Non-ethanol gas a necessity?

[Sagetown]

I don't care about Big Oil's business. I care about my lawnmowers, saws, weedeaters, generators, etc. , etc., and when I leave gas in them for a period of time I want them to start. I want the gas tank lids to work. I've had it with e-gas ruining my small engines.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

we got three different grades of ethanol here at the pump 87,90,95 i usually burn 87 engines run just fine on regular anyway.

 

[benp]

I'm lucky to have this by me and run it only in the saws. I wind up using 2-3 gallons a month during my heavy cutting times.

 

[livemusic]

We have a franchise here with many service stations that are now selling Regular through Premium gasoline that does Not contain any ethanol .

Is that all they sell or do they also have gasoline with ethanol? Do you mind saying what franchise name is?

 

[Sagetown]

Is that all they sell or do they also have gasoline with ethanol? Do you mind saying what franchise name is?

That's all they sell . Just straight gas.

 

[Whitespider]

You need to do some fact checks on your ethonal bashing.
1. There is a mandate but we are currently producing more than the current mandate because it's cheaper for oil companies to oxygenated with ethanol. So that means there is a free market for ethanol.
2. Big oil companies are the ones receiving subsidies, hard to believe that wealthy companies like exon receive welfare, but it's true.
3. Yes ethanol can be a little harsh on older engines, but new engines ate designed to run on ethanol gasoline.
4. Depending on your state the gas you are buying may have ethanol, but the gas company does not have to list it on the pump.
5. Ethonal supports local farmers who spend money in your communities, which generates taxes. A high percentage of gas comes from overseas and they are using the money to buy weapons to kill American soliders.

Check you own facts...

1. The reason it's cheaper to oxygenated with ethanol is because of Tax Credits and other incentives to the blender/oil companies, whereas the use of other oxygenates is penalized, or outright banned. That ain't a "free market"... that's market manipulation, which indirectly subsidizes ethanol via smoke 'n' mirrors.
And you're further ignoring the law/mandate that requires oxygenated gasoline in the first place. It increases the cost of gasoline, and actually reduces the energy content of the gasoline, thereby reducing fuel mileage... meaning we pay more to burn more fuel so we can pay more. Smoke 'n' mirrors.

2. When you give Tax Credits/incentives to oil companies and blenders for using ethanol, and Tax Penalize them for using other oxygenates... that's subsidizing ethanol by way of smoke 'n' mirrors, just as the above market manipulation is.

3. It ain't about what new automotive engines are designed to run on... it's about what the ethanol program costs the American consumer and the economy (that cost is hidden from Kool-Aid drinkers using smoke 'n' mirrors).

4. Iowa requires labeling on every pump... if your State don't, you're a victim of more smoke 'n' mirrors.

5. You're drinkin' Kool-Aid if you think ethanol is good for farmers over the long run... what's gonna' happen when this house-of-cards comes crashing down?? When that happens the farmers of this country will be the biggest government "welfare" recipients this country has ever seen. Gas comes from refining crude oil... yes we import oil, but we also export it and the latest omnibus spending bill opens up more export. Something in your claim ain't adding up... because you drink the Kool-Aid. We also export ethanol at a net loss... we have to... because our corn ethanol is the most expensive ethanol to produce on the planet. Government makes up the difference on that loss using several smoke 'n' mirrors programs... any way you look at it, that's subsidizing ethanol.

There has not been any subsidies to ethonal industry since 2011.

See above... smoke 'n' mirrors...
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[Whitespider]

Just a quick Google search brought this up.

That's a blog... not a news story.
A blog barely deserves the label of "opinion"... it's more like rhetoric.
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[cmsmoke]

