New chain vs sharpened.

[Bwildered]

You have to read between the lines a little bit there bud. With words and frases like "invitation" and "being in the loop"

Its not even a hidden job market. Its spesalized. When Clean harbours from PA had Seismic work in the states all the mulcher operators and their mulcher push get the call from Clean harbors in Canada to go cut the grids because US people didn't have the expirence. They were 10 yrs behind. Not in the technology but in expirence or lack of
in this case. Anybody that is anybody is going to be known in industry.

Even if Clean harbors didn't get the job. every one will know who is doing what and where and their operators ....or some will still get hired.

You didn't have to prove "Ganger" as a job title to me? You live there...I don't! why would I dispute it? I wouldn't! Your position is beyond ridiculous.

The richest companies on the face of the planet that 'letter head' our (Emergency Response Plan) (ERP)
with all the key players titles with phone #'s
project manager, supervisor, drill push , mulcher push, cat push, slash push ect. Nuff said on the matter don't you think?
(it rhetorical^^)

When there is only one line in twenty that is understandable it becomes authentic frontier gibberish, you've obviously got some good stories to tell, put yourself in the readers perspective who aren't in the region or privy to a site specific emergency plan or closed industry terms, anybody can talk slang or a language which is unintelligible to others, but it serves no purpose but to distinguish ones self in not the best way & as you have seen people switch off. General common terms are more than adequate, ganger is just one of them & nothing much to get hung up on, any of those terms are readily explained on the interweb
, with no questions being asked of the author, yours though are non existent on the web , so you have to be asked to explain them , maybe it creates some sort of dependence somehow?

 

[Del_]

What in the F* does the half time show has to do with Football?
Maybe you can get your money back?
More snide remarks from the people won't or can't contribute a dam thing. that's 3 of you so far. This is your second post directed to me and the first time I was on topic? You have a problem with me? obviously.

I graded this thread of the second page after it was dead for a day. Like a little kid that stops playing with a toy....you pick it up and it's important again. Anytime you want to start the second half stud? Lead the way. Ill take your eleged 30+ yrs and school you azz pal. You want to take a dislike to me...I'll give you a dam reason.

.Put up or shut Del ...you choice?

Very few are going to find your wonderful words of wit hidden here in a chain sharpening thread. Not that it is much of a loss.......so carry on!

 

[Westboastfaller]

When there is only one line in twenty that is understandable it becomes authentic frontier gibberish, you've obviously got some good stories to tell, put yourself in the readers perspective who aren't in the region or privy to a site specific emergency plan or closed industry terms, anybody can talk slang or a language which is unintelligible to others, but it serves no purpose but to distinguish ones self in not the best way & as you have seen people switch off. General common terms are more than adequate, ganger is just one of them & nothing much to get hung up on, any of those terms are readily explained on the interweb
, with no questions being asked of the author, yours though are non existent on the web , so you have to be asked to explain them , maybe it creates some sort of dependence somehow?

point noted.
No matter what...I'm going to have my own language and my own sand box to an extent. Much to do with my training and were Ive cut. Nobody was saying terms like "compression wood" "tension wood" "top bind...side bind"
before I was on here. At least not that I EVER heard. Now everybody is familiar and says it. I stood out like a sore thumb
when I'm explaining about falling I want people to fully understand but I have a completely different image in my head that most every one else will have. You mentioned something about " just don't use you tip" ...or in a bore cut ...you recently said.

I has 12/13 purposes of using a bore cut falling on the west coast (And I can name them...but explaining what I do is the hardest thing I have ever wrote about). Everything else is easy.(maybe because I care so much less as there is no pressure to 'come across.

I'm used to being ailianated in that sense. I bore mainly for back leaners under 36" bar size mainly. average people on here can't make sense of that? Sometimes it's highly advance stuff and a need to know bases.

Before I try to explain I know I am already beat as 'we' have two different mental images.

I guess if I can't explain what is most important to me then I supose the rest is just the rest. And why not have a little mystique Eh?

