Neighbor's Fence saved ...just barely

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I took on a job this past weekend that I've been putting off for over a year. I had a large (dead) brown birch on the side of my property, with more of it's weight hanging toward the downhill side, overhanging my neighbor's expensive iron fence. I got a rope around the tree about 20 feet in the air, and called over my two neighbors (both of whom are very strong - one used to be a semi-pro boxer). I had both of them on the rope, and they had the rope around another tree behind them as a backup, and then I proceeded to make my hinge cut about 2/3's through - I was aiming for half-way, but Husky got hungry.

That all went without event, so I went to the back side, after directing my "partners" to ratchet up the pulling. I'm cut in about 4", and the saw binds hard. It's not going anywhere, despite my pleads to the guys to pull harder! Oh boy, this is not good - the tree is falling the wrong way!

Next step, I leave the saw in the tree, and go join in on the "tug-o-war". The 3rd man makes a difference, and I feel the tree move just a bit - we ratchet the rope back around the "safety tree" to hold it there and I run back to the saw, out of the fall-line. I get back - sure enough the saw is loose - and I get cutting again - 5 seconds later, the tree is falling in the right direction!

Disaster averted!!!

For future reference, any thoughts on what a better strategy should have been?

Brad

 

[Weatherby]

Well I wont lecture about anything, but all I can say is your lucky.

 

[wak110]

Really going out on a limb here giving advice without seeing the job but did you consider taking some of the weight off the top so that you'd have less to pull?

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Originally posted by wak110
Really going out on a limb here giving advice without seeing the job but did you consider taking some of the weight off the top so that you'd have less to pull?

Good question - I almost addressed this point in the initial message so I will now. Three things prevented me from cutting the upper limb:
1) The upper limb was hanging over the neighbor's fence and dropping it so it avoided the fence would have been nearly impossible.
2) The limb was on the downhill side, which made it probably 30 feet in the air, so access via a ladder was risky.
3) The tree was dead, so the integrity of the limp was in question, ruling out a climb up the tree.

Before cutting started, I DID go back and raise the height of where I initially had the rope around the tree trunk from 15 feet to about 20. In hindsight, that was probably critical to our success. Leverage is our friend

Brad

 

[Doug01]

This could be another question in itself. The notch was 2/3 the way into the tree. Would a smaller notch have helped or only if wedges were used?

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Originally posted by Doug01
This could be another question in itself. The notch was 2/3 the way into the tree. Would a smaller notch have helped or only if wedges were used?

Possibly. I've never used wedges. I guess what you're suggesting is that they should go in behind the saw when it's making the final cut. You're correct that with the (too) deep hinge cut, I wouldn't have had room for that. The back side of the blade had just made it into the tree when it tilted back and bound up the saw.

Brad

 

[Newfie]

"The tree was dead, so the integrity of the limp was in question"

As was the integrity of the entire tree??? If the integrity of the tree was that much in question, your manly buddys could have pulled hard enough and snapped the tree leaving you staring up at the top plummeting back at you.

2/3 of the tree for a wedge is more than hungry, it is dangerous, ESPECIALLY with the tree leaning the wrong way. 1/3 of the diameter is rule of thumb. That would have allowed for use of wedges and a HINGE, which controls the fall of the tree.

20 feet is way to low for a line with manpower pulling, safely.


Go kiss your wife and hug your kids, you are lucky a real disaster didn't occur.

Get some proper training if you are going to use a saw like that and remember, expensive iron fences are cheap compared to a human life.

 

[Stumper]

Anchor the pull line high. Make your notch 1/3 of trunk diameter (1/3 up to half is ideal- over half is dangerous). Anchor the pull end of the pull line to something substancial (that will alow you to pull harder by hanging your weight on the rope. It also means that the tree won't drag the pullers across the yard -it may stretch the rope enough to bind a saw but will have a hard time actually falling the wrong way). Use a falling wedge.
For greater rope control you can utilize a Z rig ( a simple 3/1 block and tackle configuration-I still recommend tying off the end) or a Maasdam rope puller. Glad you didn't get hurt.

 

[John Ellison]

Look Up

Like Newfie was saying if the tree was dead,dead, then pulling or wedging can be very dangerous. Pulling puts a strain on the tree from the ground to the tie in and wedging sends a shock wave up the entire tree with every whack of the axe. Falling dead snags (in some parts of the country) is one of the biggest hazards a cutter faces. Look up Look up LOOK UP
John

 

[Doug01]

I've never used wedges, so this may seem stupid. Does the tree have to be of a certain size to utilize them? It always seemed that if I drove a wedge into my back cut, I would hit it with the saw when I finished the cut. I have always usec cable, chain and a come along (hand winch) to get the leaners to go where I wanted. After I notched I'd crank some. Start back cut, crank some. Maybe another cut before pulling all the way. Any help with the use of wedges is appreciated.