Back to the OP. I use what I can get, which is E10. There are no other sources for non-ethanol near me, other than an airport, which I personally won't go through the hassle of buying from them. E10 goes bad quickly in a small container and by small container, I mean carburetor. I have found (along with many others) that if I turn off the petcock, or in the case of a chainsaw, dump the remaining gas back into a can and start the engine an allow it to run the carburetor "dry", I never have an issue. This goes for everything I own that will sit more than a week. Sure it takes a few more pulls on the chainsaws to get them to start from dry, but to me, it is the best method. I have a farm tractor, that if I shut down by the ignition won't start with the hand crank, just sitting overnight with gas in the carb.. If I shut it down by running out of fuel, it will start on the first or second pull on the hand crank.
I also have a general repair business on the side and have proven this method over and over. I make some nice coin cleaning carburetors and replacing hoses for those who are uninformed. I pass this tip along to every one of my customers and install in-line petcocks where possible. I have motorcycles that have sat dormant for 2 years that will start on the same E10 that was in the tank when they were parked and yes the gas in the tank smells terrible. This method works. I burned myself once on the additive trick, never again.
No, I don't like E10 or any government bs that goes along with it, but non-ethanol gas goes bad over time as well. It just lasted a little longer and didn't eat old hoses. It did however create what most called varnish, that was every bit as hard to deal with, given enough sit time.

 

[Whitespider]

E10 goes bad quickly in a small container and by small container, I mean carburetor.

Absolutely... sometimes in just a few days.
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[midwest_170]

That's a blog... not a news story.
A blog barely deserves the label of "opinion"... it's more like rhetoric.
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I'm not going to fact check everything for you, provide this so called subsidies ethanol gets. One other question, after you find out there are no subsidies foe ethanol, why do oil companies use more ethonal than required by the rfs?

 

[Whitespider]

...why do oil companies use more ethonal than required by the rfs?

I just explained that... because government pays/credits/subsidizes/incentives them to do so.
Government simply moved the subsidy to a different tributary of the river... smoke and mirrors to make the claim they've stopped subsidizing the ethanol industry... but it still dumps into the same damn river.
Government can directly subsidize ethanol artificially making it cheaper than it is, or they can subsidize the users of ethanol (oil companies and fuel suppliers) artificially making it cheaper than it is. The result is the same... the ethanol industry stays afloat via the taxpayer dollar. More ethanol gets used, the taxpayer funds it at one end with subsidies, and at the other end he pays more for gas that he must burn more of to receive the same energy output.
You're taking the screwing at both ends... and you're smiling about it while you wash it down with the Kool-Aid.

And you're still ignoring the fact that the RFS is what makes the whole shell-game work in the first place... as is the Reformulated Gasoline Standard.
If the RFS and RFG didn't exist oil companies/fuel suppliers wouldn't use any oxygenates, including ethanol... unless, of course Government increased the subsidies ten-fold or more to offset the expense with a realized profit proportional to the expense. Renewable and reformulated gasoline standards are a Government forced expense to them (and it ain't a small one neither)... purchasing, storage, infrastructure, man hours, shipping, maintenance, etc., etc., etc. Like I said, the taxpayer is taking it at both ends... the taxpayer funds the subsidies at one end, and at the other end pays for the added expenses subsidies don't cover at the pump.

It's a friggin' shell-game... smoke 'n' mirrors... ain't no magic in it... and it's costing us, and the economy, billions and billions.
All of it perpetrated by special interest and corrupt Government... it's plain theft that a minority get rich and/or gain power from.

And, as far as the jobs "created" by the ethanol industry... what happens to those jobs when this house-of-cards comes tumbling down?? It flat ain't possible for Government to "create" jobs... Government does not "produce", it expends... it-is-what-it-is.
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[Whitespider]

OK... enough... I don't wanna' cause this thread to get kicked over to the Political Forum.
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[spike60]

Only read the first post so I'm not sure what direction this thread is going but...................

It's worth it; buy it. Makes a significant difference in all OPE. New stuff, old stuff, all of it.

If you are a homeowner, how many gallons of fuel you are likely to use will not result in much additional fuel costs. One carb job or replacement will cost a lot more. And 2.5 gallons of chainsaw gas can cut an awful lot of wood. Many of my pro guys and landscapers have also switched, at least for their 2 stroke stuff and it has also made a huge difference for them. They burn plenty of fuel, but it's still well worth it. Not just repairs, but downtime and frustration on the job.

 

[Goostoff]

I use Ethanol free premium in all of my toys. Boat, snowmobiles, 4 wheelers, golf cart, lawn mowers, weed whackers, chainsaws, wood splitter. Anything that might sit for more than a month gets the same treatment It took me a lot of years and a lot of money spent on repairs and replacement because of rotted fuel lines, and carb problems to figure this out.

