new climbing styles vs. old

[Tree Machine]

I can see it in my head; the prussik would be on the tree side of the captive eye. Pulling the rope through the captive eye would force the coils up against the captive eye. Weighting the rope would engage the hitch. Pretty cool.

Once the hitch is engaged, that is, constricting the flipline, it seems that to adjust further in you'd be pulling against the force of the friction being created by the hitch. I'm imagining resistance on adjusting in, but with excellent, non-slippage when weighting the flipline.

Resistance while trying to adjust in would get old quick.
If you had to loosen the coils whenever you wanted to adjust in, or just tolerate the resistant from the force of the coils, it makes for a tricked out system, but less than ideal, practically speaking. Really, though, I don't know how much resistance it would offer, but there has to be some. That's just the nature of a distel. A VT would collapse better, but you trade for excess slop in a system where things should be exact and precise

Having to do any more than one single, one-handed motion to adjust in or out, or EVER having to adjust your adjuster is more work than necessary. I'm of the 'time is money' school.

That's a problem I had with this setup below: It was a two-way rope grab. I liked the swivel aspect but had to physically reach across and hold the adjuster in mid-position and use the other hand to pull rope and adjust into the tree. I've tried a number of useful adjusters, this was not one of them. I imagine this piece has practical uses, just not on a flipline. It gave me the same headaches I used to have using prussics on flipline (though I've honestly never actually tried the cool prussik-on-flipline with a captive-eye biner).

 

[beastmaster]

Boy, I'm learning a lot of cool stuff from this thread. I don't know if I'm old school, but I am old. It's only been in the last several years(when I got a computer)that I start useing new techniques. I like any thing that'll make job easier and safer. I now use a slit tail with a pully. I can't see climbing with out it. I use 11m climbing line. I just bought a new glide saddle ,and going to trade in my spit tail for a prussic. I got read of that big heavy clip, and use biners. I now use the Dsrt for footlocking. I converted to the blakes. I do most of my cutting with my silky. All those things have made me a better more efficient climber. I try to get other climber I work with to just try out a slit tail. They won't give it a try. Their lost. On the other hand I see what some people take up the tree with em and think its way over kill. K.I.S.S If you don't at lest check out whats out there that new or at lest new to you that may improve your all around performance thats just stubbornest..

 

[oldirty]

i'm hearing ya about 2 handing to adjust. ive more or less been on the gibbs for all my climbing career. the one's that come with the steelcore flip. i made a long rope flip out of some excess 9/16th and was using a gibbs for that too.

i got used to having to reweight myself to get tightened or loosened up on the steel core adjuster.

funny thing (to me) is that i just bought a prussic and another micro pulley to go on my saddle as the new flipline system only to find this little beauty of an idea. maybe i'll just use the new prussic and pulley for the pine tree's.

TM, you got the idea though. i still havent used it other than rafter time but i am thinking nothing but good things about it. it cant be any worse than the gibbs.

 

[oldirty]

Boy, I'm learning a lot of cool stuff from this thread. I don't know if I'm old school, but I am old...

thats why i knocked the dust off this thread man, i was searching another topic when i came across this. i couldnt keep it for myself. i just had to share with everyone who hadnt read it.



good luck man, stay safe.

 

[Tree Machine]

thats why i knocked the dust off this thread man

So many past threads, treasures of detailed information, buried. The same topics come up in new threads and are covered superficially as the dedicated contributors of past don't want to spend time repeating what has already been gone over. Thank you for rekindling a good one.

i got used to having to reweight myself to get tightened or loosened up on the steel core adjuster.

Don't you just tip your left hip toward the adjuster for a fraction of a second while you release the grab?

I hear guys endorsing the 'benefit' of being able to adjust-out while the flipline is weighted. I'd say that would only be a benefit if it doesn't come at the cost of lessened efficiency while adjusting-in. Adjusting-in, toward the tree is far more critical than releasing and backing away from. From the friction and performance standpoint, adjusting-out is a gimme, that's the easy part. Adjusting-in is where you need friction-free, precise, one-handed, non-slop, instant ease.