Doug

 

[Stumper]

It is hard to use wedges on small trees (say under 10") They are easy to use on trees over 20" (since you have approx 7" in the notch 4" in the bar and chain and a couple of inches of hinge you still have 7 inches to drive a wedge into. Bigger trees allow even more space. In the 10"-20" range you have options such as setting your wedges from the side (Going in parrallel to the bar) or (my preference) starting a wedge as soon as the bar is deep enough but not trying to drive it until your backcut is about finished. Stop cutting when the hinge is about the right thickness-the barely started wedge should keep the backcut from settling back on the bar. Extract the saw and drive the wedge until the tree starts its fall.

 

[John Ellison]

Wedging

On the really small ones you can make the back cut first, drive the wedge in then take out the face , then wedge tree over. Being mindful of the hinge wood and dont wedge too much until the face is cut out or its liable to go over without it.
John

 

[tony marks]

im a little like that ,altho i use wedges....
ive just not been successful at getting much result from wedges... now i can put a tree where i want it ,. but if ones just wrong,about the only thing that works for me is the center plunge cut, next to the hinge. then use wedges to make it harder for the tree to go wrong on me.
a good rope and power winch are my favorite methods . up to a certain size . after that i just pass on it ,if my rigging isnt big enough.

 

[wak110]

Amen Tony! As I get older and wiser I've learned to pass on a lot of them. And I can't even remember the last time I said
"WATCH THIS"

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Stumper
Anchor the pull line high. Make your notch 1/3 of trunk diameter (1/3 up to half is ideal- over half is dangerous). Anchor the pull end of the pull line to something substancial (that will alow you to pull harder by hanging your weight on the rope. It also means that the tree won't drag the pullers across the yard -it may stretch the rope enough to bind a saw but will have a hard time actually falling the wrong way). Use a falling wedge.
For greater rope control you can utilize a Z rig ( a simple 3/1 block and tackle configuration-I still recommend tying off the end) or a Maasdam rope puller. Glad you didn't get hurt.

Perfectly said, but instead of tieing the rope off and using bodyweight to pull make a come-a-long out of the anchored rope to increase pulling power exponetial. Or, use a pulley, or maybe a vehicle. Remember - Pain, Death or Destruction can come mighty quick!

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Appreciate all the feedback. I actually walked out back tonight and re-reviewed the situation. There's certainly some details I've left out, but I'm convinced I never placed myself or co-workers in harm's way. The fence, that's an entirely different story - it was clearly in harm's way! Based upon the natural growth angle of the tree, it was quite clear which way it was going to fall if "things went bad", and I never placed myself in that shadow.

I did have the tree tied off to a large oak tree (in the direction of the desired fall), before a single cut was made. In hindsight, I should have run another line to the quad (well out of fall range), and used that for some more pulling power. Hell, my girlfriend could have handled that chore!

Brad

 

[geofore]

shadow

You are at risk standing under a dead tree. Look up and see what might fall on you before you start. Tie your rope higher next time, do you know how to use a throwball? If the limb was only thirty feet you should have been able to throw a weight on a string over it tied your rope to the string and pulled your rope over the limb and back down to tie it off at a point just above your cut giving you ten more feet of leverage. Then go over to your buddies and all pull on the rope once to see what the tree will do before you start your cut. If the top didn't fall out and the limb didn't break you should be good to make your cut. Leverage is a good thing but you can give the rope a good tug before you start to see if anything is going to shake loose before you start.

 

[glens]

Being not willing to pass up a good opportunity for a physics-type thought, I'm wondering how a rope passed over a limb and tied to the stem at some point below that could possibly provide any more leverage than the rope simply being fastened at that same upper point.

If you go fifty feet up and pull on seventy-one feet of free rope, the rope you're pulling will be at a forty-five degree angle.  If you're pulling with two hundred eighty-five pounds of force there will be a downward component of two hundred pounds as well as a sideways component of the same force.  How does passing the rope nearer the bottom of the tree and fastening it there change that in any way whatsoever?

Glen

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Wedges and a hammer are a ???? cheap investment, kinda amazes me that youve never used them. Sure you might chew the odd one out with the saw but for the 5$ you loose compared to a bad felling direction isnt worth thinking about. Go on holiday, spend a day with loggers working on hill country, well worth it.

 

[geofore]

physic

If you tie in at 20' and the limb was at 30'. You used a ladder to get to 20' or climbed to tie in and your feet left the ground. A throwball to 30' and tie in above your cut and your feet never left the ground. Which is safer? I wish it were that simple. What is the weight of the tree above 20'? below 20'? above 30'? below 30'? What is the torque on the hinge from 20'? from 30'? With a throwball I would think he could get to 50' and his feet would not leave the ground, if he had a crotch to hit but then with a dead tree the higher you go the less you can trust the tree will be safe or hold in one piece. It does make a difference how much of the weight of the tree is below your Tie In Point (20' or 30'). Any way you look at it I still don't know what kind of saw he was using. This is the Chainsaw forum or did I go off topic?