 

[Westboastfaller]

Very few are going to find your wonderful words of wit hidden here is a chain sharpening thread. Not that it is much of a loss.......so carry on!

As I write upon this Wall
I roll my §hit in little balls
Del? ...you read these Walls of wit
so eat those little balls of §hit

 

[Westboastfaller]

A have never noticed that "a chain cuts better after its been sharpen a few times?
That's news to me? including filing it out of the box?


To say it gets better is to say it 'never was'



edit
oops
to be continued

 

[Westboastfaller]

I will use a new file and discard it just on the gullet. One side is usually much higher on most chain I used.
A think that eliminates what @Philbert had heard in regards to being ground before assembly? or does it? never know on some chain. Have you ever seen the show called "How its made" I have.
I don't dress a new chain in the bush. not on the coast falling I won't. I always have extra one sharpen on hand if its raining hard or I bend one I just do it in camp with a bar in a vice.
Generally file a 36" skip in the bush very fast. same teeth as a 24" full house
about. Trainees that hand file probably should do them at camp. One trainee told me he files in the bush because he gets paid for it? That's probably not a great attitude while learning.
apart from that. I see riggers sharpen a 72" bars on a 880.
buckeman hand file 42" fast between loads. not an issue.

IDK why that is weird to @Skeans ?
You Don't see round filing in true west coast falling in the states but some guys still tri-file. in the bush? Its a dying bread as is all hand filing on the coast.

 

[Bwildered]

point noted.
No matter what...I'm going to have my own language and my own sand box to an extent. Much to do with my training and were Ive cut. Nobody was saying terms like "compression wood" "tension wood" "top bind...side bind"
before I was on here. At least not that I EVER heard. Now everybody is familiar and says it. I stood out like a sore thumb
when I'm explaining about falling I want people to fully understand but I have a completely different image in my head that most every one else will have. You mentioned something about " just don't use you tip" ...or in a bore cut ...you recently said.

I has 12/13 purposes of using a bore cut falling on the west coast (And I can name them...but explaining what I do is the hardest thing I have ever wrote about). Everything else is easy.(maybe because I care so much less as there is no pressure to 'come across.

I'm used to being ailianated in that sense. I bore mainly for back leaners under 36" bar size mainly. average people on here can't make sense of that? Sometimes it's highly advance stuff and a need to know bases.

Before I try to explain I know I am already beat as 'we' have two different mental images.

I guess if I can't explain what is most important to me then I supose the rest is just the rest. And why not have a little mystique Eh?

I have no idea what a top bind is & similar goes for a side bind. I'll think you will find I said to finish with the tip & that was in cross cutting .
You can write anyway you like, just give us an addendum of terms so it makes sense, otherwise the mid game entertainment becomes too psychedelic to understand .

 

[Bwildered]

Wasn't aiming anything at anyone spin us a yarn from days gone by I'm all ears.

Like the time the construction manager put a 977 loader into a lake when the ice gave away, or a diesel mechanic got a Nodwell bellied out in a melt stream 80km from the camp, or a pilot destroyed an AS350b when it toppled onto its side because he landed on a melt stream, or when someone left the handbrake off on a quad & it took off down a mountain & finished up 5km away destroyed when it ran into a cliff at an unknown rate of knots, or when a helicopter pilot dropped a aluminium boat from 2000 meters because it started spinning out of control on a long line?

 

[Westboastfaller]

I have no idea what a top bind is & similar goes for a side bind. I'll think you will find I said to finish with the tip & that was in cross cutting .
You can write anyway you like, just give us an addendum of terms so it makes sense, otherwise the mid game entertainment becomes too psychedelic to understand .

Top bottom or side bind is IDENTIFYING where the cut is going to close basically which 'side' is getting compressed and which side is getting pulled and why. natural free weight of the tree or falling force into other trees creating 'side bind' pressure? or other tree laying on it.

right I was thinking that the other day it would be easier for me to add 'alphabetical glossary' in my profile. It would be Like learning another language maybe .