Also, the adjuster should ideally be low-profile (small, not bulky or heavy) so that it doesn't get hung up in crotches when you're cruising around up there. The swivel-biner would definitely have the benefit of being light and 'slithery'. I will try that out some day. What I'm currently using is not showing me the love.

 

[Tree Machine]

My micrograb has been in non-use for about a year and a half, but it's still the reference for simplicity, durability, size & compactness. I had to use mine to establish a 'vacation saddle' and instead of gearing my home saddle with the same thing I figured I'd move around a bit and try some different things- not because I found the micrograb problematic in any way, but I just like to try different stuff. Micrograb on 11 mm, not 13. I just wish they'd come out with an 11 mm wirecore flipline. I KNOW I could love that.

What I'm using right now is the worst of anything I've used, except the Klimair two-way adjuster (I don't think they intended that for flipline usage). I can adjust-out fully weighted, but ya know what,? it is a rare moment when I am hanging with 100% of my weight on a flipline. Usually I'm standing on something, a limb on trim or spikes on a takedown, so the vast majority of the time, on a scale of important features, adjusting-out while fully weighted is about at the bottom of the list. Just about everything I've ever used allows adjustment out while partially weighted. If the climber were unable to adjust out on a partially loaded flipline, that would mean he/she would have to have the flipline completely slack to disengage the adjuster.

That adjuster would be in the class of toothed devices, like a tibloc or a mini-traxion or an old version ropeman. Poor choices to be sure, at least for this application. Anything with a smooth, or ribbed cam will release under partial weight, or with the friction surface partially released.

We gotta have a picture of your flipline setup, TreeCo. I'm eager to move onto something better. C'mon, throw down dude!

 

[Tree Machine]

Thank you for the pic, TreeCo. So the end of the line not shown would have a stopper knot. The clip end would extend out, around the tree and to your far-side D. Yes?

Two things that flash immediately, and please correct me if I'm wrong-- to feed rope out, you need one hand to collapse the hitch, the other to feed the rope through.

Second, every time you want to adjust-in, the coils need to retract to the point that they hit the swivel (let's say 5"), THEN the rope can feed through it, then to tension things up the coils need to go back to the tensioned position, another 5" travel back. This is 10" of 'slop' in the system. Of course, the measurements are a visual guess, but the point being, so much of the time an adjustment-in needs to be a couple or three inches.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Make me a believer. Or at least make my 'visual guess' on distances more accurate, and let me know how paying out can be a one-handed operation.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

I'll be in providence!

Justin, if you want some of that NE ropes techcord like Tom uses give me a call, moss hooked me up with some.

 

[Tree Machine]

Thank you for keeping me on track. Here's the part where I'm fuzzy:

Paying out rope is a one handed operation. Just grab the wraps of the hitch, squeeze and pull lightly.

Paying out would be if the snap is not attached to you, and for this I see one hand on the hitch to engage the release and the other hand to pay out.

Now if the snap is attached already to the far-side D, adjusting-out would be a one-handed op.

Likely, though, in action, the snap is not up close to the hitch as seen in the picture and and the line wouldn't need to be paid out in order to get connected. The stopper knot would be closer to the VT and the better length of the flipine already paid out & readied for action with only the weight of the snap to flip around the tree. Cool.

Also, thanks for clarifying the amount of slop in the system. That's truly important, not as a point to criticize, but as a point to compare. If you come from a world of reaching across, releasing a hitch with one hand, using the other to pull rope through, a self-tending, one-handed system with a 3" in 3" out slop factor would be a world of improvement.

To adjust in, TreeCo, do you use a motion of pulling the knot end backwards, away from the tree, like the motion you would use in working a ski pole, or do you come across with the far-side hand and pull across your belly?

 

[oldirty]

I switched to this set up from using the micro acender and like it better.
.

yup. this new (to me) setup is solid. i wont be going back to a mech adjuster anytime soon, thats fo sho. dont need a pulley either. less of that jingle jangle the old schoolers hate. lol.

sweet! thanks tom d.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The VT is tied to my left D and may likely be replaced soon with the swivel biner.

If you tie a VT so that the top end of the coil braids under the bottom end it functions better.

