Newb grinder open to advice

[defensiblespace]

I just purchased my first stump grinder. It's a 1998 sc252 with less than 700 hours on it. I picked it up for just under 6k with a trailer. I figure I paid about fair value for it. It was missing the v-belts when I bought it, so I ended replacing all of the belts before using it. In less than 10 hours of grinding, I've already gone through the cutter wheel belt, broke the jackshaft and busted several of my 900 series Greenteeth on rocks. So needless to say, I'm learning the hard way. I over tightened the cutter wheel belt, but then readjusted it correctly. Yesterday, I made the mistake of moving the machine forward while the cutter wheel was down and directly in front of the stump. The teeth grabbed the stump and lurched the machine forward and stalled the engine. After starting it back up, I realized the grinder wheel wasn't turning. I quickly found out tht I had sheered the jackshaft in half. It cost me $800 at Vermeer to replace the jackshaft and put new bearings on as well as a couple other small fixes and parts. I went back out to finish the job I started yesterday. After finishing up, I realized the carbide heads busted off of 3 of my teeth. The area I was grinding in was super rocky. I pulled any rocks I found, but every time I went deeper into the stump, there was always one more rock hiding under there. I would love to hear from experienced stumpers what they are running for teeth in rocky soil and if maybe there is a technique for avoiding damage to teeth. Also, any general advice, tips or ideas about the 252 would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

 

[tree md]

I bought a set of aftermarket round teeth from Vermeer for my rayco a couple of months ago. They were like $4.60 a piece. So far so good. As I understand it you have to change pockets to use green teeth so you may be limited to using them unless you change over pockets (which can be expensive).

On rocks: they just suck, plain and simple. I will bring a stiff rake and a spade to dig out rocks from around the base of the stump but sometimes they are unavoidable. Just be sure to bring some spare teeth along. I have broke around 4 or 5 teeth in the past year on rocks which is not too bad considering I have probably done around 300 stumps or better.

 

[superjunior]

congrats on your new grinder! sounds like your first experience with it was less then ideal.. like md said sometimes the rocks are just un-avoidable. I keep a maddox (sp?) with me to pick the little batards out but unfortunatly most of the time you don't realize they're in there untill you already hit them. if they're big and in the middle of the stump I just do my best to grind around them untill I can free the rock up. Sucks to go through an expensive set of teeth for a not so expensive stump..

Its real important to keep your teeth sharp on these smaller machines, they just don't have the hp to power through stumps. Dull teeth beat the crap out of small grinders.. I use 1 peice rayco super teeth which can be re-tipped with new cutters, less then half the price of new teeth

 

[gorman]

Bring a sledge hammer too. When you get those rocks imbedded in the stump back off, idle down, and hit those rocks like it was your worst enemy. 99% of the time they will shatter and can pick them out.

 

[mattfr12]

I wonder how much difference there is in the green teeth from a smaller machine to there largest. I think that's what my bobcat is turning. I have only ever broke a few on hundreds of stumps.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?d5agic

 

[flushcut]

Small machines NEED sharp teeth plain and simple, bigger machines can get away with dull teeth.

 

[Treetom]

Congratulations on your purchase. And welcome to the world of stump grinding. I'm still running an old Vermeer 650A. Currently being reconditioned. Many hydraulic parts and bearings, etc, are available at places other than Vermeer for much cheaper. I run the regular stump cutter teeth with smart pockets. A plug for Border City in Michigan: good prices. Even the expensive teeth dull on rocks and metal, so I go with the economical ones. Work safe. View attachment 240220

 

[deevo]

wow that sucks for sure, sorry for your pain bro. I have done over 200 stumps since March big and small I still have the stock teeth on my 252, bought it with 10 hrs, have 31 now. Have dinged a few rocks but soon as i hear the well you noise noise when you touch a rock I back it off and remove the rocks. Mine still cut very good, I did buy the yellowjacket system and am going to put them on when the originals are tired. learn from experience I guess! :msp_thumbsup:

 

