Nik's Poulan Thread

[Modifiedmark]

I had a bit of time after getting home this afternoon before leaving for the gym, so I took another look at the 306A I picked up at the scrapyard. Evidently, I either didn't look well enough at the P/C last weekend, or I knocked something loose when I pulled the muffler to have a look. It's trashed and blows less than 90 psi.

Well, you cant always find diamonds in the rough at scrap yards! Sometimes you do get scrap.

Probably good you saved if from a certain demise, someone (maybe you) would be glad to have it for parts.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Was that just a rattle can paint you found?

Yep about $6 and already had it on hand. :msp_wink:

Has a little more yellow and not enough orange to it. But who cares it's a freaking chainsaw. :msp_biggrin:

 

[machinisttx]

That's not good. I guess your going to have to pull the cylinder and see if it is salvagable now.

It's not. It would have to be bored/honed and an oversize piston used or bored for a sleeve. It's gouged deep. The rear handle and brace are broken, so those would have had to be replaced anyway.

Well, you cant always find diamonds in the rough at scrap yards! Sometimes you do get scrap.

Probably good you saved if from a certain demise, someone (maybe you) would be glad to have it for parts.

Maybe. I've only got about $5 in it.

 

[3000 FPS]

O.K. Guys I need your help. What am I doing wrong. I know this is a Poulan thread but I don't know anywhere else to get better advice form a more knowledgeable group of people. I did a major Muffler mod on the 38cc Earthquake, increasing its outlet area about 15 times what it was and completely bypassing the cat in the muffler. It starts and revs great with the H&L set at around 1/1/2. When you put it to wood it won't cut at all. I have adjusted the L to 3 out and the H to 3 1/4. It cuts great, four strokes out of the cut and you can lean on it and it has incredible power for such a little saw. I cut a large ash with these settings last week and even noodled a large round. Today I attacked a 24" plus downed old oak. I thought I must have made a mistake counting my turns out last week, so I did it again starting at 1 1/2 and ending up at 3 and 3 1/4 making sure they are full turns, same results. I now have around 10 tanks of mix thru the little Quake, the plug is a nice light grey color, no tan at all, I am running Husky synthetic low smoke at 50-1. Have any of you had this kind of radical carb settings after modding a quake or any other little saw? This thing sounds and cuts great. The carb settings have me puzzled. I am pretty sure somebody must have done something similar to a little Poulan at some time. Any ideas or comments? Any insight will be greatly appreciated. I think I will bolt on a stock muffler and see what happens. (I have a pile of these little buggers) It is the most restrictive thing I have ever seen, the exhaust outlet is about 1/8 x 3/8 breathing thru the cat. Mine is about 5/8x5/8 straight thru. Has a nice bark, the stocker could be run in a library.:hmm3grin2orange: Oh and how do you like my TS helmet score....$25...yee haa

View attachment 294391ts?

I have modded out a few Poulans large and small, open port and closed port, but I have never had to open the jets by twice as much after any of the mods that I did. Maybe something else changed on the saw or the muffler was so restrictive that it you had to adjust for it.

You say you have a bunch of these saws, well have you modded any of the others?

 

[3000 FPS]

no I have not. I have started a couple of them, that is all. I have never seen a more restrictive exhaust system. I am thinking that if it was tuned for the original muffler at 1 1/2 turns out I may have opened Pandora's box with my muffler mod. I think the only comparison would be a similar cat equipped modded muffler saw.

I don't think I would worry about since you have used it quite a bit and the plug seems to be showing ok. Also you can hear it 4 stroking ok.

 

[rms61moparman]

O.K. Guys I need your help. What am I doing wrong. I know this is a Poulan thread but I don't know anywhere else to get better advice form a more knowledgeable group of people. I did a major Muffler mod on the 38cc Earthquake, increasing its outlet area about 15 times what it was and completely bypassing the cat in the muffler. It starts and revs great with the H&L set at around 1/1/2. When you put it to wood it won't cut at all. I have adjusted the L to 3 out and the H to 3 1/4. It cuts great, four strokes out of the cut and you can lean on it and it has incredible power for such a little saw. I cut a large ash with these settings last week and even noodled a large round. Today I attacked a 24" plus downed old oak. I thought I must have made a mistake counting my turns out last week, so I did it again starting at 1 1/2 and ending up at 3 and 3 1/4 making sure they are full turns, same results. I now have around 10 tanks of mix thru the little Quake, the plug is a nice light grey color, no tan at all, I am running Husky synthetic low smoke at 50-1. Have any of you had this kind of radical carb settings after modding a quake or any other little saw? This thing sounds and cuts great. The carb settings have me puzzled. I am pretty sure somebody must have done something similar to a little Poulan at some time. Any ideas or comments? Any insight will be greatly appreciated. I think I will bolt on a stock muffler and see what happens. (I have a pile of these little buggers) It is the most restrictive thing I have ever seen, the exhaust outlet is about 1/8 x 3/8 breathing thru the cat. Mine is about 5/8x5/8 straight thru. Has a nice bark, the stocker could be run in a library.:hmm3grin2orange: Oh and how do you like my TS helmet score....$25...yee haa



View attachment 294391ts?

