New to arborism, Insurance and workman's comp question?

[Philbert]

After 1 year an employer in Ohio is eligible for group rating.

That's what I was saying about each state being different - even Ohio and Washington, being state run plans, have different rules, rates etc.

The basic theory holds: insurance is a 'pool', based on expected losses and expected premiums (plus overhead, and profit for for-profit companies) from companies within that 'pool'. Office workers pay a lower rate because there is a lower history of injuries for that type of work, among all companies who perform that work. When companies pay a high premium, it is based on the historical and statistical data for that type of work, so when they complain, they have to look around themselves. Really large companies, in some states, can 'self-insure', creating their own 'pool', and pay the direct costs of their work related injuries, but they have to be able to absorb millions of dollars in potential, catastrophic costs.

I remember being at a safety meeting, several years ago, where the risk manager for a well known company was complaining about Minnesota comp rates for his industry. He represented the largest (and practically only) employer in that industry by far in the State. I could barely keep contain myself from standing up and asking who 'set' those rates.

*But, since you mention Ohio and Minnesota, many people would be surprised to hear that both of those states give out money to companies to help pay for some safety related expenses! The programs are different, so you need to look up the details. In Ohio, I think that you have to do a demonstration project and share the results:
https://www.bwc.ohio.gov/employer/programs/safety/empgrants.asp.

In Minnesota, it is a matching grant up to $10,000 (e.g. if the company spends $6,000, the State may match that $6,000, up to a maximum of $10K), and they may pay for more, standard, safety expenses:
http://www.doli.state.mn.us/wsc/Grants.asp

Other states may have programs, so it is worth looking into for things like: harnesses, fall protection/rescue equipment, training classes, barricades/warning lights, machine guarding, first aid equipment, etc. Maybe even a mini-skid steer. Could pay for the cost of your annual Arboristsite subscription . . . .

Philbert

 

[ATH]

......When companies pay a high premium, it is based on the historical and statistical data for that type of work, so when they complain, they have to look around themselves.....

The basis of my gripe: I look at everything we do very hard. The problem is that there are too many in the industry who do not. There is no way to separate myself from them and stay in the industry. I am not saying they have bad data...I am sure it is pretty good information industry-wide. But we don't act "like everybody else". It is what it is, and I don't expect it to change anytime soon, but I will continue to look for opportunities to influence that where I can. Regardless if it is 90% or 5%, as TreeAce said, that is just a cost we have to pass on to the customer.

 

[mike515]

To the OP....make sure you fully understand what your rates are based on in your state. In my state (Iowa), my GL is based on revenue and my WC is based on payroll. I also have a full coverage auto policy and another policy called an "Inland Marine" policy that covers things like chippers, saws, climbing gear, etc (in case of theft or whatever).

I think you're smart to do everything on the up and up. When I first started out, I had some older business owners (different line of work) tell me that everyone cheats and I was going to have to figure out my own game. I can tell you that my life is a lot easier when all my numbers match up. If my insurance company wants to verify my payroll.....I can provide my employee tax filings to do that, etc.

And holy crap!! Some of you guys are paying outrageous amounts for WC! I pay around 20% and think that's still way too high.

 

[OaktreePC]

Thank you all for the responses.

I did some research and looked up other companies in the area via the labor and industries website. For Workmans comp:

Tree care is $4/hr
Logging is $18/hr

Not exactly sure where one leaves off and the other begins, but it seems pretty reasonable given some of the numbers you guys are throwing around!

Thanks again

 

[Chris Francis]

We have several different codes here in Alabama. Tree Removal falls under Grading and Excavating of Land and is only about 10%. Stump grinding is ~20%. Go figure! My WC is through the Homebuilders Self Insurers Fund. Great rates, and whatever funds are left over after claims are paid... are distributed back as dividends. We got a $4,000 check out of the blue one year.

 

[CanopyGorilla]

Well, the state has given 2 Billion (yes B) back to employers over the last 2 years, and they are lower rates a point or two again...so yes, they were raking in the cash. Hopefully they will get it managed better.

It drives me nuts to see companies with NO safety precautions. NO hardhats with somebody working overhead. Don't even own a pair of chaps. Unmaintained equipment, rickety old bucket trucks that you know haven't been checked for 15 years. Old chipper with no safety bar. Pushing stuff into the chipper with their leg. Eating lunch on the chipper chute while it is running. Pruning overhead with a chainsaw on drywall stilts (yes I have pictures). Not tied in twice while climbing the tree., Etc....etc....etc.... And they are paying the same rate as I am (if they are paying at all). I kinda wish BWC would do spot checks and lower or raise the rate based on what they find.

Amen brother!!!!

 

[JRoland]

Driving in to work today to see the county road crew with a guy trimming with a pole saw while up about 20 ft up in a bucket truck. No hard hat, harness(that I could see) or ppe (other than sunglasses). No hard hats for any of the county workers on the ground either. On the bright side, the inmate crew following up behind them had all ppe for everyone.

 

[Philbert]

You can always snap a picture and send it to OSHA.

Philbert

 

[JRoland]

You can always snap a picture and send it to OSHA.

Philbert

I thought a lot about the situation over the weekend. There is a little background info I didn't put into what I had stated. I looked at my motives for putting that out there and talked with a trusted friend about it and came up with a plan to hopefully solve the situation. Thanks.