Newbie Alaskan mill question

[NuggyBuggy]

I thought I'd post an update. This project is taking longer than I ever expected. Since I can only mill or even see my saws on the weekend, and since I have young kids, every weekend it seems I'm trying to solve some problem or another. Last week my problem was discovering that my first 076 was pulling the chain at idle. After some work investigating and replacing the clutch springs and bearings to no avail, I discovered that the oiler lug seems to somehow be bound to my crankshaft. My dealer couldn't get parts for two weeks, but fortunately I had another 076 so I switched bars and chain. For some reason it takes me forever to put that chain on each time, I must be doing something wrong.

Anyways... this past weekend my kids and wife stayed in town for a birthday party. I took the opportunity to go up and see what I could do, even though the forecast called for rain. I decided to tackle the big log for fear that I might never otherwise get around to doing it. Fortunately, my old neighbour - probably closer to 70 than 60 - who gave me the log seems to have taken an interest in the project, so he wants to help any chance he gets, although he can be pretty stubborn. We cut the bottom off it - it was way wider than the rest of my log, then cut one ~10' or so piece off the bottom.

I bought the Granberg slabbing rails and attached that to two 2x 4 x 12s. Got to cutting pretty well, I made the first slab with less than a tank of gas but then right at the very end of the cut, as the bar was exiting, it threw the chain off. A few of the drive links were banged up a bit so that they would no longer fit into the bar. My neighbour and I argued a bit about what to do - I wanted to put on a new chain, he wanted to bang the old chain into the bar and let friction take over, we decided to put a new chain on. But after struggling mightily to put it on, it started raining, so we called it a day, after only cutting one slab. It took so long because the wood was not on my property and it seemed every 5 minutes I was hiking back to my place to pick up something else I had forgotten.

And boy, that 2" slab was HEAVY.

The next day, I got my other neighbour involved. He has a small backhoe, so we cut the rest of the log in half leaving us three ~10' sections, then hauled them off to near the shelter where I plan to dry the wood. The first section was heavy enough that he needed me hanging off the back of the machine to get it over a few humps. He estimated it to be about 1800 lbs.

He laid the sections on some stumps, and then had to leave so my old neighbour and I started working again. For some reason, this time I could only make it about halfway through the log before needing to refuel. The engine started revving really high before dying out. We were a bit deeper into the wood so I guess the cut was a few inches wider, but it still didn't seem like it should make that much difference. I had to refuel the 076 in the log so I could only get about 1/4 of a tank and had to refill once more. After about 3 hours of work, we only milled two boards, and we quit because it really started raining and it was getting mucky.

Again, this may be nothing special to some of you vets, but the wood really surprised me with its beauty. I think the rain did a lot to bring out the grain. Can anyone speculate as to species ? My older neighbour says white oak; my other neighbour thinks red oak or ash.

 

[BobL]

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He laid the sections on some stumps, and then had to leave so my old neighbour and I started working again. For some reason, this time I could only make it about halfway through the log before needing to refuel. The engine started revving really high before dying out.

I's say the chain just got blunt.

Be careful when the saw starts revving like that just before it runs out of fuel. This happens because the saw is running out of fuel and aspirating too much air relative to the available fuel - if the saw has been working hard and is already on the borderline of overheating it may even seize the engine. If it starts doing this, stop revving the saw immediately and let it cool down a little before it runs out of fuel completely.

Running out of fuel mid slab is a PITA. If you can find one there are plastic right angle adapters that screw into the fuel tank which enable the tank to be almost completely filled.

 

[Old Blue]

Way to go !

Your misadventures sound just like mine did. Always taking more time than you would think it possibley could. That and the fact that the milling falls to the bottom of the priority list after everything else, especially if ya got kids and a family. I suspect that if we keep a mental llist of all the stuff needed, that it will start going more smoothly and better timewise. A lot of the regular milling guys around here are good motivation for improving your game plan.

The wood looks really nice and the log has some nice size to it. Thanks for posting the pics. I think your off to a great start. :msp_thumbup:

Old Blue
Oppressive regulation with maximum taxation in
Kali-bone-ya

 

[Marcintosh]

I thought I'd post an update.

Again, this may be nothing special to some of you vets, but the wood really surprised me with its beauty. I think the rain did a lot to bring out the grain. Can anyone speculate as to species ? My older neighbour says white oak; my other neighbour thinks red oak or ash.

I think the hidden beauty is one of the best reasons to "have a look inside". I don't know anyone that has anything to do with wood that doesn't appreciate the beauty of it. Even the most mercenary sawyer will pull a board aside now and again.

