New Gas Formulations

[sam2506]

Hey guys, before you start the "Bush Bashing", why don't you look at all the facts. This countries energy problems started way before George Bush was elected, he just the one that got stuck cleaning up the mess. If anyone is to blame for our fuel shortage it is us, the American people who have gotten so used to cheap fuels, that we abuse it. We never considered it might someday cost as much here as it does in Europe. I think the war is a little more complicated than "oil", maybe you have forgotten about 9/11 and 2,792 hard working Americans killed in that terrorist attack. Considering most of the OPEC nations are pissed at us for being in Iraq, we are not really helping ourselves to "Cheap" oil by going to war. Lets keep our discussions politically free, and the talk on chainsaws. There are plenty of liberal websites to "Bush Bash" on, if that is what you want to do.

 

[bwalker]

Lobo, you may be right, but a recent article I read by Steve Forbes doesnt think so. Either do the OPEC oil ministers.

 

[Lobo]

Ben I was reading the other day that there is a chap by the name of Matthew Simmons I believe (not 100% I have the name correct ) who is an oil industry specialist/analyst and apparently a close advisor to George W. on oil and energy matters, he believes we are not that far away from crude that could hit $182.00 U.S per barrel. He believes that oil is too cheap presently and as the rest of the world is emerging the demand for oil will probably triple. He claims the U.S. alone presently consume 25% of the worlds oil production and that with demand growing so fast cheap oil will most probably dissapear. (cheap oil being $45.00 - $50.00/barrel)

He mentionned countries such as China and India which is nearly 2.5 billion people between the two will increasingly be buying oil and bidding on available oil production to ensure their economic growths.

I sure hope we do not get to those prices as presently you can see a very negative affect on an awful lot of people who were unfortunately stretched to the limit before these hikes and have now started economically ripping at the seams.
This scenario will bring economic hardship to too many families unfortunately.

I hope you are indeed correct and that we do get back to $30.00 - $40.00 per barrel crude as it will ease the pressure off many.

 

[Bob Wright]

This is just my opinion even though i work in a refinery. Yes we are running balls out. We got an ass chewing yesterday to get some down equipment back on. The hurricane kicked our butts at 5 am a few days ago because of the shut down pipeline from Louisana that feeds all the northern Marathon refinerys plus a lot of others that suck from that pipe. Our tanks only hold so much raw crude. Plus who recycles plastic anymore, all that polypropleyne that makes plastic could be making gasoline. But plastic pays more than gas and guess what all the plastic that goes to China and comes back toys, computers, car parts and Wal Mart blue bags gets used and set to the curb. Someone needs to come up with a way to turn it back into gasoline. Yes we all need to save (guilty myself) and quit pointing fingers and work on the real solutions...Bob

 

[Elmore]

I recycle plastic and what did 9-11 have to do with Iraq?
I sure hope these relaxed gasoline formulations work well and are not harmful to my rides and equipment.

 

[bwalker]

Lobo, OIl that is much over $30 dollars a barrell will trigger Fischer-Trope planst to sprout up all over the west. These plants can make mid level disttalates form caol for about $30 per barrel. Should this happen whatch the US trade deficate shrink by leaps and bounds and the Can $ sink to all time lows.
Do I think this will happen? No, I think the market will correct itself within a year and a half. Maybe sooner.

BTW the US has had a energy crisis since the first oil embargo. what should have been a wakeup call wasnt and now we are paying the price.

 

[bwalker]

I recycle plastic and what did 9-11 have to do with Iraq?
I sure hope these relaxed gasoline formulations work well and are not harmful to my rides and equipment.

Nothing. And no, the new gas will be fine for your equipment.

 

[Lobo]

Here is an interesting tid-bit on known world oil reserves with the top 10 countries only listed, bare in mind Russia now claim their reserves are at least 180 billion barrels instead of 60 billion they had originally reported which would now give them the second largest known reserves in the world.

The reserves are calculated using current existing technology to obtain it.