Bucking you say.
maybe I misunderstood...A thought you said in closing that there was never any reason to ever use the tip? I guess it's the mental image Imprinted again.
providing the wood was of small stock I suppose.

 

[Bwildered]

Top bottom or side bind is IDENTIFYING where the cut is going to close basically which 'side' is getting compressed and which side is getting pulled and why. natural free weight of the tree or falling force into other trees creating 'side bind' pressure? or other tree laying on it.

right I was thinking that the other day it would be easier for me to add 'alphabetical glossary' in my profile. It would be Like learning another language maybe .

Bucking you say.
maybe I misunderstood...A thought you said in closing that there was never any reason to ever use the tip? I guess it's the mental image Imprinted again.
providing the wood was of small stock I suppose.

I think I'm getting the side bind thing , it sounds like the compression & tension forces longitudinally across the hinge in directional falling away from the lean.
I can't remember saying anything for a long while about using boring cuts to fall trees, I could be wrong & it wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Jethro 2t sniffer]

Like the time the construction manager put a 977 loader into a lake when the ice gave away, or a diesel mechanic got a Nodwell bellied out in a melt stream 80km from the camp, or a pilot destroyed an AS350b when it toppled onto its side because he landed on a melt stream, or when someone left the handbrake off on a quad & it took off down a mountain & finished up 5km away destroyed when it ran into a cliff at an unknown rate of knots, or when a helicopter pilot dropped a aluminium boat from 2000 meters because it started spinning out of control on a long line?

Far out out man that's some interesting stuff right there

 

[Westboastfaller]

I think I'm getting the side bind thing , it sounds like the compression & tension forces longitudinally across the hinge in directional falling away from the lean.

Lets go back to a bucking scenario to start and I can simplify most of it then I'll address this above.

If the saw gets pinched in the bottom of the log then it has bottom bind if this happens at the top it's top bind.

When possible we can read the bind
before hand in relation to the cut location.

Some are obvious and some you will need a sequence of bucking cuts and techniques to establish if its top or bottom bind.


Straight forward stuff^^

Firstly, Its an identification thing before the 'action' but you may need saw action to identify it.

Side bind:
A tree that may be fallen or standing.
Generally in the forest. This will be caused by a falling tree wedging between mainly two or more trees creating side bind.
Or standing tree with pressure from another tree or object or a leaning against another tree or object

So you have a leaning tree against
a tree then as a result the *situation has side bind. If I fall the tree with the weighted lean from an uprooted tree
then MY situation MAY NOT ( in a near perfect world) have side bind.
One way gives MY situation side bind and cutting with the ACTUAL side bind creates a barber chair potential.

In actual fact. if you bore it there is a good chance of getting pinched still.
(Example for explanation purposes)
and some regions with same hardwood species
and size with a similar scenario will 'never' barber chair. Fast and longer annual growing areas
will 'everytime'

In your example you are also right
Your are talking about a primary
forward lean and a secondary side
lean. On a heavy lean with a forward lean fall you will have side bind in your compression area. true.
They are not good ones to bore. 45°+
between the leans is best if you have the room. Too much side notch angle and you will get caught in the bottom
(which is technicaly the bottom side now)

Its a little more in depth thana saws pinch points.

 

[holeycow]

And if buddy reads that all bad one day you’re bouncing the tough mutha and his broken leg five miles down the line on your quad.. and then bouncing him in your pickup down some other lines and some rough roads eventually to a highway and finally arriving at the hospital about three hours later.

Back when we doubled on quads and were still opening up the country way back in there

You know what? That was a trike, not a quad.

Back when we tripled on trikes..

