problem is that that conflicts with my plan to move. If it costs $20,000 to get the trees cut down, I need that money to buy a house or land. I feel like you would only put that much money into your property if you intended to stay there, you liked the house and property, and the house itself was worth that kind of investment. None of those is particularly true in my case. A 95-year-old house left standing in the middle of a deforested lot doesn't sound very appealing. Everyone who has seen my property loves the trees, so I figure I'm better off selling the property to someone who doesn't think they're a danger. Here's the photo I posted earlier. People are naive about pine trees, as I was when I bought this house. Plus lots of people don't believe the climate is changing and the wind is increasing. I guess they would be happy here on two forested acres.

I wish all this info had been in your original post- so I could've avoided wasting my time.

Depending on where you live, you may be required by law to have the trees taken care of before any buyer takes title. Even if that's not a legal requirement in your area, any buyer with a 120 IQ will make the tree removal a condition of sale- or their insurance company might.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Jeff
It was a beautiful day!

 

[chainbrake]

I wish all this info had been in your original post- so I could've avoided wasting my time.

Depending on where you live, you may be required by law to have the trees taken care of before any buyer takes title. Even if that's not a legal requirement in your area, any buyer with a 120 IQ will make the tree removal a condition of sale- or their insurance company might.

I would wager that many buyers with far less than 120 IQ would know that the big trees could pose a danger, would mention it to the realtor, and the realtor would say we could make that a condition for the sale. This is especially true if you have a shelter built into your basement.

If you have owned your home for a long time, and you don't have the cash, you can take out a bit of a mortgage.

If you were in my area, I could take an experienced climber over there with me, and he could take the tops off of a enough of them for me to work with what is left over. probably in a day or less as there is no building beneath the trees. Then, I could fell most of the trees in the space up hill behind a couple of tall stumps left to catch them from rolling into your house. I'd take the stand down and hire a logging truck for a day to haul them to a local sawmill to turn them lumber, or I'd strike a deal with someone with a portable mill. Where I live, if you have good trees that are down and ready for the mill, some portable sawyers will mill 2 boards for you in exchange for one board for them -no money exchanges hands. Then you can stack rough-sawn lumber (or timbers) and air dry it using stickers. After 2 years, pine sawn to 2.25" and less is usually dry enough for making siding - 4 years to make exterior trim. To make interior doors, trim, flooring or pine furniture, the wood would need some additional years drying indoors in a semi-heated bldg. Planing and kiln-drying are also options, but that could cost $150-$300 per tree's worth of lumber + shipping, and unless one has a buyer, the lumber would then need to be stored indoors.