Need help fellas

[bucksnbears]

My dad burns wood in an older stove. Not full-time but a few times a week.
He shuts off the air when the flue temp 2' above the stove top reached 300 degrees and let's it smoulder. Most times the pipe temp is at 125-150.
Trying to get it through to him that's a bad practice but he won't listen.
He's afraid of a chimney fire if it gets to hot (400) and I'm trying to get him to burn hot once a day.
He burns about 2 cord a year.
Can you guys set the record straight so I can show him this thread?
His name is Gary, thanks

 

[chucker]

1st. problem is not knowing the workings or conditions of the placement an material of! offering opinion's, can be like looking down a barrel of a loaded gun!

 

[rarefish383]

My old stove had a cat in it, you would get the temp up (600 I think) to heat up and activate the cat, then shut it down to about 400. It wouldn't smoulder, per say, but you couldn't see flames dancing in it either. Getting all the way down to 150, I would think any moisture left in the smoke would start to condense as soon as it got a foot or two above the stove, sticking to the chimney or liner, whatever he has. But, as chucker said, not knowing his stove, hard to make any recommendation other than general use info. I'd call a local stove shop and ask them what they think. They would probably have more impact on him than a bunch of guys all over the country, Joe.

 

[GVS]

My old stove had a cat in it, you would get the temp up (600 I think) to heat up and activate the cat, then shut it down to about 400. It wouldn't smoulder, per say, but you couldn't see flames dancing in it either. Getting all the way down to 150, I would think any moisture left in the smoke would start to condense as soon as it got a foot or two above the stove, sticking to the chimney or liner, whatever he has. But, as chucker said, not knowing his stove, hard to make any recommendation other than general use info. I'd call a local stove shop and ask them what they think. They would probably have more impact on him than a bunch of guys all over the country, Joe.

My opinion only:Regardless of the stove make or type,a 150* temp. in the stove pipe 2 feet above the stove is going to give problems eventually.How does the pipe and chimney look after the heating season is over?

 

[Marshy]

Its quite simple, one byproduct of combustion is H2O. Other byproducts are flammable gas which, not always get completely burned. In addition, the firewood has moisture in it that vaporizes. Even dry is still 10-15% moisture. Creosote is formed when that water vapor (and other condensable gas) cools enough to condense and create creosote. Keeping a high enough flue temperature will prevent creosote from forming. Operating the stove at that high of an output (specific for every stove based on several factors) may not be practical because you might not need that much heat all the time. Its highly recommended to burn a hot roaring fire for 30 minutes once or twice a day especially follow g a long low burn. This will dry out the creosote residue and it will not become a fuel source and cause a chimney fire.

If you already have creosote built up i would be causious about having a hot fire because you have all the fuel ready in the pipe.

 

[chucker]

all the wood I burn is as dry as possible! with that in mind with the beginning of each burning month I will religiously sweep the flue liner as I turn over the next calendar month! no need to have a flue fire!!

 

[Marshy]

all the wood I burn is as dry as possible! with that in mind with the beginning of each burning month I will religiously sweep the flue liner as I turn over the next calendar month! no need to have a flue fire!!

Who said there was a need?

You can't sweep creosote off, it's like tar. You have to dry it out before you can get it off. Only way to do that is add heat.

 

[chucker]

Who said there was a need?

You can't sweep creosote off, it's like tar. You have to dry it out before you can get it off. Only way to do that is add heat.

! no one! but its a way to keep flue fires down! maybe you have heard the saying " an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure" ?? lol

 

[TimberWolf530]

Also, he should control airflow before the fire (door air vents), not after (flue damper). Just doing it that way will help keep more heat in the flue. I agree with the other posts that with the temps he's keeping in the flue, creosote is inevitable. By never getting his flue hot, the problem will just get worse and worse. I would advise him to get it cleaned first, it's probably dirty enough to be dangerous at this point. Then start burning smaller hotter fires, instead of larger cooler ones. BTW, is this a free stander, or a chimney insert? If its an insert, does he have a liner, or is this just venting right into his chimney? Just the fact that the size of the chimney is too big for a stove can make the creosote problem even worse.

 

[LondonNeil]

buy a flue thermometer for him that is marked with creossote forming, desired, and too hot regions

 

[bucksnbears]

It's a free standing (Sierra) I think?
And yes, he chokes down the air intakes AND the flue damper!
What is the purpose of a flue damper anyway?

Thanks guys

 

[GVS]

It's a free standing (Sierra) I think?
And yes, he chokes down the air intakes AND the flue damper!
What is the purpose of a flue damper anyway?

Thanks guys

The damper slows down the heat leaving the heater.It should never be shut more than 45* from full open.Since it slows the exit of smoke/gases it slows the entrance of air through the draft air intake at the same time. Many installers and stove makers don't recommend installing a damper anymore.Many modern stoves have a baffle to slow the heat from flying up the flue

 

[Marshy]

I always ran a damper on my old Shenandoah. It just gives you extra control on heat output. It keeps all the heat from rolling up the chimney. My stove had no baffle so it works to keep the draft in check when it gets really cold and you start getting the stack effect.

I've never heard anyone say don't close it more than half closed. I'd say it's completely dependent on your stove setup. I generally had it half way closed and some days more. On a full reload you had to keep it open so not to stall the fire. If you chucked the fire box full on a small coal bed and closed the door before you had a good char and open flame going the fire box would fill full of combustible gas and ignite and puff back.

 

[GVS]

I always ran a damper on my old Shenandoah. It just gives you extra control on heat output. It keeps all the heat from rolling up the chimney. My stove had no baffle so it works to keep the draft in check when it gets really cold and you start getting the stack effect.

I've never heard anyone say don't close it more than half closed. I'd say it's completely dependent on your stove setup. I generally had it half way closed and some days more. On a full reload you had to keep it open so not to stall the fire. If you chucked the Firefox full on a small coal bed and closed the door before you had a good char and open flame going the Firefox would fill full of combustible gas and ignite and puff back.

Right,if you don't have a baffle you can probably get away with closing down the damper more than 45*/half way.

 

[rarefish383]

In the thread "Oak versus Pine" Mudd posted a link. In that link it says that chimney temps below 250 degrees start to form creosote. Take a look, I just skimmed it, Joe.

 

[muddstopper]

In the thread "Oak versus Pine" Mudd posted a link. In that link it says that chimney temps below 250 degrees start to form creosote. Take a look, I just skimmed it, Joe.

I just skimmed thru the article myself, but here is what I took from it. Creosote starts to condensate at around 250 degrees. Moisture in the wood will condensate around 212 degree, the temp of boiling water. If the wood is wet enough, the steam caused when burning will cool the chimney to below the 250 degrees required to keep creosote from forming. A chimney temp of 300 degrees would suggest high enough temps to prevent creosote, but the temps are being measured only 2 ft above the stove top and the stove pipe is only 125-150 degrees. I think there is a good possibility of a chimney fire from creosote build up given what has been posted of the current burning procedure. I would certainly want to do a visual inspection of the chimney before doing any kind of hot burn. After an inspection of the pipe, then burning a hot fire once a day should be sufficient to keep creosote build up to below flash point levels. I am not a expert so take my opinion for as just that, My Opinion.