New member with OWB issues

[finalwinchester]

ok. first things first, your pump is mounted incorrectly. that could be part or all of the problem. check this out. https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIRaIF5WBSQA0AgsnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Proper+Mounting+Orientation+of+a+Taco+Pump&vid=3f7f181b5e800353cdf7b1321c30ccb6&turl=http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=WN.K0sLgCj2tilqMLIS19t5sw&pid=15.1&h=168&w=300&c=7&rs=1&rurl=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvrR5ZAkf10&tit=How+to+Install+a+Taco+00+Circulator&c=0&h=168&w=300&l=193&sigr=11b72bnob&sigt=113lg02sc&sigi=12ltfmvld&age=1362434075&fr2=p:s,v:v&fr=yhs-mozilla-004&hsimp=yhs-004&hspart=mozilla&tt=b

Good catch! whoever put it in must not have watched that video.... XD, ill see if i can get it rotated correctly...

 

[hupte]

this is the bleeder I put in when installing a boiler.
http://www.menards.com/main/p-1444446182875-c-8523.htm?tid=-6717315038864225763
http://www.menards.com/main/p-1444446175469-c-8523.htm?tid=-6717315038864225763

you should have a big box store close to you with something similar. based on your pictures I'm guessing the previous owner installed the boiler himself. so there likely isn't a way to bleed the air. your pump is likely having some cavitation going on inside it. and thats what is causing the issues. as long as you are maintaining the proper water treatment then your plate exchanger likely isn't the problem. most times the problem with water to water HX is the potable water side, not the boiler water side.

 

[Marshy]

If you watch the video there is a high point vent at 00:58 to the right of the pump.

 

[finalwinchester]

Better?

 

[finalwinchester]

this is the bleeder I put in when installing a boiler.
http://www.menards.com/main/p-1444446182875-c-8523.htm?tid=-6717315038864225763
http://www.menards.com/main/p-1444446175469-c-8523.htm?tid=-6717315038864225763

you should have a big box store close to you with something similar. based on your pictures I'm guessing the previous owner installed the boiler himself. so there likely isn't a way to bleed the air. your pump is likely having some cavitation going on inside it. and thats what is causing the issues. as long as you are maintaining the proper water treatment then your plate exchanger likely isn't the problem. most times the problem with water to water HX is the potable water side, not the boiler water side.

I don't have a bleeder like that anywhere that i've seen... I thought i could get the air out by shutting a valve for a few secs and opening the spigot next to the pump and doing it multiple times. I swear i read that somewhere...

 

[lindnova]

No the motor should be horizontal not vertical.

Is the boiler higher than the house? That would make it harder to get air out. I have my pump in the basement and never have air problems.

That flat plate looks like a 10 plate. Wouldn't take much for it to have a restricted flow.

 

[finalwinchester]

No the motor should be horizontal not vertical.

Is the boiler higher than the house? That would make it harder to get air out. I have my pump in the basement and never have air problems.

That flat plate looks like a 10 plate. Wouldn't take much for it to have a restricted flow.

According to the video any direction was good except the way it was, it said you could place the motor in the 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, or 9 o'clock position, just not 6' o'clock.

The boiler is on the same level as the house.

 

[USMC615]

According to the video any direction was good except the way it was, it said you could place the motor in the 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, or 9 o'clock position, just not 6' o'clock.

The boiler is on the same level as the house.

The 3/9/12 o'clock position is for the wiring box attached to the pump...the pump housing must be mounted horizontal. Are your ball valve/pipe flanges sweated?...May not allow a horizontal motor mount until they are un-sweated and new installed, or sweated back in place 90 degs. If NPT threads, should be able to rotate with pipe wrenches possibly, unthreading back 90 degs (1/4 of a full rotation), and may not leak at the flange gaskets after re-tightening.

 

[finalwinchester]

The 3/9/12 o'clock position is for the wiring box attached to the pump...the pump housing must be mounted horizontal. Are your pipe flanges sweated?...May not allow a horizontal motor mount until they are un-sweated and new installed, or sweated back in place 90 degs. If NPT threads, should be able to rotate with pipe wrenches possibly, unthreading back 90 degs (1/4 of a full rotation), and may not leak.

**** me! I just saw that... urrrggghhhh

 

[hupte]

yes exactly what usmc615 said. it appears that your pex lines are mechanical fittings. so you can probably remove the pex line, unbolt the pump, then. tighten the pump flange on the right a quarter turn. then that will move your pump to the correct position. then simply remount the pump and pex line. could be an easy fix.

 

[finalwinchester]

I don't have a big enough pipe wrench to be able to spin those and I don't think the motor will even fit horizontally, but something i did made a difference because it is blowing consistently much warmer now, almost as hot as the propane does, and just feeling the supply line (which is very hot) it feels like the water is moving faster than it was before, so something worked. I tried to get as much air as possible out by closing certain valves and opening the spigot letting some water out into a bucket until i stopped seeing bubbles.

 

[jgoodhart]

In your pic of the plate heat exchanger, there appears to be a strainer in line to keep dirt out of the heat exchanger. So in that Y looking thing is a screen that should be cleaned from time to time.

 

[finalwinchester]

Tomorrow I will get a bigger pipe wrench so I can try to get that damn pump horizontal, but in the meantime it seems to be heating much better. I'll also check out that cleaner that you mentioned tomorrow.

 

[USMC615]

Tomorrow I will get a bigger pipe wrench so I can try to get that damn pump horizontal, but in the meantime it seems to be heating much better. I'll also check out that cleaner that you mentioned tomorrow.

Once you get the circulating pump mounted horizontal and pipes/lines bled of as much air as you can, I think you'll have the problem solved. Definitely, periodically check the strainer/screen at the heat exchanger like suggested. A raised manual vent/relief valve added at some point in the future would be a plus to bleed future trapped air as it circulates through the system. The grinnel valve (spigot valve) by the pump certainly helps now though.

 

[czar800]

I also believe air in the lines is most likely your problem but also on a heat exchanger airflow restriction can become a problem. The fins could clog up and if the exchanger is not tight in the furnace it could still blow with air leaking around The exchanger.

 

[woodcuter ms361]

when I built my owb I had same problem,thought pump was bad,tried another new pump same problem ,heat for a while then quite heating,come to find out it was air in lines,to solove this I installed a ball valve and got a hose off washing machine and hooked garden hose to ball valve turned on water and ran water through system and pushed all the air out,been 4 yrs I think, and have had no more problems,I see in your picture you have a water valve get you a hose for washing machine and hook water hose to valve,turn on water,open valve and push the air out after you change position of pump.

 

[woodcuter ms361]

Forgot to tell you to turn one of you ball valves off before turning on water that way water has to flow in one direction pushing all air out.

 

[Red97]

Sounds like you are getting it figured out.

What temp are you running the water at? That makes a difference on the heat output of the exchanger.

 

[finalwinchester]

It runs at about 180 - 185 degrees now, I had it higher when trying to figure this all out but turned it down again when it started working. Getting a little warmer the next few days so good time to get this stuff done. I borrowed a bigger pipe wrench today so after work ill try to get that pump turned horizontal and I might order another one just as a back-up.

 

[H-Ranch]

It runs at about 180 - 185 degrees now, I had it higher when trying to figure this all out but turned it down again when it started working. Getting a little warmer the next few days so good time to get this stuff done. I borrowed a bigger pipe wrench today so after work ill try to get that pump turned horizontal and I might order another one just as a back-up.

Absolutely! Only makes sense to have the quick change valves if you have a spare pump on hand to replace it.