 

[TRTermite]

One concern no one has addressed is what water suspended in ethanol does to a cylinder as it exits the exhaust port.
It was explained to me many (20+) years ago that water vapor is like a mini sandblaster to the cylinder walls when exiting the exhaust port. The same mechanics (Bachelor brothers) strongly endorsed and used AV gas. I bought a 041 av stihl at their farm sale / retired and moving to town / 20 some years ago. Until cad kicked in I never messed with it I had it in a shed for parts. Normally use bigger saws so there it sat. Long story short The gas smelled like REAL GAS and the saw started and ran great in a few pulls I was and am impressed I have always tried to use E free fuel due to water suspended in the fuel, But the old AV gas has me rethinking a lot. I have 2 o56 magnum saws (I bought new and use quite a bit) that Have NEVER had the carb or fuel line messed with. That alone has been worth the effort to avoid ethanol. My favorite go to 056 mag has been used enough that at 125lbs. compression I am going to ReRing it with found on Ebay OEM rings. I am waiting on a cyl base gasket but for the record the cylinder is in perfect shape.
This is my experience with NOT using ethanol fuel in My Chainsaws.

 

[TRTermite]

Another note to my first post is that I have started Using AV gas in saws that I use for fun and/or may sit more than I use them. Sort of a piece of mind concept. AND A CHEAP piece of mind it is....no sea foam only the stabil that is in the 2 stroke oil. Forgot to mention the 2 bachelors above were Amsoil dealers and strongly endorsed it as well.

 

[Whitespider]

I have 2 o56 magnum saws (I bought new and use quite a bit) that Have NEVER had the carb or fuel line messed with. That alone has been worth the effort to avoid ethanol.

I bought my 026 twenty-three years ago or so, my Stihl weed whip and leaf blower a few months after that... I've never used an ethanol blend in any of them. In twenty plus years I've never had to do anything to them, however I have replaced spark plugs on principle.

My 1968 Sears lawn tractor has never seen a single drop of ethanol... I have had to put tires on it once, but have never done anything to the engine or carb.

Dad put E10 in my 30 plus year old Log Splitter once 5 or so years ago, about 4 months later I had to tear down the carb... had to clean it and replace the float bowl, float, inlet needle 'n' seat, and high speed needle 'n' jet. I almost gave up on it because I couldn't get the idle circuit passage opened up. Went 30 years without an issue of any sort (sometimes sitting for near a year)... 3-4 months with a dash of ethanol laying in it and near lost the carburetor.

Ethanol/water corrosion ate a hole clean through the alloy crank case of my neighbor's leaf blower... he's finally a believer in the drawbacks.

I've got a small bucket full of horror stories (actually a small bucket full of destroyed carburetors) from family, friends, and neighbors... most of them have come around also.
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[Deleted member 83629]

I work at a small engine repair shop and here is one of the many problems i run according to the owner the fuel that was used in this atv/recreational toy was shell 93 unleaded E10 the toy has been setting with a full tank of fuel and double dosed with stabil fuel stabilizer for two months it refused to start. the gas was sour piss and cloudy.
Here is the crap in the carburetor it isn't repairable and is going to need replaced which is a little over $300.00. I see the crap almost everyday in the shop and you wonder why i recommend ethanol free gasoline. Smelly sticky goo that eats aluminum and destroys rubber and if it has even a slight amount of water in it instant corrosion also.


Here is a fuel bowl off a briggs and stratton wood splitter that required a new carburetor no amount of cleaning or voodoo would clean it

 

[olyman]

he wa

That's a blog... not a news story.
A blog barely deserves the label of "opinion"... it's more like rhetoric.
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he was on here,,while back,,tooting the justification for eth fuel...................smoke and mirrors.....

 

[turnkey4099]

I see lots of complaints here about ethanol...I don't have any "E free" stations around me, so I run E10 93 in everything, and the mix gets stihl ultra oil...
my string trimmer/ back pack blower and sometimes some of the saws sit for 6 months or more, I never drain them or do anything special...its been atleast 4 years since ive done any carb work on those things, and no problems, and they do get used pretty heavily in the warm months.

Same here except I use the regular grade. Been cutting 10+ cord/yr since 1976 and haven't had a problem with any saw due to it. Yes, I know the manual says not to do it.

Harry K