Got an iPhone/iPod? there's an app for that :biggrin: Seriously! It's called I.D. Wood. I can't remember if it was free or I paid for it but if it was $100 I'd buy it again. I heartily recommend it. That little app couldn't tell me though if the tree you've got there was White or Red Oak I'd want to compare the (drier) wood to the image. I doubt it's Ash but, as I'm not standing there looking at it, I can tell you it's not Brazilian Rosewood. :smile2: If I had to though I'd offer White Oak but then again, it's a guess from miles away.

Also I agree with the "runaway" chainsaw revs. Lean out the fuel mix too much and kiss that cylinder goodbye. Couple of times? No big deal but now you know. As an aside, they do wail don't they?

 

[NuggyBuggy]

Your misadventures sound just like mine did. Always taking more time than you would think it possibley could. ...

The wood looks really nice and the log has some nice size to it. Thanks for posting the pics. I think your off to a great start. :msp_thumbup:

Thanks for the words of encouragement ! If you were to meet me, I'd be the last guy you'd expect to see running a chainsaw, let alone big ones. My neighbours have all run chainsaws for decades and they thought I was crazy when I first started talking about it, then buying big chainsaws. They are all impressed now :msp_tongue: And I'm getting a helluva lot stronger hauling that 076 and mill around...

I's say the chain just got blunt.

That would seem likely, except that I was running a new chain on my first pass that day. It felt slow pretty much from the start. Now, I get to learn how to sharpen chains...

Also, running the hard-nose bar was a little tricky. It definitely seems like there's a lot more resistance than with my sprocket nose bar on my little 250, but that's also a lot less bar. I also don't know how tight to set the chain - I understand looser than with a sprocket-nose, but I'm not sure how much looser. I set the tension pretty tight my first pass, knowing it would stretch out. It was hanging pretty loose after that pass.

I'm thinking about investing in a sprocket nose bar to run my 36" 3/8 ripping chains (bought some Carlton stuff off Ebay), if that make things even a tad easier on the saw, but the 36" Stihl Super ES bars listed on Bailey's don't list compatibility with the bigger Stihls - only bigger than 36" bars do. Do I need an adapter to run a 36" ES on an 076 ?

Be careful when the saw starts revving like that just before it runs out of fuel. This happens because the saw is running out of fuel and aspirating too much air relative to the available fuel - if the saw has been working hard and is already on the borderline of overheating it may even seize the engine. If it starts doing this, stop revving the saw immediately and let it cool down a little before it runs out of fuel completely.

Point taken. At this point, my neighbour was running the saw (I wanted to throw him a bone and let him have some of the fun, because he really has been very helpful). When the saw was revving I was trying to tell him to turn it off... but he couldn't hear me over the saw, the ear muffs, and the fact that he does what he wants to do :msp_tongue: Fortunately, the saw didn't blow up/

Bob, I've seen you refer to those elbows before and also seen you comment that they are hard to find Do you have a part # or a picture ? Do you think it's possible to fashion one ?

Oh yes. I forgot to mention one thing: this stuff is FUN !!

 

[NuggyBuggy]

One more thing... at the bottom of the picture you can see a splash of sealer that I had put on the end, and a few small voids. When I applied more sealer in the void, a bunch of insects started spilling out of there and dying in the sealer. I'm guessing they're termites... I should have taken a picture.

What's the best way to handle this ? Crosscut the end until there's no more void ? Apply some sort of insectide and let them all die inside the log ? Blow smoke in there ? Other ?

 

[gemniii]

<snip> but the 36" Stihl Super ES bars listed on Bailey's don't list compatibility with the bigger Stihls - only bigger than 36" bars do. Do I need an adapter to run a 36" ES on an 076 ?

Call Bailey's - they can probably get the larger mount.

 

[BobL]

That would seem likely, except that I was running a new chain on my first pass that day. It felt slow pretty much from the start. Now, I get to learn how to sharpen chains...

Some new chains have too shallow a raker-cutter-wood angle. ie the rakers are too high. This is even more of a problem if it is regular chain and the top plate filing angle is refiled to 10º but the rakers are not attended to.

Also, running the hard-nose bar was a little tricky. It definitely seems like there's a lot more resistance than with my sprocket nose bar on my little 250, but that's also a lot less bar. I also don't know how tight to set the chain - I understand looser than with a sprocket-nose, but I'm not sure how much looser. I set the tension pretty tight my first pass, knowing it would stretch out. It was hanging pretty loose after that pass.

With a new chain on a sprocket nose I mill about 2 ft and then check the tension, then mill the rest of the cut and then check tension whereas on a hardnose I maybe check tension 2-3 times during the first cut. This was one reason why I started playing around with a mill that tensioned the chain at the outboard end rather than the inboard.