[OLD MAN GRINDER]

I would venture to say that all us stump grinders have been thru what u are going thru. i have had a pto grinder, a 252 and now a bandit 2150xp, when i first got my 252 i trashed the cutter wheel belt and stalled the jackshaft enough to loosen the allen head screws, luckily it did not break, i got rid of the 1/2 in sq teeth and put on the yellow jackets, what an improvement. i used it for another 2 years and got really good with it, had a buddy machine a new jackshaft for me, put on new bearings etc, keep everything greased...
Grinders are high maintenance as u are finding out, i am lucky down here we do not have rocky soil but i have hit rebar, t-posts, horseshoes etc and broke many teeth, keep lots of extras..

I am using 700 series reds on my 2150 and they do the job, did a 60 inch stump the over day in an hour and half, would have taken twice that long with the 252.

One other pc of advice get the biggest baddest chainsaw u can afford, i have a stihl 660 for the big stuff and a stihl 310 for the smaller ones, if i could afford it i would get an 880, the saw will save u so much time on the big stumps, b4 i got my 660 i would cringe at the idea of doing a big stump and even turned some over to another grinder with a high hp machine, not anymore i take every one i get..

Overall i think the 252 is a great machine, lot of guys running them, some have even updated to bigger engines, i wish u luck and hope u enjoy your new venture..

Bob...

 

[ozzy42]

A lot of good replies posted already,but i'll add my .02 worth too.

As some have mentioned the yellow jacket or green teeth design[both are a big improvement and worth every penny invested ] after you have went thru a few sets and save the best of the worst when changing them out .I like to throw an old set on when I know i'll be grinding in garbage.With the GT's or YJ's you can change them out in 10 -15 minutes.

One other thing.You mentioned paying 8 bills for a JS and bearings.You could have got the parts for 200-250$ max and put the rest somewhere else.
Belts bearings and teeth will be a constantly reaccuring repair thru the years .Get familiar with how it is all put together and learn to do it yourself.Paying all that money to the stealer will get old very fast.Kind of like a tree guy taking his saw to the shop because the chain came off.Plenty of info here if you need guidance on how to do them.

Good luck and happy grinding.

 

[defensiblespace]

I appreciate all of the responses. I might try switching to the yellow jackets. My greenteeth have about had it, but I haven't had the extra $341 to switch over. As for repairing the machine myself, I tried to get the broken jackshaft off, but couldn't remove it from the bearings. I read on another post on this forum that they needed to be cut from the bearings with a torch. I don't have that capability, so I took it to Vermeer out of desperation. Lesson learned. Just out of curiosity, has anybody tried the revolution cutting wheel from New River? I like the concept, how it has teeth on the sides. My first question, being in the Sierras, is always going to be, how does it hold up in rocks? As for grinding in these conditions, looks like I'm just going to have to really take my time and remove every rock that I can. Cheers.

 

[imagineero]

Welcome to stump grinding ;-)

Mostly we all learned the hard way I guess. I lost quite a bit of money when I bought my first grinder last year. Some random thoughts in no particular order;

Quote the job right. Some guys quote by the inch, no sense in that since square inch area quadruples as diameter doubles. Use the attached estimator to give you some idea. It has a range of prices for different diameters. If you know, say, that making $60 for a 20" stump is ok for you, then you can scroll across that line to see how much you ought to be charging for, say, a 50" stump. You might be surprised by the figure. Measure the stump at the ground, including root flair. If the customer wants roots chased out then I include the area that they want chased out. You may price yourself out of the market by this method, but at least you wont price yourself broke ;-) The other method I use sometimes is hourly. It often happens that you do the standard 12" grind and the customer changes their mind and wants the roots chased out after you've already ground the stump. I tell them I'll grind out as much as they want, and the machine rate is $200/hour. People sure get realistic fast at that rate about how much they really need to get ground out.