 

[Westboastfaller]

Crazy! some company's like Veritas, band quads all together. No doubling anywhere.
Veritas had us all in busses one year on a heli portable job in Tumbler Ridge when we stayed in Chetwynd ...I may have had something to do with it to. I got hire back the next year. Got some dirty looks walking on the bus because guys couldn't get a truck rental.
They asked me if I was going to be on my best behavior that year? Same Project manager Dave Thompson?
Blaze...Paul Clement ?
Larry McDanald was coordinator

Dave fired 130 people the yr before (including me...wrongfully ..I may add. and the next yr nobody. His best season in 35 yrs. He called my partner and I "easy money" We raked in the cash. good fun. I hadn't even finished my 'winter work'...falling Mountain Pine Beetle sites for a helicopter deep in the Rockies on the Alberta side. He still had about 10 days left when they shut for a week as we all had the worst flew I could ever remember. It was probably almost may? Remember getting out of the heli next to a big designated burn site where a 1000 tree got burnt overnight and I steped out into the snow I thought?
Water underneath was up to my thighs.

Nice way to start your day.

I went back to BC and started a Turn-key job for Veritas.

That was 2008. The rest of the world was crashed out. Logging was done. Lots of guys went belly up.

That was the last of the heli portable Seismic
2005 -2008 it was steady

 

[holeycow]

That was a bad year. Similar to the one we’re in right now...

Veritas fired lots of people wrongfully. Dicks. Lots of pompous dicks in that outfit. Especially at the top.

 

[Bwildered]

Lets go back to a bucking scenario to start and I can simplify most of it then I'll address this above.

If the saw gets pinched in the bottom of the log then it has bottom bind if this happens at the top it's top bind.

When possible we can read the bind
before hand in relation to the cut location.

Some are obvious and some you will need a sequence of bucking cuts and techniques to establish if its top or bottom bind.


Straight forward stuff^^

Firstly, Its an identification thing before the 'action' but you may need saw action to identify it.

Side bind:
A tree that may be fallen or standing.
Generally in the forest. This will be caused by a falling tree wedging between mainly two or more trees creating side bind.
Or standing tree with pressure from another tree or object or a leaning against another tree or object

So you have a leaning tree against
a tree then as a result the *situation has side bind. If I fall the tree with the weighted lean from an uprooted tree
then MY situation MAY NOT ( in a near perfect world) have side bind.
One way gives MY situation side bind and cutting with the ACTUAL side bind creates a barber chair potential.

In actual fact. if you bore it there is a good chance of getting pinched still.
(Example for explanation purposes)
and some regions with same hardwood species
and size with a similar scenario will 'never' barber chair. Fast and longer annual growing areas
will 'everytime'

In your example you are also right
Your are talking about a primary
forward lean and a secondary side
lean. On a heavy lean with a forward lean fall you will have side bind in your compression area. true.
They are not good ones to bore. 45°+
between the leans is best if you have the room. Too much side notch angle and you will get caught in the bottom
(which is technicaly the bottom side now)

Its a little more in depth thana saws pinch points.

With our native hardwood trees, we don't fall those that are leaning into others, they will just get hung up & have to be winched off the stump, then it's really dangerous to fall trees that are being leant on by others, if the leaning tree doesn't kill you when it slides down the bole of the one you're falling falls , then a limb can be ripped off overhead when they separate & kill you that way, either way we leave them & it isn't worth dying for a stick of timber.

 

[Overkill338]

New Oregon EXL chain



Same, but hand filed more aggressive angles on the chain.

 

[Del_]

New Oregon EXL chain



Same, but hand filed more aggressive angles on the chain.

That is impossible!

Everyone knows that new chain out of the box is already optimized for every possible powerhead, bar length and wood combination.

 

[mountainlake]

New Oregon EXL chain



Same, but hand filed more aggressive angles on the chain.

Your 3rd cut when you got in the power band (no screaming) with the new chain was right at 10 seconds same as your hand filed chain. Little if any difference. Let it scream and its going to cut slower as proved by your vid. Steve

 

[Bwildered]

I personally don't & never have sharpened a new unused chain, I haven't got the ability to foresee how a chain will cut before I use it, after a tankful of fuel I'll have an idea on how much to take off the depth gauges, but I won't touch it untill the chain needs sharpening, which will be not long after the first tank of fuel or sooner if it hits the ground on a crosscut or dirt in a pipe dragged in by termites. If I was paying for someone's time and they did it I'd give them one warning to stop wasting my money.