Plenty of crude oil for many many years to come not even considering future exploration and technological advances.

 

[Bob Wright]

Here is an interesting tid-bit on known world oil reserves with the top 10 countries only listed, bare in mind Russia now claim their reserves are at least 180 billion barrels instead of 60 billion they had originally reported which would now give them the second largest known reserves in the world.

The reserves are calculated using current existing technology to obtain it.

Plenty of crude oil for many many years to come not even considering future exploration and technological advances.

Yes but did you see on the news Russia is going to sell the crude to "their buddy" China leaving the USA out of the picture. And who went over there to find it in the first place. We did...Bob

 

[gatkeper1]

>The hurricane hits, and 24 hours later the price at the pump went from $2.65 to $3.10.<

Thanks to the futures and commodities traders

 

[Bob Wright]

>The hurricane hits, and 24 hours later the price at the pump went from $2.65 to $3.10.<

Thanks to the futures and commodities traders

CORRECT They are making the big bucks...Bob

 

[Lobo]

Yes but did you see on the news Russia is going to sell the crude to "their buddy" China leaving the USA out of the picture. And who went over there to find it in the first place. We did...Bob

China is bidding on crude in many countries including Canada.
As a matter of fact they have just made a 20 billion bid to purchase Unocal out of California lock, stock and barrels.

Bob the fact that a petroleum company explored in some far away land and found oil does not give the exploring oil company an automatic right to this oil.
The oil still belongs to that country.

Russia will be selling to China because the oil can be moved via overland pipeline fairly easily and cheaply from Russia to China, which makes logical and economic sense.

 

[Bob Wright]

China is bidding on crude in many countries including Canada.
As a matter of fact they have just made a 20 billion bid to purchase Unocal out of California lock, stock and barrels.

Bob the fact that a petroleum company explored in some far away land and found oil does not give the exploring oil company an automatic right to this oil.
The oil still belongs to that country.

Russia will be selling to China because the oil can be moved via overland pipeline fairly easily and cheaply from Russia to China, which makes logical and economic sense.

Yup i know about exploration and rights. I read all about the dealings at work...Bob

 

[jimbo1490]

All politcal BS aside the reason you see gas prices shoot up at the slightest hint of problems is our own fault. Drill in ANWR ,the coast off Cali,all of the Gulf of mexico and build some new refineries and we wouldnt be in this mess. This isnt George Bushs fault, but rather our ridiculous environmental laws. Reformulated gas being one of them. RFG actually increases fuel consumption!

The USA has in the total expanse of it's territory, some of the largest proven oil and gas reserves in the world. We have enough to be 100% energy independent right now. And that is only the PROVEN reserves. There is probably much more to be found, except that in some key locations, Florida for example, it is illegal to even LOOK for more oil or gas, let alone open new drilling operations.

The republican governr of FL and brother of the president recently drove more nails into the coffin of the domestic energy business:

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/SECRETARY/news/2002/02-govdrill.htm

The pretense is that somehow oil rigs drilling offshore will somehow(?) stop tourists from coming to Florida. It's difficult to understand how, since the rigs will be beyond the horizon and not visible from the beach. Tar balls and occasional oil slicks will continue unabated since they have nothing to do with drilling/recovery but transportation which no one is proposing to stop, of course.

I have personally come full circle on this issue having at one time belonged to Greenpeace (in my 20's). As is consistent with my personality, I dutifully learned all I could about how evil humankind was wrecking the whole universe
(which should be left for the animals to enjoy unencumbered by our presence).

The result of my desire to learn the deeper facts was that I came to the inescapable conclusion that about 95% of all dire environmental claims are the purest Bull$hit! Totally politically motivated pretense. Don't believe me? Fine. Do your own research.

At some point we must lift the veil.