Damage control is the first thing you need to look at before even unloading the machine. Make yourself a checklist of things to look for - underground gas, water, electricity, communications, sewerage etc. Get familiar with how these services are installed in your area. First thing I do is locate the meters, and you can usually figure where the services go from there. Back yards are pretty safe, but look out for cabling for outside/garden lights, sprinkler systems (pipes) satellite cable if they have a dish in the yard etc. If you are grinding near windows etc, use guards. I made some up out of shadecloth and an aluminum frame. Stones can fly a long way.

Before starting the machine, rip out weeds/grass then blow around the stump with a blower. Its amazing how many times I've found things by doing this. Carry a shovel, blower and a mattock or a 6' wrecking bar. A fiskars axe can come in handy.

If you know it's rocky ground, price a little higher. That way it wont hurt as much when you damage teeth. I'm not familiar with your machine, but some machines have the option of not running a full compliment depending on the tooth style you use. My machine has 6 'stations' which are made up of 3 pairs of straights, and 3 pairs of lefts/rights alternating. If I had the multip tip or greenteeth systems which are all identical teeth then I could choose to run only 3 stations instead of 6 which gives your machine more grunt (like skip tooth on a chainsaw) and destroys less teeth in crappy conditions.

Best of luck
Shaun

View attachment 240475

 

[defensiblespace]

Welcome to stump grinding ;-)

Mostly we all learned the hard way I guess. I lost quite a bit of money when I bought my first grinder last year. Some random thoughts in no particular order;

Quote the job right. Some guys quote by the inch, no sense in that since square inch area quadruples as diameter doubles. Use the attached estimator to give you some idea. It has a range of prices for different diameters. If you know, say, that making $60 for a 20" stump is ok for you, then you can scroll across that line to see how much you ought to be charging for, say, a 50" stump. You might be surprised by the figure. Measure the stump at the ground, including root flair. If the customer wants roots chased out then I include the area that they want chased out. You may price yourself out of the market by this method, but at least you wont price yourself broke ;-) The other method I use sometimes is hourly. It often happens that you do the standard 12" grind and the customer changes their mind and wants the roots chased out after you've already ground the stump. I tell them I'll grind out as much as they want, and the machine rate is $200/hour. People sure get realistic fast at that rate about how much they really need to get ground out


Damage control is the first thing you need to look at before even unloading the machine. Make yourself a checklist of things to look for - underground gas, water, electricity, communications, sewerage etc. Get familiar with how these services are installed in your area. First thing I do is locate the meters, and you can usually figure where the services go from there. Back yards are pretty safe, but look out for cabling for outside/garden lights, sprinkler systems (pipes) satellite cable if they have a dish in the yard etc. If you are grinding near windows etc, use guards. I made some up out of shadecloth and an aluminum frame. Stones can fly a long way.

Before starting the machine, rip out weeds/grass then blow around the stump with a blower. Its amazing how many times I've found things by doing this. Carry a shovel, blower and a mattock or a 6' wrecking bar. A fiskars axe can come in handy.

If you know it's rocky ground, price a little higher. That way it wont hurt as much when you damage teeth. I'm not familiar with your machine, but some machines have the option of not running a full compliment depending on the tooth style you use. My machine has 6 'stations' which are made up of 3 pairs of straights, and 3 pairs of lefts/rights alternating. If I had the multip tip or greenteeth systems which are all identical teeth then I could choose to run only 3 stations instead of 6 which gives your machine more grunt (like skip tooth on a chainsaw) and destroys less teeth in crappy conditions.

Best of luck
Shaun

View attachment 240475

I love the chart. It's brilliant. I've been charging by the inch. This makes a lot more sense. Thank you.

 

[imagineero]

I love the chart. It's brilliant. I've been charging by the inch. This makes a lot more sense. Thank you.

It's not perfect, but it's not a bad start. You've got to interperet a bit, but it gets you in the ballpark. For single stumps I'm generally on the lowest line ($80 for a 20" stump) or even a little more. If there's a few stumps, I drop the rate back a bit. I feel honestly that with a small machine the rates for big stumps in that chart are still not enough. Like, even on the bottom line, a 48" stump for $461... it sounds like a lot, but I don't think thats enough for a small machine. I aim to recover $200/machine hour for my machine, which means I need to crack out a 48" stump in about 2 1/2 hours at that price. Unless it's a palm or a very soft wood I know a stump that size is probably closer to half a day for me.

