New Perit Requirements

[2dogs]

The permit came in today for the removal of eight trees in Monterey county California. The permit requires that each tree have a copy of the permit posted on it for ten days prior to removal. After that a nesting bird survey must be done. Once that is cleared then a biologist must be present while EACH tree is cut down. All of these are hazard trees required by the consulting arborist to be removed. This is going to add hundreds of dollars to the removal each tree. I don't know what we will do if some little old lady complains. I suppose the entire job will stop. We are currently midst of a several hundred thousand dollar job (IIRC) that could also get derailed. Every friggin agency in California think that it is the most important! We are 800 acres surrounded by the Los Padres National Forest but you would think we are in downtown San Francisco.

 

[Gologit]

 

[treeslayer2003]

Bill this is not a regular logging job is it? that sounds ridiculous, i,m sick of hearing about nesting birds and the like that may or may not be present.

 

[lone wolf]

The permit came in today for the removal of eight trees in Monterey county California. The permit requires that each tree have a copy of the permit posted on it for ten days prior to removal. After that a nesting bird survey must be done. Once that is cleared then a biologist must be present while EACH tree is cut down. All of these are hazard trees required by the consulting arborist to be removed. This is going to add hundreds of dollars to the removal each tree. I don't know what we will do if some little old lady complains. I suppose the entire job will stop. We are currently midst of a several hundred thousand dollar job (IIRC) that could also get derailed. Every friggin agency in California think that it is the most important! We are 800 acres surrounded by the Los Padres National Forest but you would think we are in downtown San Francisco.

I hope this is a joke but I think it aint!

 

[northmanlogging]

Make copies of the permits that are very small... and place them on the back side of said trees...

 

[northmanlogging]

Oh and do a nesting bird survey before applying for said permit so the ah... birds can be "relocated" (to my tummy)

 

[1270d]

Oh and do a nesting bird survey before applying for said permit so the ah... birds can be "relocated" (to my tummy)

Don't hog all the food, coyotes have to eat too.

 

[slowp]

Has anybody tried to change things legally? Or is there not enough money to throw at changing the process? Or nobody cares?

Actually, having a wildlife biologist hanging around isn't such a bad thing. Perhaps you can do some educating while they are a captive audience, if you can get them out of their pickup.

 

[treeslayer2003]

Has anybody tried to change things legally? Or is there not enough money to throw at changing the process? Or nobody cares?

Actually, having a wildlife biologist hanging around isn't such a bad thing. Perhaps you can do some educating while they are a captive audience, if you can get them out of their pickup.

whos going to listen to dumb loggers? after all we just mind dead tree killers tearing up the environment.

i know you don't feel that way Ms.P but that is how it feels when i try and deal with the misinformed. maybe you guys over there have a voice but we don't here.

 

[2dogs]

Patty the lawyers are involved in the process now. There have been several instances here where the person at the County or City level has added requirements on their own. In our county the lady checking septic system plans was adding things she thought were a good idea and added additional fees. Each septic permit was in the $20K range until a lawyer applied for a permit for his own house and found the "creative" permit process. A granny unit, garage below and living quarters above, cost around $250K to build with nearly $100K going to permits and "ready to serve" charges. Since this is the first time these additional requirements have been brought up we are indeed checking the legality.

Re the biologist, yes we do see an opportunity. Maybe. But at several hundred dollars per hour I hope to cut fast, as fast as possible and do very little talking. The problem is that two of the trees are large (and near buildings) and have to be chunked down. They may take an entire day just for the two trees. (Cody isn't around for the next 3 months so we have to hire a contractor to climb).

 

[2dogs]

Bill this is not a regular logging job is it? that sounds ridiculous, i,m sick of hearing about nesting birds and the like that may or may not be present.

I'm used to dealing with bird nesting issues but really, how often does this need to be done? It is also ridiculous that the permit process takes so long at the County offices. Should a signature really take 3 months and ALWAYS come back with more requirements?

 

[treeslayer2003]

what do y'all call birds? eagles and blue herons are my big problem.......although we also have a forest dwelling bird law......i still don't really understand that one. i really think selections should be exempt from most of that drivel but it ain't gonna happen.

i also have trouble in one county taking forever to sign off on a permit. thing is its the zoning office, they really don't have much say. if check the dates, the forester and soil offices signed within a week.

