Neighbor's Fence saved ...just barely

[glens]

I guess I was conflating the statement about more leverage and the notion stated earlier about being easier to pull someone over with a rope fastened one way or the other.

I see now where your [geofore] statement about more leverage was geared toward having the rope higher in the tree; not simply as a result of having it fastened back down near the bottom (as the earlier post would imply) as opposed to using a slip not to fasten it at the top.

Obviously, comparing the perception of ease in pulling a <i>person</i> over has next to nothing in comparison with doing so to a tree (or any other object which does not have joints and muscles all along the way from top to bottom).

Glen

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Since the question was asked, I was using my nearly new Husky 353 with a 18" bar. I could have gone a little higher with my rope, but not much, as the trunk split into two limbs just above where I did have the rope placed.

All things considered, it was a challenging situation, but I think I did a reasonably good job and was as safe as I reasonably could be. Things I'll think about next time:
1) More leverage (go higher in the tree)
2) Have wedges available
3) Be much more careful on the depth of the hinge cut
4) Two ropes - one pulled by truck or quad

Brad

 

[chainsawworld]

this is a prime example of "LUCKY"

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by glens
Being not willing to pass up a good opportunity for a physics-type thought, I'm wondering how a rope passed over a limb and tied to the stem at some point below that could possibly provide any more leverage than the rope simply being fastened at that same upper point.

If you go fifty feet up and pull on seventy-one feet of free rope, the rope you're pulling will be at a forty-five degree angle.&nbsp; If you're pulling with two hundred eighty-five pounds of force there will be a downward component of two hundred pounds as well as a sideways component of the same force.&nbsp; How does passing the rope nearer the bottom of the tree and fastening it there change that in any way whatsoever?

Glen

Glens, on the previous page Brian gave good examples why securing the rope at the trunk provides better leverage. I allways get funny looks whenever I do that, but I don't care. When push comes to shove, and you need all the leverage possible, DO IT!

 

[glens]

All I'm saying is there's no possible way for leverage to be different.&nbsp; 200 lbs. of sideways pull at 50 feet high (as per my previous example) provides 10,000 ft-lbs. [or perhaps lb-ft, there's a difference and I sometimes - like now - forget which is proper to use] of leverage and that's all it will ever be.&nbsp; It doesn't matter if the rope is slip-knotted at the top or passed back down the stem and tied somewhere lower.&nbsp; In fact, doing the latter will require more rope being pulled for the same effect since it will stretch so much per foot and you have more feet to stretch.

I understand the bit about it being easier to fetch the rope afterward when it's tied low, and all that, but my point is there's no leverage benefit derived from doing so.&nbsp; There cannot be.&nbsp; The method <i>might</i> help when trying to pull over a pile of bricks or something; maybe, if the rope angle were kept near vertical.

Glen

 

[sedanman]

I think I have to agree with glens on this. Until someone proves that you get more leverage the other way, BTW pulling a human over is NOT the same as pulling down a tree, humans don't have roots, tree don't have knees, hips, etc, etc.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Is that a pro, or con, Treeco?

 

[TREETX]

Originally posted by DPDISXR4Ti
certainly some details I've left out, but I'm convinced I never placed myself or co-workers in harm's way.

You were also convinced that this half ass dangerous removal techinque was the only option available. You also thought you needed a ladder to access the 30' limb.

In the future, be honest with yourself when you are in WAY over yer head.

.02

For some reason, I can hear Tom saying,"Widows and orphans..."

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Originally posted by TREETX
You were also convinced that this half ass dangerous removal techinque was the only otion available. You also thought you needed a ladder to access the 30' limb.

In the future, be honest with yourself when you are in WAY over yer head.

Okay, so how would YOU have done it? Cutting and/or roping the limb 30' up was never really a consideration since it hung over the stationary fence. I should not have even mentioned the part about the ladder accessing the limb, as that was never a consideration either. Even with everything that's been said here, and the benefit of hindsight, I think I would generally proceed down the same path given the same situation.

FWIW, since I don't believe I ever stated this, the overall height of the tree was about 30'. Where the limb hung over the fence it was also about 30', owing to the fact that the ground level dropped off a good 6-8 feet at that point.