 

[LTREES]

I started to use the micro acender on a cable lanyard early last year. I find the lanyard feeding through alot when I'm climbing. I would guess it is from dragging the tail along. Do you guys get that alot?(before you hung them in the shed) Then you need 2 hands to feed it out to a workable length. Can you use the cabled lanyard in this set up or do you need to use rope. I have always used a 3 strand rope before with 2 clips and a prussic. This is good stuff you guys are showing us, I appreciate it. I am looking to advance my climbing and I'm looking to go SRT very soon. Just have not seen it around here. Need to learn more. What kind of pulley are you using on the climbing line? I would like to see a good pic of that set up and proper lengths of the tails. Thanks again.

LT...

 

[Bermie]

TM, it seems you've been using mechanical grabs for so long you don't get how easy it is to have a rope adjuster on a lanyard! Sorry if I got the wrong impression...

In or out, adjusting the rope (distel or VT) is a one hand EASY operation. You don't even have to take your weight load off the hitch to go in or out although a quick hip flick does make it a bit easier.

The slack on mine can't be more than a few inches, so there is not a lot of set back.

I have tried mechanical adjusters on lanyards and I don't like how you have to take weight off first to release them, that then does require using two hands sometimes...unless I've only been using old style ones!

 

[Tree Machine]

Bermie points out.

TM, it seems you've been using mechanical grabs for so long you don't get how easy it is to have a rope adjuster on a lanyard! Sorry if I got the wrong impression...

No, it's more the school of friction hitch fixed (anchored), or friction hitch attached to the Non-Anchored end of the flipline. Or the DEDA, (dual-ended, dual adjustable) where niether end is anchored.

Then we move into the wirecore arena, and all of these are 13 mm, stiffer, of course, than rope. Once again, one end anchored and the hitch or device out on the flying end, OR the hitch anchored and wirecore flipline ends adjustable, or even DEDA.

There's just such a number of ways to go about it. I've tried them all, all except this most recent one with the captive-eye, I'm intrigued.

But slack in the system, how the hitch behaves differently in the wet, the silky saw factor, I just have gone to devices, but this is not to say I won't go back to a hitch system, it just has to bring aboard versatility, ease or swiftness beyond that I'm using.
(which, at the moment wouldn't be hard to do)

a quick hip flick does make it a bit easier.

I think that's universal for hitch or device

I have tried mechanical adjusters on lanyards and I don't like how you have to take weight off first to release them.

Sort of, more like the quick hip you described. You should be able to adjust under partial weight, in or out, otherwise it is not suited for use on a flipline.

 

[Raymond]

I like to mix it up a bit. Little old, little new...koo koo kachoo Sorry..I don't know where that came from.

 

[oldirty]

I like to mix it up a bit. Little old, little new...koo koo kachoo Sorry..I don't know where that came from.

i think its the mullet.

the short hair with the spike represents the business side of you but the hair flowing over the shoulders surely must represent the party side....


not many can pull that off rayray. you do....koo koo kachoo.


lol

 

[tree MDS]

i think its the mullet.

the short hair with the spike represents the business side of you but the hair flowing over the shoulders surely must represent the party side....


not many can pull that off rayray. you do....koo koo kachoo.


lol

That was truely hilarious oldirty, lol.

Hey ray, you keep throwing up pics of that thing and we'll surely get you to hack her off eventually. Let her go man, let her go.

 

[Blakesmaster]

That was truely hilarious oldirty, lol.

Hey ray, you keep throwing up pics of that thing and we'll surely get you to hack her off eventually. Let her go man, let her go.

My girl's a mullet aficionado. Everytime she sees a dude with one she needs a picture. She's got a whole collection of pics of her with mullet guys. She even has a few mullet wigs we wear out from time to time.

On topic though, I'm still fighting to get the hang of new-school gear. I've been on my split tail and blakes with a micro pulley for a bit but still tie off on the closed system for smaller removals where I don't foresee the need to recrotch. I just swung around the tree with a prussik loop VT the other day. I like it because I'm learning more but the advantages still seem minimal. I've yet to find the sweetness.

 

[oldirty]

you mustnt be looking to hard man, its there.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

you mustnt be looking to hard man, its there.

So true. I think you need to see someone who uses a VT regularly to see the potential. I was using a Blake's on a double crotch transfer last Tuesday, golly-gee, what a PITA.