Some of the small later model Poulans have to have their carbs open that far to run correctly.
Don't fret the number of turns, set it where it runs right and forget it.
If you still aren't showing a tan hue on the plug, you might open it up another 1/8th turn and see if it likes that. You still might be a touch lean and it would be a shame to cook that little saw.


Mike

 

[Modifiedmark]

You still might be a touch lean and it would be a shame to cook that little saw.


Mike

Not a shame at all, but they need to be served hot on a bed of rice and covered with soy sauce and water chestnuts.:msp_rolleyes:

 

[telemaster]

I will answer your base gasket question.

In the top of the cylinder at the outer most edge is an area called the squish band. It is the area that is closet to the top of the piston when it comes up on compression. The squish band is intended to force the gases toward the middle of the cylinder where the spark plug sits.

So now what you have to do, is to put the cylinder on, with the piston without a base gasket.
Remove the spark plug and put a piece of solder in the spark plug hole so that it touches the cylinder wall. Have the solder facing in the same direction as the wristpin so that it gets maximum compression. Now rotate the cylinder by hand with the flywheel until you compress the solder all the way. I actually rock it back and forth to make sure I flatten the solder out good. Then remove the solder and measure the flattened out spot with a set of dial calipers.

The measurement you get will tell you what the squish is for the saw. In your case I would not go less than .020" of an inch and in fact I usually go for .020 to .025 on alot of my saws. If you have more than that with the base gasket removed your good to go.

Remember you must use a sealant on the cylinder base like, yamabond or something similiar. Do not use RTV.

Thanks for this info. I will save it in my files when measuring the squish. As for the sealant, you saved me a headache there... I was planning to use permatex ultra copper, but it's RTV.... so I'll use something like yamabond.



Bump: Anyone know the ring gap on a 245? :fingers-crossed:

 

[jerrycmorrow]

...Bump: Anyone know the ring gap on a 245? :fingers-crossed:

my research indicates the ring gap should be between 0.4 and 0.8% of the bore diameter.

 

[telemaster]

my research indicates the ring gap should be between 0.4 and 0.8% of the bore diameter.

Awesome. So, with a 2.005" bore and picking the happy medium of 0.6% I get:

2.005" * .006 = 0.0123" ring gap. That's less that 1/64 (0.0156).

I hope I'm not over thinking/complicating this, but for clarity's sake... you did mean between .04% and .08% which is .004 and .008 in decimals and NOT between 4% and 8% which is .04 and .08 in decimals. Correct?

There is also a pin in the ring groove on this piston. How does that factor in? I assume I measure the pin, then add the ring gap to the pin measurement... voila done! Is it really that simple?

Thanks for bearing with me... this is my first ring replacement and I am a noobie to all this.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Awesome. So, with a 2.005" bore and picking the happy medium of 0.6% I get:

2.005" * .006 = 0.0123" ring gap. That's less that 1/64 (0.0156).

I hope I'm not over thinking/complicating this, but for clarity's sake... you did mean between .04% and .08% which is .004 and .008 in decimals and NOT between 4% and 8% which is .04 and .08 in decimals. Correct?

There is also a pin in the ring groove on this piston. How does that factor in? I assume I measure the pin, then add the ring gap to the pin measurement... voila done! Is it really that simple?

Thanks for bearing with me... this is my first ring replacement and I am a noobie to all this.

do not take me as an expert in this in any way and please, anyone reading this who thinks i am is FOS, pipe in. having said that, this is my take. i found this gap range on the otto gas engine works site.
0.004 is 0.4% not 0.04%. just multiply by 0.004 and you'll be fine
my conclusion regarding the locator pins is you should increase the desired gap by the pin diameter. say your desired gap is 0.01203" and your pin diameter is 0.065"; then your gap, as measured in the bore, should be 0.01203 + 0.065 ----> 0.07703
that's how i understand it anyway.
also, when placing ring in cylinder for gap measurement make sure the ring is perpendicular to the cylinder walls all the way around. you can do this by using a piston to push the ring down. just make sure your piston is accurately marked. a little skew on the ring can result in a substantial difference in your measurement

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Awesome. So, with a 2.005" bore and picking the happy medium of 0.6% I get:

2.005" * .006 = 0.0123" ring gap. That's less that 1/64 (0.0156).

I hope I'm not over thinking/complicating this, but for clarity's sake... you did mean between .04% and .08% which is .004 and .008 in decimals and NOT between 4% and 8% which is .04 and .08 in decimals. Correct?

There is also a pin in the ring groove on this piston. How does that factor in? I assume I measure the pin, then add the ring gap to the pin measurement... voila done! Is it really that simple?

Thanks for bearing with me... this is my first ring replacement and I am a noobie to all this.