Sorry for the rant

Jimbo

 

[semi]

guys, the republicans have been trying since 1997 to drill in ANWR and to build more refineries. the Democrats and the enviro lobbies keep blocking it. Trust me, if we had the refining capacity we would not be in this mess. Don't blame the republicans or Bush for this. they have been writing bills now for over 8 years. Take it from someone with some political ties. don't believe the media and what they tell you is happening.

 

[jimbo1490]

bogus science like the FACT that the polar ice cap has reduced in size by over a third in the past two decades?

Nobobdy knows that for sure and anyone who says that they know this for a certainty is full of $hit (has a non-scientific agenda)

http://tinyurl.com/d28hu

Get off the pipe dude. And the FACT is still that there is less than a year's supply of oil in ANWR. And the tas payer will heavily subsidize exploration and drilling there to get that measly little bit. FACT.

All oil exploration (and drug research, aerodynamics research, medical research and etc. ad infinitum) is heavily subsidized. This is done to encourage companies to egage in risky (potentially lo$$y) activities. Most of the time this is considered a good thing (except when it's an EEEEVIL oil company) SO WHAT?

So I guess the lesson is piss on everything for short-term gain and then we'll figure out solving the resulting problems after the fact. We are reaping the fruits of the policy right now via middle-eastern oil.

The policy we are reaping the 'rewards' of is certainly NOT one of oil resource development, which you seem to abhor. Actually we HAVE been following the policy you seem to be promoting, which is 'develop no new oil sources'.

I'm guessing that your last paragraph is an allusion to the (again heavily subsidized) research into so-called alternative energy sources. We have been working steadily on these for decades and while there has been some progress
alternative energy sources have no real hope of competing economically with oil until oil is well over $100 a barrel. Seen another way, if alternative energy sources were our ONLY energy source, it would be like paying over $100 a barrel for oil right now. Our energy bills would double or triple. NOT good. Seen yet another way they would not help relieve oil price pressure until oil tops $100 a barrel.

Now most alternative energy sources have the purported benefit of reducing CO2 emissions, if you believe that sort of thing really matters. They forgot to tell you that most of these (hydrogen for instance) still produce water vapor (pesky laws of physics!), the most important and potent greenhouse gas of all. Again presented here in case that sort of thing matters to you.

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

I have my facts straight. Do You?

Jimbo

 

[mktest]

Water vapor is a strong greenhouse gas, and we don't fully know what effect rising water "contamination" of the atmosphere might have. But the amount of water coming from vehicles, either hydrogen or alchohol-based, is nothing compared to say a normal lake or moist piece of land. For me, myself, I and my relatives, I don't care much about global warming. We'll be fine. Live well above sea level, and will most likely be dead anyway before anything really drastic might happen. But we only have one Earth to experiment with, and I prefer that we make as few and as safe experiments as possible.
If the US wants to reduce dependance on foreign oil, I recommend building a few hundred new nuclear reactors to produce electricity. Then the saved oil and coal can be used for driving (until alternatives becomes more available). (about half of the electricity in the US is based on fossile fuel I reckon)

 

[Elmore]

Do you mind if we build them over in Sweden and just run ocean bottom cables over here?

heh heh

 

[16gauge]

I don't hear much on this thread about Stihls, Huskys. Macs, Homelites, Pioneers, Shins, Dolmars or Jonnys.

Perhaps that is because if we do not achieve more energy independence we will only be able to buy Poulans from Elux along with the swedish nuc power. Or better yet we could sell Nuclear technology to N Korea and Iran. In exchange we could get Chinese saws from N Korea and oil to run them from Iran.

This makes as much sense as half of the posts here. Lets talk about the Arborist business and save the blame Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, GW Bush stuff for some site where people go to discuss such nonsense...please.

 

[CNYCountry]

He mentionned countries such as China and India which is nearly 2.5 billion people between the two will increasingly be buying oil and bidding on available oil production to ensure their economic growths.

There is no way if crude goes up to $182 a barrel that China and India are going to be able to continue to grow like they have been. So, less energy usage on their part, oil comes back down. There are checks and balances.