Which is why I sub out pretty much everything over about 3', assuming access is available. I can get a sub contractor in with an RG90 or similar who can take a 4' stump out 2' deep in less than half an hour, and for only a couple hundred. Doesn't make sense to punish my little grinder and myself, spend half a day grinding and still only get it half as deep as a big machine can. Small machines are good for small stumps, and if the access is really that bad then you need to charge for hours, not for inches. Small machines can be profitable on small stups though (mostly under 2')

Shaun

 

[tree md]

I did one yesterday that was right at 36" just above the root flare (my36" bar barely got through the last cut). It had been partially escavated and the sod had been cut out in about a 20'x20 area. Had to chase large roots out in every direction. Root flare was exposed and everything had to be at least 4" below grade so they could lay new sod. Had to have a small machine to get into it in the back though a 36" gate. Gas line was in close proximity, that's why the contractor could not bring in large equipment to escavate. Did it for $450. My groundy had it done in 2 hours. Thankfully it was old and rotten.

 

[imagineero]

That's a fair price, for you and the customer.

 

[tree md]

Shaun, I am curious what brand and weight oil you are using in your Kohler?

 

[OLD MAN GRINDER]

Hi Guys..

Just some info....i use castrol 10/30 full synthetic in all my kohlers and others..
i have a 27 hp on my exmark mower and a 38 hp on my grinder bandit 2150xp, also
used it on my 252 b4 i traded it, kohler also has a new blend out that my dealer is
trying to get me to try, i think its a synthetic blend..

Sure wish i could get the kind of prices down here that you all talk about, i did a
60 inch white oak the other day 2 hrs fifteen minutes 200.00 and i was only low
bidder by 20 dollars, did a 40 inch gum yesterday and 6 smaller stumps 260.00, i
make my best money on the smaller jobs 10 stumps and under, usually can avg
100 per hr on them, thats about the best i can do with all the competition down here.

A foot size stump is 10 bucks down here and up from there, charge a little more if
i have to cut the stumps down to save on grinder and fewer chips, believe it or not
even at those prices i lose bids, told a guy yesterday 200 on 8 small ones and one
30 incher and he said i was too high, did it for 150, i hr and fifteen minutes so still
was not too bad, but thats what i am up against, when i see the kind of prices
grinders are getting in other parts of the country its enough to make a grown man cry..

Happy grinding everybody..

Bob...

 

[OLD MAN GRINDER]

I did one yesterday that was right at 36" just above the root flare (my36" bar barely got through the last cut). It had been partially escavated and the sod had been cut out in about a 20'x20 area. Had to chase large roots out in every direction. Root flare was exposed and everything had to be at least 4" below grade so they could lay new sod. Had to have a small machine to get into it in the back though a 36" gate. Gas line was in close proximity, that's why the contractor could not bring in large equipment to escavate. Did it for $450. My groundy had it done in 2 hours. Thankfully it was old and rotten.[/QUOTE

Hey Tree Md..

I have found it quicker on the large stumps to grind out the root flares up to the
base of tree first and then use the saw to cut the stump down low, it also gets u
into cleaner wood with the saw and doesn't dull the chain as quick, saves on the
grinder and not so many chips, learned a lot of tricks when i had my 252 that
save me a lot of time now with my 2150, hyd steering helps LOL..

Bob...

 

[husabud]

Sorry Old Man. I ground twelve ten inch stumps last Friday with my 252 in an hour. I was asked to leave the holes open and the chips where they lay, so I told him I'd take fifty off . $450 cash in hand and he wants me back to do five more. I am looking at twenty next week that should pull $600 or so. I am def not bragging, but at this rate I will have to get another grinder.


Greenteeth are awesome and disconnect the autosweep.