 

[2dogs]

Wolf with all those MS200Ts can I assume you are a climber?

 

[hseII]

We've become the USSR of the 1970s/80s in that there have been jobs "made" for everyone, and unnecessary red tape to justify some "plump" person sitting in the Air Conditioning.

Time to turn off the power to the cool Office.

 

[treeslayer2003]

We've become the USSR of the 1970s/80s in that there have been jobs "made" for everyone, and unnecessary red tape to justify some "plump" person sitting in the Air Conditioning.

Time to turn off the power to the cool Office.

you hit the nail on the head there Heath. it is not the foresters or folks that know what they are doing, it is some mis educated person holding up every one else.

county guy stopped out today to just say hi, he said i was one of two working in this county at the moment. things sure have changed.

 

[slowp]

I have really tried to get folks out to see what goes on so they know what they are planning for. It is a hard thing to do, and I gave up. One 'ologist never got that a loader and a feller buncher or processor are not the same machine. Never. I even took a Logger's World issue to a meeting to try to explain. When the planning document came out, the wording was not changed and as far as I know, never has been. I gave up. It just made more paperwork for me as I had to write up that the contract requirements could not be met so instead we would do it another way. That 'ologist never really cared anyway.

Dumb loggers? Not around here. It takes their cooperation and suggestions to get a good job done. They are the ones who know what their equipment can and can't do--moreso than the equipment brochures. I learned so much by asking questions and listening.

Unfortunately, so many 'ologists have to work on timber sales because the funding is there for that. If not, they'd be out of work for part of the year. They hate working on timber projects and will often say, "I need to do my REAL job." Not all of them, but quite a few will do that. They get paid for crappy work out of the timber budget. It's up to the timber folks--Foresters to work with the loggers and make things happen in spite of what is on the plan.

Oh, I've always been the "plump" one, no matter how much running up and down hills. I do like getting back inside an air conditioned pickup for the drive home on the rare hot day here.
More importantly is to have some dry clothes and comfy footwear for the drive back in. Plus maybe some coffee....

 

[slowp]

I'm used to dealing with bird nesting issues but really, how often does this need to be done? It is also ridiculous that the permit process takes so long at the County offices. Should a signature really take 3 months and ALWAYS come back with more requirements?

It took NINE months to get a signature here for a logging systems change. Finally, the guy with the contract authority gave up on getting the signature of the specialist and Okayed it after a bit of cursing. He also went ahead and gave the go ahead to do winter logging in elk winter range, where our wildlife guy was worried about elk being disturbed. There was more cussing after I explained that it was tribal elk hunting season in the elk winter range so elk were being disturbed anyway.

 

[northmanlogging]

Patty the lawyers are involved in the process now. There have been several instances here where the person at the County or City level has added requirements on their own. In our county the lady checking septic system plans was adding things she thought were a good idea and added additional fees. Each septic permit was in the $20K range until a lawyer applied for a permit for his own house and found the "creative" permit process. A granny unit, garage below and living quarters above, cost around $250K to build with nearly $100K going to permits and "ready to serve" charges. Since this is the first time these additional requirements have been brought up we are indeed checking the legality.

Re the biologist, yes we do see an opportunity. Maybe. But at several hundred dollars per hour I hope to cut fast, as fast as possible and do very little talking. The problem is that two of the trees are large (and near buildings) and have to be chunked down. They may take an entire day just for the two trees. (Cody isn't around for the next 3 months so we have to hire a contractor to climb).

So I'm not there, but is it possible to pull the two over rather then chunking them down... would save some time maybe...

 

[2dogs]

The fir is about 40" dbh and 125' tall, the top has broken off, the tanoak maybe 40+ and 60' tall. Both are near buildings. Besides they are on the arborists plot map so they better be standing up straight when the 'ologists get there. We want to do things by the rules. We also want the same rules to apply to everyone.

 

[Samlock]

Haha. Over here the security planning near the roads and streets is a major pain in the butt. Too complicated, slow and expensive, if done by the book. The problem is usually bypassed by hiring a small scale contractor (such as me), who simply gets on with and clears off before the rat pack guesses what's going on.