New Pipe Layout

[timberwolf]

Between reading posts tonight I laied out a new 066 pipe, man the math hurts the head.

Anyway hope I can get a bit more out of the saw, the last pipe worked well, but the power band was a bit week. So I added some volume and steepened up the cones a bit for the new pipe.

I will Try to cut the metal out tomorrow night, sheet steel has gone up in price 50% in the last 3 months!, Why?

Pic of the old pipe and paper layout of the new one.

 

[kevlar]

I take it you race?If not make me one for my firewood saw!

 

[timberwolf]

race, no, but I play a bit, just for fun.

 

[chowdozer]

I would be interested to know a little of the math behind designing a pipe. It's a dream of mine

 

[kevlar]

I have just started playing.We have a bunch of old dead saws customers have left as they bought new ones and Have built 5 saws already.Now my saws are starting to get tuned ported,shaved, mufflers opened but still firewood sawsNo muffler building though you must do your own motor work too?

 

[timberwolf]

Come to think of it just about every darn thing I own is modified or targeted for modification at a future date. It's a real red green show.

If it aint broke your not trying

 

[timberwolf]

Pipes are fun, but the math is realy a pain.

three aspects to the math:

1 Pipe dimentions based on the saw specs, lots of complicated math here, lots of asumptions that need to be made, such as exhaust gas temp wich is near impossible to isolate this imput as the final pipe will in the end change this imput value. the tail begins to wag the dog. Some free software will lead you in the more or less right direction other free software will lead you the wrong direction.

2 Taking the pipe dimentions and making them into templates, Just worked out some new formulas and easier way of doing it for this pipe, hopefully the fit will be better than the last pipes which required a lot of tweeking and recutting to fit for welding.

3 The third aspect is that the first 2 don't mean much until the pipe is put on the saw, the black magic factor.

 

[Lawn Masters]

same here about the modified, or targeted for modification thing. even my jeans are modifed, (just more pockets) so that says I'm addicted to modifying things.

 

[timberwolf]

Thinking of how I can modify my mig welder to do a better job on the thin metal welding. Might be able to separate the gas solenoid and the wire feed circuits and then pulse the power and wire feed with the gas left on.

A tig would really be better but much slower.

My mig welder manual says that using the unit for tig welding is "not recommended", that not saying it can't be done right?

 

[MacDaddy]

Whats the worst that could happen

 

[timberwolf]

I am sure Stihl would tell you that opening the muffler up is "not recommended" as well.

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Gas weld it. Use a triple 000 tip.

 

[cunrya]

"sheet steel has gone up in price 50% in the last 3 months!, Why?"

New Steel Prices have been on the rise for awhile, some contributing factors are, strap prices are up last, year it was the chinese buying it, They shot up again in October, not sure why WE ARE AT WAR THOUGH SO... Scrap is melted down for new steal so this is one factor.

Another is all these hurricanes. A major industrial gas production plant (Air Products and Chemicals) was severly damaged in Katrina. They don't think they be back to full production until december. This has effected the price of steel because it takes certain industrial gasses to help fire the blasts furnaces they use for production

I wouldn't anticipate the price of steal to come down for some time with all the hurricane destruction, and the fact that there are over a thousand new skyscapers scheduled to be built in china between now and the end of the decade. Prabably more info than u were looking for but.. Thats the scoop from my scrapyard owner buddies.

 

[timberwolf]

I would buy the Hurricane / gas / energy price argument, up to a point. Still think their is some profiteering going on, but it may be needed more as a market correction.

However the argument that 9+% economic growth rate in China is pushing up the price, thats questionable. It does not cost more to produce the metal just because there is more demand. Some one is lining their pockets and crediting the increases to such world events. They charge more because the high demand market will accept it.

Even at the jacked up price the metal in this pipe only adds up to about 5 bucks, the welding gas needed costs much more.

 

[cunrya]

Gotcha Timberwolf,

Keep in mind It all goes back to Supply and Demand, Those were just a couple reason why the supply is down and the demand is up.

 

[JohnL]

If you welded those up from flat sheet, it looks very good to me.

 

[timberwolf]

Update

I got the metal cut out and sections welded up, still the fitting is not quite perfect. I can make it work, but will need to do a bit more work on the math, I think I see what I missed.

 

[Oregon_Native]

what software do you use to help you design the pipes

i have a very good book that i got from a book store in my area it is very well laid out but i hate doing the math by hand it can and does boggle the mind.

 

[Al Smith]

Nice job,so far.What is that,22 ga?You could most likely get better results as Dennis said,using gas and a small tip.This allows you to carry the heat on the wire while filling in areas that don't fit as tight as you would like.

 

[timberwolf]

No Software for the design, though I do use some software crosschecking to help visualize what I am trying to accomplish.

I am working on steam-lining some of the math, then was thinking of putting it into and excel spread sheet to do the calculations. That way there is no slips of the finger on the calculator buttons that can throw the whole thing off, and by reentering one data field the whole thing can be reworked instantly.

Using .023 wire and 80/20 gas on 24 ga.