Point taken. At this point, my neighbour was running the saw (I wanted to throw him a bone and let him have some of the fun, because he really has been very helpful). When the saw was revving I was trying to tell him to turn it off... but he couldn't hear me over the saw, the ear muffs, and the fact that he does what he wants to do :msp_tongue: Fortunately, the saw didn't blow up

Before I let anyone run my mills I set up a visual/hand signal that tells them to stop cutting and stop teh saw immediately - I used to use a simple hand up sign but I changed that to a time-out sign to stop milling and a hand movement across the throat to stop the saw. Remember to get the attention from in front and not to do things like tap them on the shoulder from behind.

Bob, I've seen you refer to those elbows before and also seen you comment that they are hard to find Do you have a part # or a picture ? Do you think it's possible to fashion one ?

This is not the one I was thinking of but I wonder of it fits a regular 076?
NEW STIHL TS 510 760 GAS FUEL TANK VENT ELBOW CONNECTOR | eBay

Oh yes. I forgot to mention one thing: this stuff is FUN !!

You betcha it is!

 

[mtngun]

I also don't know how tight to set the chain - I understand looser than with a sprocket-nose, but I'm not sure how much looser.

Very, very loose. The loose-ness is only a problem when you are beginning the cut, you'll have to take care that the chain stays in the bar groove and doesn't derail. Once the bar is buried in wood, then the loose-ness doesn't hurt anything and it reduces friction.

Do I need an adapter to run a 36" ES on an 076 ?

You need a bar that is made for the large Stihls.

Thanks for the pics.

 

[NuggyBuggy]

#You need a bar that is made for the large Stihls.
Thanks for the pics.

Hmm... finding a bar for the larger Stihls is proving to be a bit difficult. #

gemnii, I have an email into Baileys but would much rather buy locally - not only to save money, but because cross-border shipping can take forever. I also have a call into my dealer but haven't been able to get a hold of him since last week which is a little annoying.
I used Bailey's bar selector and the only 36" bar I can find that specifies compatibility with the 076 AND the same # of drive links as my Stihl Duromatic is this one:
Bailey's - 36" Carlton Premium Sprocket Tip Bar
(they both specify 104 .404" DL, so I am assuming that they would both require the same # of 3/8" DL).

Could I buy this bar and then replace the tip with a 3/8" sprocket and be good ?

 

[WadePatton]

on species: appears to be oaken in grain and color, but i don't trust monitor colours so here's the my favorite test for species: Grab a handful of fresh sawdust or put your nose to a _just cut_ piece of the wood in question. If the wood smells like whiskey, it's white oak, if it smells like wine, red oak. If you don't drink, find an imbiber and enlist them.

colorwise, white oak is more tan than red. also 1/2 again more dense and tough than red oak. either is a good challenge for the novice millster.

also, if it smells like cosmetics, it's cherry. cat piss = black locust or sassafrass.

red/white oak-red oak has a darker and deeper furrowed bark. White oaks, light--nearly white-not like sycamore, but lighter than most anything else, but mebbe ash and elm.
and often quite smooth.

Methinks I'm going to get a 20" and start cleaning up tops of our current logging op-mostly yellow poplar.

 

[gemniii]

<snip>
gemnii, I have an email into Baileys but would much rather buy locally - not only to save money, but because cross-border shipping can take forever.

There's a member of Arboristsite in Canada who deals on ebay, on ebay his handle is "thechainsayguy", he deals a lot with the larger stihls.

 

[Talltom]

Your chain jumped the bar on exiting because it was loose and got pinched. Did you use shims to keep the kerf open? Throwing a chain will screw up the bottom of the drive links. You can try filing them down so they'll fit in the groove again or replace the damaged links. I wouldn't recommend using that chain unless it moves freely on the bar. A solid nose bar has plenty of resistance already. I have a solid nose 24" bar and it's a PITA. I tighten it so that I can just move the chain by hand. It seems to cut OK but I know I'm losing horsepower.

The big plastic wedges are overkill for keeping the kerf open when milling. I use cedar shim shingles which come in handy for other uses as well. The bigger wedges are so thick that they don't go in very far and tend to fall out while milling. I save the plastic wedges and some bigger wedges I made myself out of beech to stabilize logs and for felling.

The bark on the log looks too thick for white oak; it may be red oak. Termites are white and don't stay in the tree after it's felled. They go back to their nest in the ground or die. Carpenter ants are more likely. They're 3/8 - 1/2 inch long and black. They do nest in the wood, preferring soft wood that has started to decay, like the hole in the center of that log where the pith used to be. They love red oak, which tends to get heart rot. No need to use insecticide or cut it shorter. Only smoke the log if you've got nothing better to smoke. Just cut up the log and brush away the bugs afterwards. You will want to trim away the rotten center anyway. It may go well up into the log. The semicircular split in the bottom half of the log looks like ring shake. If it is, that part won't make very good slabs. You may still get some good boards out of it, but you won't know what you've got until you cut it.