If the bore's not too far gone just throw a new set of rings in it and you should be okay...

 

[telemaster]

do not take me as an expert in this in any way and please, anyone reading this who thinks i'm FOS, pipe in. having said that, this is my take. i found this gap range on the otto gas engine works site.
0.004 is 0.4% not 0.04%. just multiply by 0.004 and you'll be fine
my conclusion regarding the locator pins is you should increase the desired gap by the pin diameter. say your desired gap is 0.01203" and your pin diameter is 0.065"; then your gap, as measured in the bore, should be 0.01203 + 0.065 ----> 0.07703
that's how i understand it anyway.
also, when placing ring in cylinder for gap measurement make sure the ring is perpendicular to the cylinder walls all the way around. you can do this by using a piston to push the ring down. just make sure your piston is accurately marked. a little skew on the ring can result in a substantial difference in your measurement

OK... I', picking up what you're putting down.. Thanks for the clarification. Also I should have looked at Otto's site... that's where I got the rings. DOH!

If the bore's not too far gone just throw a new set of rings in it and you should be okay...

The rings are not NOS... they are custom made and came 2.010" The bore is 2.005". There is also the pin in the ring groove, so I have some filing to do to get the gap correct.

Thanks again... this forum is an amazing resource.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

OK... I', picking up what you're putting down.. Thanks for the clarification. Also I should have looked at Otto's site... that's where I got the rings. DOH!



The rings are not NOS... they are custom made and came 2.010" The bore is 2.005". There is also the pin in the ring groove, so I have some filing to do to get the gap correct.

Thanks again... this forum is an amazing resource.

In that case you will have to do some filing, probably be best if you filed to the same configuration as the stock ones, leaving a cutout for the pin. I think I read somewhere where you're supposed to file from the outside to the inside rather than from the center out or sideways. Bore X .0055 in inches will work pretty well.

 

[telemaster]

In that case you will have to do some filing, probably be best if you filed to the same configuration as the stock ones, leaving a cutout for the pin. I think I read somewhere where you're supposed to file from the outside to the inside rather than from the center out or sideways.

Thanks for the pointers. I'll let you know how it turns out. A buddy of mine has a manual ring grinder, I am hoping to borrow that instead of doing by hand. We'll see though.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Thanks for the pointers. I'll let you know how it turns out. A buddy of mine has a manual ring grinder, I am hoping to borrow that instead of doing by hand. We'll see though.

Will the ring grinder make the bevel beside the pin? Most of the rings have a circular place on the end when they have the locating pin. I've never tried grinding a chainsaw ring straight but it might work. Dunno.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

my research also indicated you should only file one face of the rings rather than both. unless you're going for a cut out. the end result should have the ring ends at the same angle to each other when touching. that is, no gaps between the ends when touching. sposed to use a fine mill file and make sure you deburr the edges when you're finished. give it the "finger test". if you feel burrs keep deburring.
anxious to see how this works out. pix of the process would be nice since i am also looking to "customize" some rings. thats why i did my research; in preparation to do it. looks like you're gonna be my example. lol

 

[telemaster]

Will the ring grinder make the bevel beside the pin? Most of the rings have a circular place on the end when they have the locating pin. I've never tried grinding a chainsaw ring straight but it might work. Dunno.

The rings that came out don't have a bevel to them... they are ground straight. Didn't make sense to me either, but that's what they are. Sorry no pics to upload right now. To answer your question, I am not sure if the ring grinder will make the bevel. I don't think so, but once I get my hands on it I may be able to finagle a way to do it.... if it's needed.

my research also indicated you should only file one face of the rings rather than both. unless you're going for a cut out. the end result should have the ring ends at the same angle to each other when touching. that is, no gaps between the ends when touching. sposed to use a fine mill file and make sure you deburr the edges when you're finished. give it the "finger test". if you feel burrs keep deburring.
anxious to see how this works out. pix of the process would be nice since i am also looking to "customize" some rings. thats why i did my research; in preparation to do it. looks like you're gonna be my example. lol

Roger on the burrs. I'll take pictures of the process and post them once done. Might be a while as I have lots of projects going on and this one get's my free time... not a priority.

 

[Kostas]

no I have not. I have started a couple of them, that is all. I have never seen a more restrictive exhaust system. I am thinking that if it was tuned for the original muffler at 1 1/2 turns out I may have opened Pandora's box with my muffler mod. I think the only comparison would be a similar cat equipped modded muffler saw.

I am with Mike,set it where it works right and don't really care about the turns.But if you are like me and keep thinking of it,you can take a stock muffler from another quake and test it to this just to see if it will return on 1 1/2 on the screws.

 

[Modifiedmark]

Will the ring grinder make the bevel beside the pin? Most of the rings have a circular place on the end when they have the locating pin. I've never tried grinding a chainsaw ring straight but it might work. Dunno.

245's used vertical locating pins and the ring ends are square cut. The ring grinder will be perfect for fitting those rings.

Your confusing things.