Brad

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by DPDISXR4Ti


For future reference, any thoughts on what a better strategy should have been?

Brad

Sure. Hire a professional.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Re: Re: Neighbor's Fence saved ...just barely

Originally posted by netree
Sure. Hire a professional.

I'm afraid my opinion of "professionals", in most any category, is somewhat negatively biased. I know there are "real" professionals out there who can capably do a given job better than me. Unfortunately however, I often find that I can do a better job than a "pro" as long as I take my time and quality counts more than getting the job done quickly.

Brad

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Sorry, was not my intent to insult. Although I might add, some seem to have no issue taking shots at me. But that's okay, I can take a hit.

Regardless, I strongly suspect most, if not all, of the pro's contributing here fall into the "real pro" category, and actually give a darn about the quality of the work you do. If so, you should recognize the negative comments don't apply to you.

Peace,

Brad

 

[NeTree]

Re: Re: Re: Neighbor's Fence saved ...just barely

Originally posted by DPDISXR4Ti
I'm afraid my opinion of "professionals", in most any category, is somewhat negatively biased. I know there are "real" professionals out there who can capably do a given job better than me. Unfortunately however, I often find that I can do a better job than a "pro" as long as I take my time and quality counts more than getting the job done quickly.

Brad

If your opinion is that negatively biased, you haven't worked with real professionals then.

Quality is always important; so is getting the job done quickly AND safely. A true professional can balance all three.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Neighbor's Fence saved ...just barely

Originally posted by netree
If your opinion is that negatively biased, you haven't worked with real professionals then.

Quality is always important; so is getting the job done quickly AND safely. A true professional can balance all three.

I agree 100% with everything you've said, although I have on occassion worked with real professionals. My neighbor, a stone mason, comes to mind. He built a 150' retaining wall for me that practically has an underground river running through it. Not a chance I could have correctly completed that project, just as I'm sure there are trees that would require a professional arborist to take down.

Brad

 

[TREETX]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
The fact that you are arguing over this proves how little you know about treework. Go back to your coffee table books with pictures of big trees and chainsaws, leave the real work to those of us who know what we are doing.

Kinda says it all

 

[TREETX]

For future reference, any thoughts on what a better strategy should have been?

Brad

Cut and pray is not a viable method in my book.

 

[Stumper]

DPDISXR4Ti, You started this thing off telling how you pulled off this removal "barely" and asked for advice. Everything was going fairly well in this thread until you responded to the advice saying that you really did fine ?!?. That got some guys going because you seem to not be listening. "Barely" is not fine. Missing an obstacle by inches when missing by inches was the plan all along is one thing (called skill). Making an improper notch, binding your saw, almost losing the tree 180* to the intended direction of fall are not descriptions of a "fine" operation or one that "was pretty much the only way to do it". You are talking to guys who routinely climb trees and remove limbs over fragile obstacles. Guys who routinely make trees fall precisely where they want them to-even trees that desperately "want" to fall in other directions. When you started the thread you seemed to be in touch with reality. Some people were pretty blunt and critical-I'm sorry but that is the style of some. You seem to have become defensive and decided to rewrite your own history. Be thankful that you pulled it off and respect yourself for the wisdom to ask for advice. -don't abandon the good sense that prompted you to ask how you could have done things better.:angel:

 

[caryr]

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I don't want to drag this out too much - your points are well taken, and I've re-read some of the early posts that had some good content. In my own defense, what I will say is that several of the reasonably correct measures I DID take, in fact, CAUSED the outcome to be the desired one. These include:

1) Anchoring the rope to a fixed object before a single cut was made.
2) Fixing the rope reasonably high in the tree
3) Getting plenty of assistance for pulling before a single cut was made

I'm not suggesting I did everything right, but a "buffoon wielding a chainsaw" clearly would have been unlucky with this project and would be buying his neighbor a new fence right now.

You guys take your craft seriously and that's to be commended.

Anyone have any recommendations for reading material? "Dummies guide to chainsaw use" perhaps???

Brad