 

[NuggyBuggy]

There's a member of Arboristsite in Canada who deals on ebay, on ebay his handle is "thechainsayguy", he deals a lot with the larger stihls.

Thanks for that link. I had seen his store but not found anything that seemed as if it would work. Knowing he's an AS member, however, I have now sent him a message.

Your chain jumped the bar on exiting because it was loose and got pinched. Did you use shims to keep the kerf open? Throwing a chain will screw up the bottom of the drive links. You can try filing them down so they'll fit in the groove again or replace the damaged links. I wouldn't recommend using that chain unless it moves freely on the bar. A solid nose bar has plenty of resistance already. I have a solid nose 24" bar and it's a PITA. I tighten it so that I can just move the chain by hand. It seems to cut OK but I know I'm losing horsepower.

The big plastic wedges are overkill for keeping the kerf open when milling. I use cedar shim shingles which come in handy for other uses as well. The bigger wedges are so thick that they don't go in very far and tend to fall out while milling. I save the plastic wedges and some bigger wedges I made myself out of beech to stabilize logs and for felling.

The bark on the log looks too thick for white oak; it may be red oak. Termites are white and don't stay in the tree after it's felled. They go back to their nest in the ground or die. Carpenter ants are more likely. They're 3/8 - 1/2 inch long and black. They do nest in the wood, preferring soft wood that has started to decay, like the hole in the center of that log where the pith used to be. They love red oak, which tends to get heart rot. No need to use insecticide or cut it shorter. Only smoke the log if you've got nothing better to smoke. Just cut up the log and brush away the bugs afterwards. You will want to trim away the rotten center anyway. It may go well up into the log. The semicircular split in the bottom half of the log looks like ring shake. If it is, that part won't make very good slabs. You may still get some good boards out of it, but you won't know what you've got until you cut it.

Talltom, thanks. I did use the big plastic wedges to try and keep the kerf open. I had gone to Home Depot because I thought I had seen a bunch of shims for fairly cheap years ago, certainly cheaper than the wedges were, but I couldn't find any. I'll have to try again.

The insects I found were indeed black. How long would it take for ants to get up into the wood ? Because I looked at the other side of that log that would have been cut the night before, and couldn't see any voids. It's gotta take longer for them to dig a hole in a log, than one night, no ?

 

[Talltom]

By other side, do you mean other end? Is it lower or higher on the tree? They don't work that fast, and they do come up from the ground. Did they come out of the center or the shake? Based on the size of either, it would seem that there must be a corresponding defect in the matching end.

 

[NuggyBuggy]

By other side, do you mean other end? Is it lower or higher on the tree? They don't work that fast, and they do come up from the ground. Did they come out of the center or the shake? Based on the size of either, it would seem that there must be a corresponding defect in the matching end.

I meant the part of the log that would have been on the other side of the cut revealing the holes. The only thing I can think of is that this was the bottom section ... I cut off the flare at the bottom but didn't check that part as my neighbour said he wanted it for a coffee table.

I have to say, when we first cut and moved the logs, we didn't notice any bugs. It was only when I put the sealer on the log and some of it got in there that I noticed them. They were packed in tight. None crawling around the log. Hopefully they didn't get up much higher.

 

[WadePatton]

Y
The bark on the log looks too thick for white oak; ... Termites are white and don't stay in the tree after it's felled. They go back to their nest in the ground or die. Carpenter ants are more likely.

agreed on bark. carpenter ants are Ace o' Spades black. termites leave a ton of fine dirt in the wood, ants not so much dirt, if any-just holes/caverns. i'll notice closer next time. have both.

 

[Talltom]

Probably in the piece you cut off. Ants move very slowly when its cold - they stay where they are over winter unless disturbed. No matter - you need to cut the log to see how high the defects go in it. If you had a way to quarter the log, you could isolate the shake defect in one quarter and have clear lumber in the other three, but it is not easy to quartersaw with a slabbing mill. The pith defect will need to be trimmed out, but you can still get nice slabs by gluing the halves back together or, better yet, bookmatching the halves from the same side.

 

[mldrenen]

the bark and grain look like some type of pine to my eyes. there also appears to be a bit of pitch on the bottom right side of the crosscut. red and white oak have a very distinctive grain that isn't easily mistaken, and i'm certain that this log is neither.

what does it smell like when freshly cut?

 

[NuggyBuggy]

the bark and grain look like some type of pine to my eyes. there also appears to be a bit of pitch on the bottom right side of the crosscut. red and white oak have a very distinctive grain that isn't easily mistaken, and i'm certain that this log is neither.

what does it smell like when freshly cut?

I don't remember it smelling very strongly.